General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

Tomrota · 01-02-2020 02:52AM

antimatterx wrote: »

Oh my sweet ****ing God. How are FG third?

Have done nothing for the entire time they were in office. And did nothing to improve health, housing, transport. People want change. It would be refreshing to see a non-FF or FG government, but it’s looking like FF will come out on top.

Charles Babbage · 01-02-2020 03:02AM

theguzman wrote: »

Fine Gael were in Coalition with Labour from 2011-2016, they couldn't touch the HSE or Public Sector thanks to Labour. It was a terrible shame that FG didn;t get an overall majority in 2011 and unleash Thatcherite cuts onto the bloated public and civil sector and eradicate the unions and HSE properly.

The public service were well cut, that wasn't the problem, the problem was a new start. FG showed no indication whatsoever of having any ideas about how to manage things.

McMurphy · 01-02-2020 03:04AM

antimatterx wrote: »

Oh my sweet ****ing God. How are FG third?

Where might we start?

Irish Water?
Your man in Monaghan slashing the lad?
Maurice McCabe?
Housing?
Health?
Maria Bailey and Josepha?
Alan Farrell?
Verona?
Black and Tans?
Dara Murphy?
The homeless lad scooped up?
The autism slur?

Hard to know really.

Kermit.de.frog · 01-02-2020 05:09AM

Anyone who gives a vote to a FF candidate at this election ought to be ashamed of themselves and embarrassed after the ruin they led this country in to and the out and out in your face corruption they excel in.

Every time FF have been in government they have driven whole generations out of the country by the end of their term and bankrupted us.

I'll be ashamed if a party that ruined us only a decade a go is back in charge of this country. We will be the laughing stock of Europe and rightly so.

golfball37 · 01-02-2020 07:22AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone who gives a vote to a FF candidate at this election ought to be ashamed of themselves and embarrassed after the ruin they led this country in to and the out and out in your face corruption they excel in.

Every time FF have been in government they have driven whole generations out of the country by the end of their term and bankrupted us.

I'll be ashamed if a party that ruined us only a decade a go is back in charge of this country. We will be the laughing stock of Europe and rightly so.

I agree but the sad reality is FG are no better despite talking a good game. It’s been 9 years of scandals now leaving aside issues such as health, housing etc

ThunbergsAreGo · 01-02-2020 08:42AM

golfball37 wrote: »

I agree but the sad reality is FG are no better despite talking a good game. It’s been 9 years of scandals now leaving aside issues such as health, housing etc

Well they haven't bankrupted us for a start so that is certainly better.

Yeah FG haven't been great on alot of things, but health and housing were likely to blow up no matter who was in charge - no doubt they have been handled poorly, the children's hospital for one.

And whomever is in government next will see the scandals keep coming. What might have been a local thing or swept under the carpet before is posted on social media and becomes a national media story (for whom blame the government is the default)

Jizique · 01-02-2020 08:43AM

golfball37 wrote: »

I agree but the sad reality is FG are no better despite talking a good game. It’s been 9 years of scandals now leaving aside issues such as health, housing etc

Welcome back to the 1950s.
Mickser Martin in charge of consultant reports; Mary Hanafin at education, Willie O Dea in defense, a Cowen in health, a Healy Rae in ag, de Valera in foreign affairs and off to negotiate with the Brits 100 years after his granddad got someone else to do it.

Sir Oxman · 01-02-2020 09:41AM

The anger over housing cannot be underestimated.
Not just the 10,000 that make the headlines, it's the joe soap scraping along who is ridden sideways paying out up to 70% of their income to rent and not a sniff of ever getting the chance to buy if they want to, never-mind those who only want to rent - rent costs are simply not sustainable.

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2020 09:47AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Every time FF have been in government they have driven whole generations out of the country by the end of their term and bankrupted us.

Again, the country wasn't bankrupt during the last crash, it was in fact the banks were bankrupt, and not just the Irish banks, but in particular major European banks, but all is well now, lumping these bad loans onto the public balance sheet of a few countries has worked out well, all of course helped by our elected parties, including parties such as ff and fg.

giveitholly · 01-02-2020 09:51AM

Will there be another poll out over the weekend?

McMurphy · 01-02-2020 10:02AM

giveitholly wrote: »

Will there be another poll out over the weekend?

Irish Times releases one at midnight..

Latest poll shows a further slide for FG and SF in second - 3% error of margin - Times/Panelbase - 13% undecided

FF 23
SF 21
FG 19
Green 10
Lab 5
SD 5
SPBP 5
Rest 12

Kermit.de.frog · 01-02-2020 10:19AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, the country wasn't bankrupt during the last crash, it was in fact the banks were bankrupt, and not just the Irish banks, but in particular major European banks, but all is well now, lumping these bad loans onto the public balance sheet of a few countries has worked out well, all of course helped by our elected parties, including parties such as ff and fg.

