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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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    #4592
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    God the whole team were awful against Japan - you can't hang that on PoM.
    Probably the only one who turned up and put in a shift against the ABs


    Im not hanging that on POM....Im just responding to your post saying how good he was at WC.....he wasn't. No player put in a "shift" against NZ.....it was an entire team failure


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    #4593
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,625 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    Your memory is wrong - he turned up against the ABs the rest of the pack didn't. Watch it again.

    he was at best - bang average - not good eneogh right now to play for Ireland - hasnt been for over a year -


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    #4594
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,960 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    What a stupid comment - no one said that.
    PoM has certain attributes
    Excellent at turnovers
    Excllent at lineout steals
    A great captain and leader

    He was Ireland's best player in the two WC games against Scotland and the ABs
    POM was subbed off after 27 minutes for a HIA against Scotland.


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    #4595
    daddy pig
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭daddy pig


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    God the whole team were awful against Japan - you can't hang that on PoM.
    Probably the only one who turned up and put in a shift against the ABs

    Have you forgotten his 20 minute man of the match performance against Scotland already?


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    #4596
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    God the whole team were awful against Japan - you can't hang that on PoM.
    Probably the only one who turned up and put in a shift against the ABs

    hummmm

    subbed off after 57 minutes..... with his replacement carrying more and made more meters in the 23 minutes he was on.

    Everyone was blown away on that day.


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    #4597
    moritz1234
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭moritz1234


    Clegg wrote: »
    POM was subbed off after 27 minutes for a HIA against Scotland.

    Watch the game again - he was world class up until the HIA

    Lot of people with memory loss on here.


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    #4598
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    That group was not difficult. Osprey was an automatic 10 points. Racing will be out at the Qtr's. Sarries played the B team for majority of tournament and still qualified. That included the Sarries B team playing nearly an entire match with 14 players away from home and winning.

    Ospreys was an automatic 10 Points for everyone not just Munster. It was the hardest pool in the competition


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    #4599
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Ospreys was an automatic 10 Points for everyone not just Munster. It was the hardest pool in the competition


    Sarries didn't get 10 out of them and still qualified......

    This is Ireland thread anyway!! its done and dusted now


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    #4600
    moritz1234
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭moritz1234


    I would have PoM as Captain

    I really hope Sexton doesn't start berating players on the pitch again instead of encouraging them (which is his style i.e. to have a go at a player and moan at them).


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    #4601
    daddy pig
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭daddy pig


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Ospreys was an automatic 10 Points for everyone not just Munster. It was the hardest pool in the competition

    It was the hardest pool for Munster because they are bang average.

    Racing strolled it and qualified with a game in hand.
    Saracens literally threw 2 games and still qualified.


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    #4602
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Im not saying POM is a bad player or anything. I said at start of WC it might have been an option to start him at 7 but playing him at 6 and Stander at 8 was just not working......

    But since the WC, VDF really in my opinion nailed the 7 jersey with his displays

    Playing Stander at 8 hasn't worked for a while now so swapping him to 6 and playing Deegan or Doris at 8 just makes sense, again my personal opinion. Not sure what POM can bring from the bench, Wood's point about having a captain on the bench would be the only reason I would see.....I would prefer to have a more dynamic player to come on. POM is not going to come on with 20 mins and make a couple of breaks against a tired defence


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    #4603
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,960 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    Watch the game again - he was world class up until the HIA

    Lot of people with memory loss on here.

    I fail to see how someone who was on the pitch for 27 minutes could be motm.


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    #4604
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    this is what you should be actually taking from that article:

    I don’t need to take anything else from that article except that Doris has impressive lineout number for Leinster albeit against lesser opposition, hopefully he brings that to the green jersey because there is no doubting our Lino it could be weakened badly without POM.

    I don’t have an issue with POM being dropped, I can see his skills but also his weaknesses. He brings a toughness and never say die attitude that doesn’t take a backward step, He can jackal very well and we may lose some of that but gain a better carrier. CJ also has weaknesses to his game, as does any other player in the pack.

    A back row is about balance, maybe CJ at 6 and Doris at 8 is more balanced. Time will tell.


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    #4605
    moritz1234
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭moritz1234


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Im not saying POM is a bad player or anything. I said at start of WC it might have been an option to start him at 7 but playing him at 6 and Stander at 8 was just not working......

    But since the WC, VDF really in my opinion nailed the 7 jersey with his displays

    Playing Stander at 8 hasn't worked for a while now so swapping him to 6 and playing Deegan or Doris at 8 just makes sense, again my personal opinion. Not sure what POM can bring from the bench, Wood's point about having a captain on the bench would be the only reason I would see.....I would prefer to have a more dynamic player to come on. POM is not going to come on with 20 mins and make a couple of breaks against a tired defence

    Nothing against VDF
    I haven't seen him play this year as I don't watch Leinster.
    He is a good player


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    #4606
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    daddy pig wrote: »
    It was the hardest pool for Munster because they are bang average.

    Racing strolled it and qualified with a game in hand.
    Saracens literally threw 2 games and still qualified.

    You can add whatever caveat you want to it in a childish attempt to rise a provincial back and forth, but it was the hardest pool in the competition.


    And if racing “strolled it” they wouldn’t be in an away QF


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    #4607
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Aaaaaaaaaaaand we're back to pages of POM again.


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    #4608
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Aaaaaaaaaaaand we're back to pages of POM again.

    well to be fair, if hes dropped from the 23 it will be the biggest call in a long time and obviously will be a point of discussion


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    #4609
    The Rooster
    Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    I would have PoM as Captain

    I really hope Sexton doesn't start berating players on the pitch again instead of encouraging them (which is his style i.e. to have a go at a player and moan at them).
    If the decision is to go with youth at 8 (one of the Leinster lads) and experience at 6 (CJ or POM), do you pick O'Mahony at 6 and Stander on the bench?


