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new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

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  • #872
    clever user name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭clever user name


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Wuhan is a major travel/transportation hub for China. The idea of closing it down during Spring Festival would have required some serious discussion within the upper echelons of the government. Closing it down without solid reasons would have pissed off a lot of people...

    This virus has jumped in severity rather quickly. At the time of the original disclosure, it could have been just another small problem that disappeared on its own. They gambled and lost. I could see that happening to many countries.

    I don't think most people here understand what Chinese cities are like. It's one thing to say 9 million people, it's another thing to actually see it for yourself, and then to appreciate the logistics in controlling them. And then to consider the way that such cities are organised, and the closeness of the countryside. It would be quite easy for people to pass a cordon in most Chinese cities considering that many cities aren't planned very well.

    Yeah a very small window of time to make a decision that affects millions. I'd wager that they still did it quicker than most countries would have. But that goes with your point above about the Chinese mentality when it comes to government. Most countries simply wouldn't get away with it. I've lived in three large cities here and been to countless others, and still get my mind blown by the scope of theses places. Never mind how you manage to seal one off from the rest of the country.


  • #873
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    frillyleaf wrote: »
    What is a wet market ?

    I think it just means that wild animals are sold there. Dont know why its called 'wet' though


  • #874
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,642 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I think it just means that wild animals are sold there. Dont know why its called 'wet' though

    Animals are butchered and then sold there. The wet refers to the blood. Don't go looking for images on google in work, or just before dinner.


  • #875
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    pc7 wrote: »
    Klaz are you in contact with any of your friends/colleagues still in Wuhan?

    I've never worked or lived in Wuhan... I've only been there for parties/weddings.

    Between the heat, and the traffic....Not a city I'd want to live in.


  • #876
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I've never worked or lived in Wuhan... I've only been there for parties/weddings.

    Between the heat, and the traffic....Not a city I'd want to live in.


    Amazing experience getting to live in China, very lucky.


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  • #877
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I think it just means that wild animals are sold there. Dont know why its called 'wet' though



    From Wikipedia : "A wet market is a market selling fresh meat, fish, produce, and other perishable goods as distinguished from "dry markets" which sell durable goods such as fabric and electronics"

    I have seen some video's on youtube with western people showing off around these places for the shock value. Its horrific stuff... blood, guts,fish, bats, snakes, cats, turtles all being 'prepared' in the open on market stalls and in some cases on dirty ground. Live animals being slaughtered on demand their innards displayed and their bodily fluids running everywhere. No sensitivities are spared and absolutely no hygiene practices even attempted to be observed.

    No wonder a virus developed. It might be a cultural thing, but it was too much for me to watch.


  • #878
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    wakka12 wrote: »
    How does it sound like nonsense? There is great difference in susceptibility to a range of disease within different human races and ethnicities
    The article you linked to uses a very small (8) sample group, isn't peer reviewed or original, and only refers to a single (55yo) Asian male donor for the main sample studied.

    You also indicated it's spreading faster in Asia due to 'this', however that regions and it's sub-region is the densely populated source(basin) of the virus.
    As you know, it's now starting to go global.


  • #879
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,256 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    frillyleaf wrote: »
    What is a wet market ?

    Wet markets were traditionally places that sold dead and live animals out in the open. This includes poultry, fish, reptiles, and pigs. live fish, shellfish, and frogs are widely available.

    Widely reported that live Koalas and bats are being sold in wet markets in China for food.


  • #880
    megatron989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 207 ✭✭megatron989


    bb12 wrote: »
    yes but SARS infected 8000 people between 2002-2003....this has infected >6000 in just a couple of weeks

    Don't bother. Some people here seem hell bent on advising against preparing for this in any way. Sure it'll be grand they say.
    Personally I will be taking steps to ensure me and mine can if necessary hunker down or at least hold up and sweat out a bad flu at home. So stocking up on some tinned and frozen / dried foods, hidration salts, whatever I can fit into the house. We already keep a supply of long shelf life foods at home.
    It's no harm at all in taking these simple steps, personally I doubt it'll be needed but just in case, I'll be positioned to withstand more than I could should I do nothing now.

    Think of it like the snow. They forecast it and the same lads here say it'll never happen. Then it happens and the local lidl turns all Lord of the flys. Now you wish when you'd seen the forecast you'd stocked a few loves of bread.


  • #881
    frillyleaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 801 ✭✭✭frillyleaf


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Animals are butchered and then sold there. The wet refers to the blood. Don't go looking for images on google in work, or just before dinner.

    Thanks, I didn’t want to look it up


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  • #882
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    pc7 wrote: »
    Amazing experience getting to live in China, very lucky.