Name me one term where FG left the country bankrupt after their stint? Just one.

Name me one term where FF left the country bankrupt? Oh wait - that's every FF government ever.

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2020 10:20AM

Wanderer78 wrote:

Again, the country wasn't bankrupt during the last crash, it was in fact the banks were bankrupt, and not just the Irish banks, but in particular major European banks, but all is well now, lumping these bad loans onto the public balance sheet of a few countries has worked out well, all of course helped by our elected parties, including parties such as ff and fg.

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Name me one term where FF left the country bankrupt? Oh wait - that's every FF government ever.

.....

An Ciarraioch · 01-02-2020 10:26AM

Andrew Neil demonstrating he hasn't a clue about Irish politics:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1223402712576020482

Kermit.de.frog · 01-02-2020 10:30AM

The Brexiters will use a FG loss as us somehow repenting and endorsing Brexit.

golfball37 · 01-02-2020 10:53AM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Well they haven't bankrupted us for a start so that is certainly better.

Yeah FG haven't been great on alot of things, but health and housing were likely to blow up no matter who was in charge - no doubt they have been handled poorly, the children's hospital for one.

And whomever is in government next will see the scandals keep coming. What might have been a local thing or swept under the carpet before is posted on social media and becomes a national media story (for whom blame the government is the default)

I agree with you on health and housing. The things they can control however they have not handled well and cannot blame others. Garda whistle blowers, Maria Bailey not being disciplined in a prompt decisive and transparent way led to association of Fg with high insurance costs.. there are endless examples of them not keeping the new politics promise of 2011 and it’s a pity

Fann Linn · 01-02-2020 10:55AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The Brexiters will use a FG loss as us somehow repenting and endorsing Brexit.

Are we supposed to worry about what that shower think?

McMurphy · 01-02-2020 11:26AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The Brexiters will use a FG loss as us somehow repenting and endorsing Brexit.

You were a cheerleadering Brexiteer, is that how you see it?

Water John · 01-02-2020 12:46PM

When the Trioka left the country FG made the choice to go back to old ways. They had a unique opportunity at that point to mould something new but ducked it.
Certainly housing more than anything affected them. Really no plan 4/5 years ago, that should have begun to deal with oncoming problem.
Murphy and Bailey did them a lot of damage too.

Snow Garden · 01-02-2020 12:47PM

KevRossi wrote: »

They were handed the country on a golden plate in early 2011 with a mandate to end cronyism, nepotism, golden circles, and to introduce a new form of politics in Ireland. They could have totally reformed the bloated HSE, chased parasitic ambulance chasing solicitors out of the legal system and made sure that when NAMA sold out state owned houses and land that it was sold on our conditions.

Instead they took the attitude that it was their time at the feeding trough after 14 years of FF and they carried on with business as usual. Any chance they had to shoot themselves in the foot they did, then reloaded, and shot themselves in the other foot for good measure. Nothing from the Mahon tribunal recommendations was ever introduced here, even though they spent years making political hay out of that tribunal.

They deserve everything they are getting. A clueless bunch of arrogant idiots.

(And I'm giving neither FF nor SF anywhere near a nr.1 in the polls before anyone starts)

This +100000

They had a massive majority and knew the state needed a complete overhaul. The people of Ireland were ready for the medicine.

But they blew it. We might never see an opportunity like that again.

Instead their TDs became greedy pigs. Murphy and Farrell and Bailey are the ones we know about.

Water John · 01-02-2020 12:49PM

The Trioka had done the heavy political lifting. I wouldn't say they should have slashed anything but implemented an economic and social plan.

If this co have not polled in Ireland before, they may not have factored in nuances that others have learned over time.

devnull · 01-02-2020 12:58PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

They had a massive majority and knew the state needed a complete overhaul. The people of Ireland were ready for the medicine.

But they blew it. We might never see an opportunity like that again.

Take a look back through history, when have FF ever not left the country in a state that someone else has to pick up through their reckless spending and blowing up of bubbles till they burst?

The developers and the banks will be right behind it for sure, there will be record house building, banks offering mortgages to all and sundry and lots of very rich developers and perhaps we will even have another golden circle of politicians, developers and banks, all mutually assisting each other whilst screwing the public over. That is what Fianna Fail stands for.

Fianna Fail haven't changed, they are the same irresponsible people they were before who thinks that the way to solve any problem is to throw money at it rather than getting their hands dirty on the nuts and bolts and making sure that the money is spent in a way that is really going to benefit the country.

