General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

FrancieBrady · 27-01-2020 09:09AM

Phoebas wrote: »

She may well do that.
She's on on the occasion of Brexit night, so she might well be critical of the government's treatment of NI in the Brexit negotiations.

Let her say what she likes and let the cards fall where they may.

Even if it's a lie or a mis-truth?

Sure why not get rid of all the checks and onus on balance so? Why bother.

is_that_so · 27-01-2020 09:12AM

cameramonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by "largely unexplained poll ratings"?

A poll that shows a party on a surprisingly high level for some people? In that poll both SF and FF are favoured for housing and health but FG on the economy. Still early days. Look to polls next weekend and the number of Don't Knows coming right down.

is_that_so · 27-01-2020 09:16AM

Macha wrote: »

I am genuinely puzzled by this.

Care about the health system? Poor air quality costs Ireland E2bn/year and causes 1,600 premature deaths. That's over 10% of our annual healthcare expenditure. How much pressure would it take off our healthcare system to not have to deal with this? Plus the better quality of life from less lung cancer, asthma, etc.

That's just one example.

People look at things immediately around them. Poor air is really not one of those things.

Phoebas · 27-01-2020 09:18AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if it's a lie or a mis-truth?

No.

Sure why not get rid of all the checks and onus on balance so? Why bother.

Rashers Big Log · 27-01-2020 09:20AM

Pronto63 wrote: »

I don't seem to have permission to vote!

Not enough school places.
Not enough hospital beds.
Not enough housing stock.

Yet we want to increase the population by immigration!

Is immigration not the massive elephant in the room?

I wouldnt be anti-immigration as such but I would impose a 5 year suspension of all immigration.
5 years breathing space to sort things out before letting more people in.

Grand. So as a quid pro quo I would support the USA deporting each and every illegal Irish person. Put them on a ship and drop them off in Cork. Keep Ireland Irish, right?

is_that_so · 27-01-2020 09:23AM

iCareNotOneJot wrote: »

Yeah but apparantly its racist to suggest having more immigration restrictions

It might be but it does fly in the face of EU rules of free movement, where the majority of the immigration comes from.

is_that_so · 27-01-2020 09:27AM

meeeeh wrote: »

What is in it for SF though? Policy wise they are actual opposition. The main difference between FF and FG is that one of them is slightly more urban, richer and younger. Why would SF allow FG to position themselves as true opposition while they would be propping up the party which isn't prepared to let them anywhere near the cabinet table.

Confidence and supply is complete nonsense anyway. It worked when Brexit was an issue (it still is but in this phase Irish government doesn't have the same say) but it won't work once the common outside threat is gone.

Given where support seems to be for parties, it is a likely runner in the new Dail so not nonsense.

Whitecarstones · 27-01-2020 09:29AM

Pat Buckley is in our area.

I am not much of a sinn fein voter but both he and the local sinn fein counsellor are outstanding at their jobs and have done so much for our area especially with mental health.

Despite that he will struggle to get in again because of the likes of David Stanton (shivers) who has not been seen or heard of since the last GE. Yet he always SAILS in the door.

People need to start looking beyond parties and look at the people for themselves and how much good they have or can do for the area.

Thats goes for all parties. Cannot stand Fine Gael or Fianna Fail but i would vote for a good candidate.

Uriel. · 27-01-2020 09:34AM

Pronto63 wrote: »

I don't seem to have permission to vote!

Not enough school places.
Not enough hospital beds.
Not enough housing stock.

Yet we want to increase the population by immigration!

Is immigration not the massive elephant in the room?

I wouldnt be anti-immigration as such but I would impose a 5 year suspension of all immigration.
5 years breathing space to sort things out before letting more people in.

Im not convinced that the answer to the health system is more hospital beds. We have loads,the problem is they are not being utilised to their full potential for a variety of reasons. Over 600 beds are used at any one time for people who no longer need to be in hospital. Health investment focus should be in improved community services and early intervention and prevention services. Keep people who do not need acute care out of acute hospitals.

We saw it last year with one of our esteemed TDs, a health committee member no less - attended an acute hospital with their child, couldn't believe the mess it was in and left and went home after a few hours waiting. Leaving aside the fact that a health committee member for the last few years is only just now realising the normal everyday situation in our hospitals - it provides a classic example of a far bigger issue - people attending accident and emergency departments with issues that are not emergencies and do not require acute care.