    I worked in Oz, and the company I worked for had a lot of Chinese clients. Came here first as a Management Trainer, but didn't see much of the country, except for hotels and the trips to the offices... After a short fling with a female interpreter, I decided to stay longer.. :D

    It's an amazing country and I'm glad I got to see it before it become so modern. I'd highly recommend living in Asia, to anyone, especially if you're single.


  • #883
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    It's amazing all right. Amazingly ****ing barbaric.


  • #884
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »
    The article you linked to uses a very small (8) sample group, isn't peer reviewed or original, and only refers to a single (55yo) Asian male donor for the main sample studied.

    You also indicated it's spreading faster in Asia due to 'this', however that regions and it's sub-region is the densely populated source(basin) of the virus.
    As you know, it's now starting to go global.

    Youre right it is a very small study, but its something to consider. It's going global largely because of infected people from Wuhan going abroad though. There has been hardly any secondary transmission to local people in countries outside China, other than that case in Germany. It is spreading remarkably slowly outside of china for such an infectious disease


  • #885
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    UrbanFret wrote: »
    It's amazing all right. Amazingly ****ing barbaric.

    Yup. It often is. Also incredibly civilized too. It's a country of extremes.

    Have you been here yet? (not simply as a tourist)


  • #886
    frillyleaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 801 ✭✭✭frillyleaf


    Does anyone know enough about the health or age of people who have passed away from it ?


  • #887
    creditcarder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭creditcarder


    Deleted User wrote: »
    TBH, I suspect the average Chinese person wouldn't really lose that much with an economic downturn. Salaries are typically quite low (few above the 5k mark) outside of the Tier 1 cities, as is the general cost of living. And so the average Chinese person tends to live a rather frugal lifestyle with their money going towards "face" items. I would imagine we'd just see a massive reduction of foreign products being bought, and a return to the cheaper lifestyle.

    It's the rich/wealthy that would be affected the most.

    As for unrest, again I wouldn't be too quick to imagine a harsh attitude against Xi. He's got massive support from the "peasants" and lower middle class. A degree of government support to maintain their existing lives would likely offset any real issues. More likely, criticism would be turned towards external targets, such as Japan/US/ foreigners in general. There would be a lot of people who would accept separating the issues of an economic downturn, and the actual virus itself.

    TBH The government has a lot of ways to swing public opinion in China. It really depends on just how severe the cost in life is from the virus, and even then, many Chinese are very flippant about such things. Life is cheap is a common attitude when it doesn't directly affect them..


    I agree with what you are saying, and I honestly don't judge the chinese people too harshly.



    But, I think Xi made a big mistake going after the 'Oligarchal' (does that term even fit China I wonder) Chinese by limiting passports and making them nervous that there will be a new Mao. Those people are some tough customers that won't fight fair and they remember the bad days. I doubt he will be killed, but he could be deemed inconsequential and his power limited quite quickly.


  • #888
    creditcarder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭creditcarder


    wakka12 wrote: »
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.26.919985v1.full
    Asian people may be much more susceptible to the coronavirus than people of european or african descent, may explain why it is spreading so much faster there


    I am sorry, but that is the most suspicious thing ever :O I really hope a government wasn't stupid enough to start this malarkey.



    Also, as a side note will this fix China's ticking time bomb of pensions? I do not for a second believe that they would spread a disease for that purpose, but just something to think of.


  • #889
    clever user name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭clever user name


    frillyleaf wrote: »
    Does anyone know enough about the health or age of people who have passed away from it ?

    As of yesterday, the youngest patient was 34 I think. I don't know about the new new numbers released today, haven't seen the demographics for that.


  • #890
    creditcarder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭creditcarder


    volchitsa wrote: »
    The rest of your post makes sense, but the bit in bold puzzles me: I'd understand it if it weren't for the one child policy, but surely now that most people will have one child and one grandchild, there has to have been a corresponding change in social attitudes?

    Even if they don't care about their neighbours' child dying, wouldn't you expect there to be widespread protest about a high deathrate precisely because their own children are also at risk?


    It's the same in Eastern Europe. When the food is scarce, the government dangerous, you are going to look after your own.


  • #891
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    wakka12 wrote: »
    It is spreading remarkably slowly outside of china for such an infectious disease
    Simply due to awareness, remember this was kept under wraps for a few weeks in Hubei, some folks were silenced or arrested for 'gossip' when it started to emerge.

    The next few weeks will be interesting, although with flight suspensions and states such as Australia placing people in 14day quarantine, should help slow it somewhat.

    The biggest danger is dense <2nd world places such as Cairo, Dhaka, Mexico(city), São Paulo, Delhi, Mumbai etc. All with 20m in their cities.
    Even Lagos, Lahore (and another x20) with 10-20m will be problematic.


