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new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

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Comments

  • #2042
    Rufeo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Rufeo


    So should we wear masks and a helmet now that Dublinistan is infected?


  • #2043
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Rufeo wrote: »
    So should we wear masks and a helmet now that Dublinistan is infected?

    Yes but made out of tinfoil.


  • #2044
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,287 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And never recover? This will permanently kill China's economy and tourism?

    I don't understand how a virus which will be gone in a year or two will continue to affect China in decades to come.

    What China has done is the equivalent of us shutting down Waterford, Limerick and Galway.

    They can only hope it does not affect Beijing and Shanghai in the same way.

    The country is being killed over this. They are amputating their own cities.

    If it is not brought under some sort of control ASAP then things are bleak to put it mildly.

    The critical thing for China is to defend at all costs (which they are trying to do) Beijing and Shanghai. If they fall to the virus like Wuhan then...


  • #2045
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    So, in all of Asia, a deadly virus like this just happens to originate across the river from China's most advance viral research facility?

    You should apply for a job in the CCP politburo.

    Let's cut the crap - you know it is most likely this emerged from the Wuhan lab.

    Why people want to give every excuse as to why it didn't is beyond me.

    At the very least it is a significant probability.

    The onus is on the conspiracy theorist to prove his theory. So far, your proof is that there is a lab in Wuhan and an American politician said America still doesn't know the source.. but there's a lab in Wuhan wink wink.

    kaymin wrote: »
    Well if your looking for proof then you will be waiting a while. China is hardly going to be forthright about it. Point is it's not tin foil hat types that are making these claims. It's a plausible scenario.

    Right, it's an American politician saying "We don't know. But hey, remember there's a lab in the same city." and some Israeli guy saying the lab in the city probably worked on some viruses.

    Sure it's plausible. But natural sources, like all other viruses over eons, is more plausible. As far as we know, there is nothing unique about this virus that suggests it's lab-made. And it isn't some hyper-virus either. There's still only been one death outside China.


  • #2046
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    The chan chan man wrote: »
    Without a doubt. There’s a manufacturer of biochemical warfare viruses just outside Wuhan. This is their equivalent of a leak at the Ringsend plant!

    Does anyone seriously believe they’re shutting down their country and building a purpose built hospital in 6 days because of a flu?! This is going to be catastrophic if it reaches Ireland. Our health system cannot cope as is.

    Could they have possibly released it on purpose?

    You never really know how effective a BW could be, unless you test it in real world conditions... They might not be too bothered by a few 1,000 dead in order to get these weapons ready for a future global war scenario. They do tend to see the average person on the street, as being somewhat expendable over the needs of the collective national interests.

    Horrible thought... but I would suggest not completely improbable!


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  • #2047
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    The only thing this thread is good for is to see who I can tick off as nuts for future reference in other threads.


  • #2048
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Could they have possibly released it on purpose?

    You never really know how effective a BW could be, unless you test it in real world conditions... They might not be too bothered by a few 1,000 dead in order to get these weapons ready for a future global war scenario. They do tend to see the average person on the street, as being somewhat expendable over the needs of the collective national interests.

    Horrible thought... but I would suggest not completely improbable!

    Historically, when live tests on the Chinese population were carried out, it was by the Japanese in Manchuria.

    I don't see much reason for China to test this out on their own population. If it's a live test, it makes more sense for it to be another country.


  • #2049
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    And never recover? This will permanently kill China's economy and tourism?

    I don't understand how a virus which will be gone in a year or two will continue to affect China in decades to come.

    We'll never know the full story, but analysts have observed the Chinese government has bailed many toxic regional banks and SOEs to keep them alive over the past couple of years. They've also been public they will provide financial support to enterprises during this lockdown period. The capacity of the Chinese government and monetary authorities to keep absorbing these punches is limited. How limited, we do not know.

    I've also been to more than one Chinese mega mall (think Dundrum x4) where I'm one of a dozen shoppers wandering around. Granted this in tier 2 cities, but I can't understand how they keep the lights on. It's mystifying. There has to be a day of reckoning.