We're a dumb electorate though and we make it easy for politicians.

Bishop of hope · 27-01-2020 09:38AM

meeeeh wrote: »

What is in it for SF though? Policy wise they are actual opposition. The main difference between FF and FG is that one of them is slightly more urban, richer and younger. Why would SF allow FG to position themselves as true opposition while they would be propping up the party which isn't prepared to let them anywhere near the cabinet table.

Confidence and supply is complete nonsense anyway. It worked when Brexit was an issue (it still is but in this phase Irish government doesn't have the same say) but it won't work once the common outside threat is gone.

If FF end up as the largest party or second even, then for a change of Govt to take place and for genuine opposition to FG getting back in or having any say in the next Govt, it surely falls on the next largest party to somehow come to some sort of deal with FF to form a Govt?

is_that_so · 27-01-2020 09:39AM

Uriel. wrote: »

Im not convinced that the answer to the health system is more hospital beds. We have loads,the problem is they are not being utilised to their full potential for a variety of reasons. Over 600 beds are used at any one time for people who no longer need to be in hospital. Health investment focus should be in improved community services and early intervention and prevention services. Keep people who do not need acute care out of acute hospitals.

There is an issue with beds but mostly with step down and nursing facilities so those who should be moved can't and so "block" beds. It's not that we have limited facilities just not enough in the places where we need them.

Dtp1979 · 27-01-2020 09:40AM

Answer : The politicians

is_that_so · 27-01-2020 09:42AM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

If FF end up as the largest party or second even, then for a change of Govt to take place and for genuine opposition to FG getting back in or having any say in the next Govt, it surely falls on the next largest party to somehow come to some sort of deal with FF to form a Govt?

FF and FG can do that, SF less likely as only housing promises are in sync and they'd have a volatile base to keep happy.

is_that_so · 27-01-2020 09:43AM

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Answer : The politicians

Answer to that :- Vote in new ones.

road_high · 27-01-2020 09:59AM

Whelo79 wrote: »

As far as I am aware SF have not made any statement or complaint regarding Arlene's scheduled appearance so your claim of paranoia and suppression of free speech from the party is utter drivel.

Well what have we been talking about then for the past 4 pages? It was the shinnerbots that brought it up.

circadian · 27-01-2020 10:00AM

For me, and I'm not even sure of a particular order.

Healthcare system is a mess.

Environment really needs to be dealt with, even if it's spiralling out of control everywhere else we should be making best effort to become as self sufficient as possible.

Childcare is mental, costing more than my mortgage and that isn't small by any means.

Policing needs overhauled and modernised.

A fresh approach to pretty much all social issues, drug use and addiction being one.

FrancieBrady · 27-01-2020 10:04AM

road_high wrote: »

Well what have we been talking about then for the past 4 pages? It was the shinnerbots that brought it up.

hotmail.com is a 'shinnerbot' now too? 'Paranoia is striking deep in the heartland'.

meeeeh · 27-01-2020 10:19AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Given where support seems to be for parties, it is a likely runner in the new Dail so not nonsense.

I'm not saying it is not a runner, I think the process itself is nonsense. You need functioning government but at least with FG you know who you are making arrangements with. With SF that's a lot less clear and from perspective of someone in the government that's just not on.

is_that_so · 27-01-2020 10:22AM

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm not saying it is not a runner, I think the process itself is nonsense. You need functioning government but at least with FG you know who you are making arrangements with. With SF that's a lot less clear and from perspective of someone in the government that's just not on.

In an ideal world it would be a coalition with a working majority but that's not how people are voting at the moment. Parties can only work with the tools given to them. My own feeling about SF is there is far too much of my road or the high road, some of which is their own version of things but quite a bit dictated by a nouveau base who would rapidly desert them if they "sold out".

osarusan · 27-01-2020 10:28AM

1 sitting TD in Limerick, haven't heard much from him since he got elected, but then I haven't heard much from/about any Limerick TC since they got elected.

Went from 6 councillors to 2 at local level in the 2019 local elections, serious drop in their vote.