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    #4610
    moritz1234
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭moritz1234


    The Rooster wrote: »
    If the decision is to go with youth at 8 (one of the Leinster lads) and experience at 6 (CJ or POM), do you pick O'Mahony at 6 and Stander on the bench?

    That should have been the move - Stander has more impact and covers 6 and 8


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    #4611
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Aaaaaaaaaaaand we're back to pages of POM again.


    The back row is critical to the way Ireland play. When we have a good balanced back row we seem to be a lot more competitive. That's why I find it is often a hot topic for debate.


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    #4612
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    The Rooster wrote: »
    If the decision is to go with youth at 8 (one of the Leinster lads) and experience at 6 (CJ or POM), do you pick O'Mahony at 6 and Stander on the bench?

    you cannot have a 6 whos carrying and tackling stats are as poor as POMs

    For me its no question that Stander gets picked ahead of POM


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    #4613
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    well to be fair, if hes dropped from the 23 it will be the biggest call in a long time and obviously will be a point of discussion

    Yeah but its been done to death, resurrected, done to death again, flogged for good measure and the dissected, put back together and is being done again. And if hes dropped that'll surely breath yet new life into it all over again.

    POMs form has been poor. Not as bad as has been made out, but if hes dropped I doubt many could really argue effectively against it. Stander is a better 6 and Deegan offers more coverage and impact off the bench. If hes selected then it depends on where and with who, but could equally make sense.


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    #4614
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,727 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    Do we still have that extra lineout threat ?
    In PoM 7 games for Munster this season
    14 Lineout wins
    8 Lineout steals


    This is the post that started the conversation. It wasn't saying PoM should be in the team. It was asking if we still have the lineout threat. Its a valid question when we talk about bringing balance to the back row.


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    #4615
    daddy pig
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭daddy pig


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    You can add whatever caveat you want to it in a childish attempt to rise a provincial back and forth, but it was the hardest pool in the competition.


    And if racing “strolled it” they wouldn’t be in an away QF

    It's not a provincial back and forth - we have talked about Munster and Munster only. I have failed to see any mention of Connacht, Leinster or Ulster.

    Do not make it out that the Munster group was the hardest group in the competition when it wasn't. Munster were never in the running to make it out of the group - Racing qualified comfortably and Saracens made it out with a B team after throwing 2 games.

    The criteria was not which pool was the hardest to win - that privilege belonged to Pool 3 where two teams won 5 games so Racing having an away QF doesn't change the fact they strolled into the quarter finals without any threat of elimination.


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    #4616
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,301 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Yeah but its been done to death, resurrected, done to death again, flogged for good measure and the dissected, put back together and is being done again. And if hes dropped that'll surely breath yet new life into it all over again.

    POMs form has been poor. Not as bad as has been made out, but if hes dropped I doubt many could really argue effectively against it. Stander is a better 6 and Deegan offers more coverage and impact off the bench. If hes selected then it depends on where and with who, but could equally make sense.

    agreed, but to date the argument has been hypothetical.

    when its "real" it becomes a different kettle of fish... and i dare say this thread will attract new contributors who will want to input their tuppence.


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    #4617
    arsebiscuits1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    Nothing against VDF
    I haven't seen him play this year as I don't watch Leinster.
    He is a good player

    I think you just forfeited your right to demand anyone's inclusion in the squad over anyone else.


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    #4618
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The back row is critical to the way Ireland play. When we have a good balanced back row we seem to be a lot more competitive. That's why I find it is often a hot topic for debate.

    I agree, and I've been calling it the biggest area that needed looking at myself. It didnt work last year and we missed a dynamic ball carrier like Conan, Leavy or Heaslip. If we need to make a change then someone needs to lose out. Simple as.


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    #4619
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,960 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    molloyjh wrote: »
    I agree, and I've been calling it the biggest area that needed looking at myself. It didnt work last year and we missed a dynamic ball carrier like Conan, Leavy or Heaslip. If we need to make a change then someone needs to lose out. Simple as.

    In Heaslip's latter years I don't think his carrying was as dynamic or strong as it was earlier in his career. But he was still very effective at getting over the gainline with good footwork. What we really miss is his all round game. He could link, slow down ball at the ruck and get over the gainline. Stander can do that too, but Heaslip was just better at it.

    We definitely missed Leavy least year. I rate VDF just as highly, but his carrying in the tight just isn't as strong as Leavy's. When we were struggling to make yards up the middle against stronger opposition that's when his loss was really felt.


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    #4620
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,426 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Clegg wrote: »
    In Heaslip's latter years I don't think his carrying was as dynamic or strong as it was earlier in his career. But he was still very effective at getting over the gainline with good footwork. What we really miss is his all round game. He could link, slow down ball at the ruck and get over the gainline. Stander can do that too, but Heaslip was just better at it.

    We definitely missed Leavy least year. I rate VDF just as highly, but his carrying in the tight just isn't as strong as Leavy's. When we were struggling to make yards up the middle against stronger opposition that's when his loss was really felt.

    I think the last part is spot on tbh.

    A stronger case for POM could be made if Leavy was at 7. With VDF at 7, I don't think we can continue with 6. POM and 8. Stander.


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    #4621
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Healy, Herring, Furlong
    Ryan, Henderson.
    Stander, Doris, VdF
    Murray Sexton
    Aki, Ringrose
    Stockdale, Larmour and Conway.


This discussion has been closed.
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