  • #2050
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭1641


    The chemical weapon theory is distracting people from the real cause. This is like the Black Death which was caused by an unusual alignment of the stars which occurred exactly again in December :

    "We say that the distant and first cause of this pestilence was and is the configuration of the heavens. In 1345, at one hour after noon on 20 March, there was a major conjunction of three planets in Aquarius. This conjunction, along with other earlier conjunctions and eclipses, by causing a deadly corruption of the air around us, signifies mortality and famine, and also other things about which we will not speak here because they are not relevant. Aristotle testifies that this is the case in his book Concerning the causes of the properties of the elements (1), in which he says that mortality of races and the depopulation of kingdoms occur at the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter, for great events then arise, their nature depending on the trigon in which the conjunction occurs. And this is found in ancient philosophers, and Albertus Magnus in his book, Concerning the causes of the properties of the elements (treatise 2, chapter 1) says that [I]the conjunction of Mars and Jupiter causes a great pestilence in the air[/I], especially when they come together in a hot, wet sign, as was the case in 1345. For Jupiter, being wet and hot, draws up evil vapours from the earth and Mars, because it is immoderately hot and dry, then ignites the vapours, and as a result there were lightning, sparks, noxious vapours and fires throughout the air. (2)


    These effects were intensified because Mars -- a malevolent planet, breeding anger and wars -- was in the sign of Leo from 6 October 1347 until the end of May this year, along with the head of the dragon, and because all these things are hot they attracted many vapours, which is why the winter was not as cold as it should have been. (3) And Mars was also retrograde and therefore attracted many vapours from the earth and the sea which, when mixed with the air, corrupted its substances. (4) Mars was also looking upon Jupiter with a hostile aspect, that is to say quartile, and that caused an evil disposition or quality in the air, harmful and hateful to our nature. (5) This state of affairs generated strong winds (for according to Albertus in the first book of his Meteora, Jupiter has the property of raising powerful winds, particularly from the south) which gave rise to excess heat and moisture on the earth; although in fact it was the dampness which was most marked in our part of the world. And this is enough about the distant or universal cause for the moment."


  • #2051
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Historically, when live tests on the Chinese population were carried out, it was by the Japanese in Manchuria.

    I don't see much reason for China to test this out on their own population. If it's a live test, it makes more sense for it to be another country.

    If they really wanted to test something like that you would think North Korea would be the perfect candidate.


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  • #2052
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,287 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    The only thing this thread is good for is to see who I can tick off as nuts for future reference in other threads.

    Nothing to do with the Wuhan lab then?

    I look forward to reviewing this thread in a couple of years.


  • #2053
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    I can only imagine what this thread will be like if and when we get the first confirmed case in Ireland


  • #2054
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Nothing to do with the Wuhan lab then?

    I look forward to reviewing this thread in a couple of years.

    When are you linking that CIA source? Are you holding on to it as some kind of trump card in a few years time?


  • #2055
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    1641 wrote: »
    The chemical weapon theory is distracting people from the real cause. This is like the Black Death which was caused by an unusual alignment of the stars which occurred exactly again in December :

    "We say that the distant and first cause of this pestilence was and is the configuration of the heavens. In 1345, at one hour after noon on 20 March, there was a major conjunction of three planets in Aquarius. This conjunction, along with other earlier conjunctions and eclipses, by causing a deadly corruption of the air around us, signifies mortality and famine, and also other things about which we will not speak here because they are not relevant. Aristotle testifies that this is the case in his book Concerning the causes of the properties of the elements (1), in which he says that mortality of races and the depopulation of kingdoms occur at the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter, for great events then arise, their nature depending on the trigon in which the conjunction occurs. And this is found in ancient philosophers, and Albertus Magnus in his book, Concerning the causes of the properties of the elements (treatise 2, chapter 1) says that [I]the conjunction of Mars and Jupiter causes a great pestilence in the air[/I], especially when they come together in a hot, wet sign, as was the case in 1345. For Jupiter, being wet and hot, draws up evil vapours from the earth and Mars, because it is immoderately hot and dry, then ignites the vapours, and as a result there were lightning, sparks, noxious vapours and fires throughout the air. (2)


    These effects were intensified because Mars -- a malevolent planet, breeding anger and wars -- was in the sign of Leo from 6 October 1347 until the end of May this year, along with the head of the dragon, and because all these things are hot they attracted many vapours, which is why the winter was not as cold as it should have been. (3) And Mars was also retrograde and therefore attracted many vapours from the earth and the sea which, when mixed with the air, corrupted its substances. (4) Mars was also looking upon Jupiter with a hostile aspect, that is to say quartile, and that caused an evil disposition or quality in the air, harmful and hateful to our nature. (5) This state of affairs generated strong winds (for according to Albertus in the first book of his Meteora, Jupiter has the property of raising powerful winds, particularly from the south) which gave rise to excess heat and moisture on the earth; although in fact it was the dampness which was most marked in our part of the world. And this is enough about the distant or universal cause for the moment."