SafeSurfer · 27-01-2020 10:44AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if it's a lie or a mis-truth?

Sure why not get rid of all the checks and onus on balance so? Why bother.

Oh yes, bring back Section 31 for anyone critical of the past policies of political parties.

SafeSurfer · 27-01-2020 10:49AM

meeeeh wrote: »

What is in it for SF though? Policy wise they are actual opposition. The main difference between FF and FG is that one of them is slightly more urban, richer and younger. Why would SF allow FG to position themselves as true opposition while they would be propping up the party which isn't prepared to let them anywhere near the cabinet table.

Confidence and supply is complete nonsense anyway. It worked when Brexit was an issue (it still is but in this phase Irish government doesn't have the same say) but it won't work once the common outside threat is gone.

So you think that the common outside threat is gone? That Brexit is effectively over?

FrancieBrady · 27-01-2020 10:53AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Oh yes, bring back Section 31 for anyone critical of the past policies of political parties.

Not surprising there are some who still cannot see nuance and want to reach for the gag.

SafeSurfer · 27-01-2020 10:56AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not surprising there are some who still cannot see nuance and want to reach for the gag.

I think political nuance is lost on a party who had a dual ballot box/armalite strategy for a generation.

FrancieBrady · 27-01-2020 11:10AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think political nuance is lost on a party who had a dual ballot box/armalite strategy for a generation.

I for one, am damn glad they did. Sometimes I think you guys and gals hanker after conflict/war.

As i said earlier, this woman is as likely to be critical of FG as she is of SF. She has called this state 'belligerent' as recently as this year.
The middle of an election campaign is totally the wrong time to be giving somebody like that a platform if your duty as a national broadcaster is to be 'balanced'.

Very simple issue, no matter what party you are supporting/a member of.

meeeeh · 27-01-2020 11:15AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So you think that the common outside threat is gone? That Brexit is effectively over?

Eh no. The difference is that influence Ireland has is lesser. Negotiations about withdrawal agreement were about borders, citizens rights and similar. This disproportionately affected Ireland and Ireland's role in negotiations was very important. When you are talking trade Germany is main UK trading partner, French will have their own goals and so on. Suddenly Irish position will be a lot weaker, there won't be as many phone calls to Dublin to as they were during negotiations about withdrawal.

I'm very well aware Brexit isn't done yet but Irish role is a lot less significant despite Phil Hogan being trade commissioner. From that perspective continuity and government stability is less important. Phil Hogan becoming trade commissioner might be significant but so should be the German president of Commission and French president of ECB.

golfball37 · 27-01-2020 11:16AM

They have no presence in Clare at all. I think Dev will be the last TD elected for them here for at least another 20 years.

Ikozma · 27-01-2020 11:20AM

meeeeh wrote: »

They burst into flames the moment they cross the village border where I live.

I think one of them was brave enough to venture in during the first election campaign after the crash. I haven't seen them since. It's a FF area and I think even FG approach it with trepidation.

Carol Nolan got in the last election. She doesn't have a chance and neither does who ever is replacing her as candidate in the constituency. I don't think they ever bother with the posters.

This is why ireland is in the state it is, people sticking to the same party litteraly no matter how many time they drag the country through the **** all because their daddy or grandad used support them its sad and pathetic really

meeeeh · 27-01-2020 11:26AM

Ikozma wrote: »

This is why ireland is in the state it is, people sticking to the same party litteraly no matter how many time they drag the country through the **** all because their daddy or grandad used support them its sad and pathetic really

What state is that? Ireland is still one of the most prosperous countries in the world. I actually agree that it's no way to vote but it still doesn't mean people will consider SF as viable alternative. It will be FG (among bigger parties).

SafeSurfer · 27-01-2020 11:37AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I for one, am damn glad they did. Sometimes I think you guys and gals hanker after conflict/war.

As i said earlier, this woman is as likely to be critical of FG as she is of SF. She has called this state 'belligerent' as recently as this year.
The middle of an election campaign is totally the wrong time to be giving somebody like that a platform if your duty as a national broadcaster is to be 'balanced'.

Very simple issue, no matter what party you are supporting/a member of.

When you talk of the duty of the national broadcaster doEs that include a duty to people from all parts of the island or does the national duty stop at the border?

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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