The blank cheque mentality will be back where money is handed out on a whim rather than only handing money out based on substantial improvements being made and we'll be back to the strikes of the FF era where anyone who goes on strike knows that FF will give them what they want in the end and game that system over and over.

If people think that Fianna Fail are different and have 'changed' then you need to look through history. Electorate after electorate have fell for that trick and not once have Fianna Fail actually changed. The whole thing is a ruse, the sad thing is that the Irish electorate have short term memory and do not learn the lessons from more a couple of elections back at most.

When the electorate has a difficulty of learning the lessons of history, it's no wonder we have a culture of boom and bust.

facehugger99 · 01-02-2020 01:08PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

They had a massive majority

They had go into coalition - what's this majority you're talking about?

Charles Babbage · 01-02-2020 01:20PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone who gives a vote to a FF candidate at this election ought to be ashamed of themselves and embarrassed after the ruin they led this country in to and the out and out in your face corruption they excel in.

Every time FF have been in government they have driven whole generations out of the country by the end of their term and bankrupted us.

This us a slight simplification. It was generally a second or third term FF government that did this bacause of hubris and because people did not hold them to account at the intermediate election.

As someone said, governments are like nappies, you have to change them and for the same reason.

Podge_irl · 01-02-2020 02:01PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

This +100000

They had a massive majority and knew the state needed a complete overhaul. The people of Ireland were ready for the medicine.

I will have a very hard time ever believing that is true. The majority of the response to Irish Water was not about the shoddy handling of the set-up, it was a rejection of the very concept of paying. Broadening of the tax base and moving services off the books was exactly the type of thing needed and Irish people were having none of it.

We end up with poor governments because its what we ask for.

charlie14 · 01-02-2020 02:56PM

McMurphy wrote: »

Irish Times releases one at midnight..

Latest poll shows a further slide for FG and SF in second - 3% error of margin - Times/Panelbase - 13% undecided

FF 23
SF 21
FG 19
Green 10
Lab 5
SD 5
SPBP 5
Rest 12

The really interesting figure, for me at least, is with a week to go there are still 13% of voters undecided.

The underlying trend appears to be that people want change, (not encouraging for FG), but they still do not know who they trust to bring those changes about

I expect it to come down to economics with that 13% making their minds up as to who the believe has the most credible spending plans to fund them.

Snow Garden · 01-02-2020 03:15PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

They had go into coalition - what's this majority you're talking about?

Ah stop making excuses.

FG had 76 seat. Labour had 37 seats.

The closest opposition were FF with 20 seats and were disgraced. They were silent.

The FG led government could have reformed major problems in this country and got a better deal on the private banking debt that was forced into our national debt.

But Enda had zero vision, zero courage and zero leadership.

Gilmore made himself rich but destroyed his own party by tagging it to the Irish Water shambles of corruption, waste and cronyism.

The fact is that FG have somehow made FF look professional and honest again. Hard to fathom that.

An Ciarraioch · 01-02-2020 03:18PM

charlie14 wrote: »

The really interesting figure, for me at least, is with a week to go there are still 13% of voters undecided.

The underlying trend appears to be that people want change, (not encouraging for FG), but they still do not know who they trust to bring those changes about

I expect it to come down to economics with that 13% making their minds up as to who the believe has the most credible spending plans to fund them.

Just imagine the seat returns if Greens, Labour and Soc Dems agreed a transfer pact, and indeed if SF also recommended a left alliance.

FrancieBrady · 01-02-2020 03:20PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

Ah stop making excuses.

FG had 76 seat. Labour had 37 seats.

The closest opposition were FF with 20 seats and were disgraced. They were silent.

The FG led government could have reformed major problems in this country and got a better deal on the private banking debt that was forced into our national debt.

But Enda had zero vision, zero courage and zero leadership.

Gilmore made himself rich but destroyed his own party by tagging it to the Irish Water shambles of corruption, waste and cronyism.

The fact is that FG have somehow made FF look professional and honest again. Hard to fathom that.

It is very simple if you look at it without jaundiced eye.
FG and FF need one another on point to maintain the power swap.
It's more and more evident as each day of this campaign goes on.
FG had to rehabilitate FF.

boege · 01-02-2020 04:45PM

Water John wrote: »

When the Trioka left the country FG made the choice to go back to old ways. They had a unique opportunity at that point to mould something new but ducked it.
Certainly housing more than anything affected them. Really no plan 4/5 years ago, that should have begun to deal with oncoming problem.
Murphy and Bailey did them a lot of damage too.

I wonder:

Under the terms of Ireland’s three year bailout programme which ended in December 2013, the country is subject to two post-programme surveillance visits each year by the troika until 75 per cent of the bailout loans are repaid, a process that could take decades.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/troika-to-return-to-ireland-as-part-of-post-bailout-review-1.2392041

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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