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  • #892
    creditcarder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭creditcarder


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Traditional Chinese culture also provides a host of ways for them to keep control. People seem to disregard what China was like under the Nationalists and again, the Empire. They've got thousand of years of social programming, and the Government knows how to pull those strings without ever showing the fist. It's just when they get frightened that they switch to the more obvious forms of oppression.


    I think the government has every reason to be frightened. They have 1.6 Billion people who, historically, don't really complain but just instantly get on attack mode. It's kind of interesting socially to have rulers be so nervous about the masses :P



    Again, I could be wrong as my knowledge only really comes from a passing interest.


  • #893
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,642 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »
    The biggest danger is dense <2nd world places such as Cairo, Dhaka, Mexico(city), São Paulo, Delhi, Mumbai etc. All with 20m in their cities.
    Even Lagos, Lahore (and another x20) with 10-20m will be problematic.

    Yeah, between their dense populations and aversion to hygiene, it could be very bad if it hit those cities in an major way.


  • #894
    creditcarder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭creditcarder


    megatron989 wrote: »
    Don't bother. Some people here seem hell bent on advising against preparing for this in any way. Sure it'll be grand they say.
    Personally I will be taking steps to ensure me and mine can if necessary hunker down or at least hold up and sweat out a bad flu at home. So stocking up on some tinned and frozen / dried foods, hidration salts, whatever I can fit into the house. We already keep a supply of long shelf life foods at home.
    It's no harm at all in taking these simple steps, personally I doubt it'll be needed but just in case, I'll be positioned to withstand more than I could should I do nothing now.

    Think of it like the snow. They forecast it and the same lads here say it'll never happen. Then it happens and the local lidl turns all Lord of the flys. Now you wish when you'd seen the forecast you'd stocked a few loves of bread.


    Good idea.


  • #895
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    creditcarder wrote: »
    I agree with what you are saying, and I honestly don't judge the chinese people too harshly.

    Me neither. Many posters here on boards seem to think the whole world revolves around western logic and morality, as if they're universal concepts (or that those not involved in their creation, automatically accepted them). They'll get a nasty surprise when/if they ever spend time in a non-western non-first world country. (although I suspect it'll just make them feel superior)

    Once I leave China for good, then I'll consider them in a more "balanced" way... however, I do live there and my work places me closely with many government officials.. so I tend to avoid being involved in most negative discussions.
    But, I think Xi made a big mistake going after the 'Oligarchal' (does that term even fit China I wonder) Chinese by limiting passports and making them nervous that there will be a new Mao. Those people are some tough customers that won't fight fair and they remember the bad days. I doubt he will be killed, but he could be deemed inconsequential and his power limited quite quickly.

    Xi retains the support of the military, and nobody will replace Xi without their support. Xi also has been rather selective in his corruption drive, hitting those already in the public eye. However the truly powerful in China know not to show themselves or their power publicly... so he hasn't really been chipping at the true powers in China. The power dynamic hasn't really changed all that much... Xi's effort to replace Mao is more of a "face" gesture rather than a move for absolute power.


  • #896
    highgiant1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭highgiant1985


    WHO update live now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx6FzezCPXM


  • #897
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    If you haven't already, give up the aul fags (smoking).


  • #898
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,032 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    WHO laying it on thick supporting the CCP in this press conference.


    Also dude is Irish which is nice i suppose


  • #899
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,032 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Whats worrying is they are reconvening the council tomorrow to decide if its a global emergency.


  • #900
    clever user name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 537 ✭✭✭clever user name


    Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »
    If you haven't already, give up the aul fags (smoking).

    Try sitting sitting in your apartment for a week :pac: Going out for a fag is like is going for a night on the town.


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  • #901
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »
    Simply due to awareness, remember this was kept under wraps for a few weeks in Hubei, some folks were silenced or arrested for 'gossip' when it started to emerge.

    I don't buy it. Awareness of what? We still don't have accurate listings of the full symptoms and people can be infectious without showing any signs of the virus.

    I'd say it's more to do with nutrition and availability of quality medicine. Typical Chinese food, the quality of ingredients and the way it's cooked doesn't preserve much in the way of Vitamins. Which is why you'll find Chinese students getting sick often during a semester period. The amount of pollution in Chinese cities is also likely a factor in lowering their immune systems ability to fight off an infection. Plus the average availability of Medicine is based on Traditional herbal medicine, and honestly, it's awful.

    Whereas anyone in a non-Asian country apart from Japan/Korea is likely to have the nutritional basis to support their natural defenses against the virus. Anyone in the west getting a painkiller, or similar to deal with the flu would be receiving better medicine than in China even without going to a GP or hospital.


This discussion has been closed.
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