    And here I was, thinking I might have brought this thread to a weird place... :P

    Instantly outdone... perhaps I've just opened the weird and wacky door! (oops my bad) :pac:


  • #2056
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,287 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The onus is on the conspiracy theorist to prove his theory. So far, your proof is that there is a lab in Wuhan and an American politician said America still doesn't know the source.. but there's a lab in Wuhan wink wink.


    How is it a conspiracy theory?

    China's most advanced viral laboratory is across the river from the so called 'origin'.

    It does not take much of a stretch to understand the potential source of this outbreak.


  • #2057
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Nothing to do with the Wuhan lab then?

    I look forward to reviewing this thread in a couple of years.

    Why is it so important to you to be right? What does it matter if in a few years, it turns out it's from the lab?

    No one here is saying it's definitely 100% not from the lab, the same way you are saying you are 150% sure it is. We're saying there's little reason to believe it's from the lab right now. We're not wrong.


  • #2058
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    How is it a conspiracy theory?

    Because it's very difficult to believe a member of boards has access to CIA intel that has not been make public yet.


  • #2059
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,287 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why is it so important to you to be right? What does it matter if in a few years, it turns out it's from the lab?

    It's not important at all to me to be right. And you have not been saying it could be from the lab.


    You have been making fun of what I have been saying and making me out to be from tin foil hat buffoon.

    I think it's almost certain it is from the lab, yes. But I have also said that it could be natural. Me saying 150% is a turn of phrase because I am confident.

    You are entitled to your view that it's bat soup or whatever.

    I respect that view but I don't agree and the evidence as it unfolds in China's reaction is trending toward my view that they know exactly what the circumstances here are.

    But each to their own.


  • #2060
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    How is it a conspiracy theory?

    China's most advanced viral laboratory is across the river from the so called 'origin'.

    It does not take much of a stretch to understand the potential source of this outbreak.

    But it does require some stretch.. That's the point. To believe your theory, I have to have faith in something I have no proof of. Until that gap is filled, it's a conspiracy theory.

    It's not across a river in the middle of nowhere. It's across a river in the middle of a massive city of 11 million people. Your leap of faith implies that anything that starts in a city with a BSL-3 or BSL-4 laboratory must come from that laboratory, but things that don't start in those cities come from nature, and we are swallowing what the CCP is feeding us for not sharing that logic with you.


  • #2061
    Darc19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭Darc19


    kaymin wrote: »
    What is stupid?

    From the NHS:
    https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

    Norovirus and C. difficile, however, can survive for much longer. In one study, C. difficile was shown to survive for 5 months.

    I'm not saying coronavurus can last that long but my point is certain viruses can survive for months
    This thread is about coronavirus.

    Coronavirus CANNOT survive on surfaces for any length of time. The WHO say a few hours at most.

    The scaremongering about this is phenomenal and the number of people who believe the bullsh1t ott rubbish is embarrassing


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  • #2062
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    It's not important at all to me to be right. And you have not been saying it could be from the lab.


    You have been making fun of what I have been saying and making me out to be from tin foil hat buffoon.

    I think it's almost certain it is from the lab, yes. But I have also said that it could be natural. Me saying 150% is a turn of phrase because I am confident.

    You are entitled to your view that it's bat soup or whatever.

    I respect that view but I don't agree and the evidence as it unfolds in China's reaction is trending toward my view that they know exactly what the circumstances here are.

    But each to their own.

    The Americans released the virus on the Chinese people and used the lab in Wuhan as a cover up.


  • #2063
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Darc19 wrote: »
    This thread is about coronavirus.

    Coronavirus CANNOT survive on surfaces for any length of time. The WHO say a few hours at most.

    The scaremongering about this is phenomenal and the number of people who believe the bullsh1t ott rubbish is embarrassing

    The other side is hysteria has actually probably done a lot to keep this contained. Left unchecked, there is very little doubt it would lead to a particularly deadly flu season. Thankfully, despite there being a senior Irish medic among the leadership among the WHO, he appears not to be from the "shur it's grand" school of Irish emergency response.


  • #2064
    Blud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭Blud


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    It's not important at all to me to be right. And you have not been saying it could be from the lab.


    You have been making fun of what I have been saying and making me out to be from tin foil hat buffoon.

    I think it's almost certain it is from the lab, yes. But I have also said that it could be natural. Me saying 150% is a turn of phrase because I am confident.

    You are entitled to your view that it's bat soup or whatever.

    I respect that view but I don't agree and the evidence as it unfolds in China's reaction is trending toward my view that they know exactly what the circumstances here are.

    But each to their own.

    You keep saying "across the river" which makes it feel like you're talking about a stones throw.

    Theres 20 miles between the lab and the seafood market. At the very least, quit the Daily Mail style scare mongering, it massively detracts from the valid point of the existence of the lab.

    And like others have said, please link your CIA source, or again you're massively discrediting yourself.


  • #2065
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    So, in all of Asia, a deadly virus like this just happens to originate across the river from China's most advance viral research facility?

    You should apply for a job in the CCP politburo.

    Let's cut the crap - you know it is most likely this emerged from the Wuhan lab.
    <snipped>
    At the very least it is a significant probability.

    Since you introduced probability... Here's a List of many of such labs worldwide.

    "According to data collected in 2010 and 2011, the number of BSL 4 laboratories worldwide is 38 [5], mostly concentrated in the US (10) and Europe (14). The official number of BSL 3 facilities worldwide is unknown, since most laboratories where research on infectious diseases is carried out and many hospital laboratories operate at safety level 3. Their number, however, is of the order of several thousands: there were 1,362 in the US alone in 2008"

    You're doing the same as the media. Looking to make a dramatic statement and promote a belief that won't be discounted... simply because the PRC won't comment either on boards, or publicly deny it being a bio-weapons lab.. and even if they did deny it, nobody would believe them.

    "In terms of specific interventions implemented, our analysis is inspired by the experience of an accidental release of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in August 2003 from a laboratory in Singapore [14]: a total of 8 household contacts, 2 community contacts, 32 hospital contacts, and 42 work contacts were identified, of whom 25 were placed under home quarantine"

    You have no evidence that it's a bio-weapons lab.
    You have no evidence that the virus was even released from the lab.

    You're pushing a conspiracy theory without any evidence to support it, and dismissing anyone who objects. Why not wait until after the crisis, and once you get some evidence (since there's bound to be an official international investigation), then promote your angle?
    Why people want to give every excuse as to why it didn't is beyond me.

    Because you're pushing a nefarious angle by repeatedly promoting the bio weapon angle. If you were simply saying that it was released from a lab that was researching such viruses, then I wouldn't be so bothered. But you're not. You're pushing the bio-weapon angle.

    I'm rather disgusted by the sheer amount of the rumors, fear-mongering, and crap thrown as facts (but lacking evidence) that the internet is spouting about this virus.


  • #2066
    zell12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,916 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    XNOoJG3.jpg
    https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/passenger-displaying-coronavirus-symptoms-taken-17674333?_ga=2.205402320.1592613411.1580633949-193808099.1580633948


  • #2067
    NewMan1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭NewMan1982


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    China is not telling the world the truth about what happened and the current situation.

    The US knows this hence they are taking decisive action now to protect themselves.

    No one trusts the official Chinese government position or their numbers.

    Why do you keep repeating yourself?


  • #2068
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    But it does require some stretch.. That's the point. To believe your theory, I have to have faith in something I have no proof of. Until that gap is filled, it's a conspiracy theory.

    Conspiracy theory 1- escapee virus from Wuhan virology lab.

    US$1 million bail set for Harvard professor Charles Lieber, who was charged with hiding China ties He was paid $50,000 a month by the Wuhan University of Technology in China and living expenses up to $158,000. He was also awarded more than $1.5 million to establish a research lab at the Chinese university, prosecutors said.

    Last month, a medical student from China was also charged in Boston with trying to smuggle vials of research specimens in a sock in his suitcase bound for China. Zaosong Zheng, who was in the U.S. on a visa sponsored by Harvard, is accused of stealing the materials from a lab at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcboston.com/news/local/harvard-professor-charged-federally-with-lying-about-income/2068591/%3famp


    More coincidence:

    Dr. Peng Zhou (周鹏), Ph.D., a researcher at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and Leader of the Bat Virus Infection and Immunization Group.

    His primary field of study is researching how and why bats can be infected with some of the most nightmarish viruses in the world including Ebola, SARS and Coronavirus, and not get sick.

    As part of his studies, Peng also researched mutant Coronavirus strains that overcame the natural immunity of some bats; these are "superbug" Coronavirus strains, which are not resistant to any natural immune pathway, and now appear to be out in the wild


    Conspiracy No 2 - Batsoup


  • #2069
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    None of that means anything.


  • #2070
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,287 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    None of that means anything.

    That's what you always say to anything that contradicts your batsoup story.


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  • #2071
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,287 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    NewMan1982 wrote: »
    Why do you keep repeating yourself?

    Because it needs repeating.


This discussion has been closed.
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