The Irish and 'Its' and 'It's'

Church on Tuesday · 26-01-2020 12:53PM

KaneToad wrote: »

Why the inverted commas?

Just your run-of-the-mill Boards wind up artist.

There's loads.

biko · 26-01-2020 01:04PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Happens everywhere around the world.

It's not just an Irish thing, stop with the Irish bashing.

From USA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39lHPHs8bV8

vriesmays · 26-01-2020 02:01PM

Without further adieu.

is_that_so · 26-01-2020 02:08PM

Clara Miniature Thunderbolt wrote: »

Who and whom is another one.
If you use who instead of whom, few people will notice, and fewer will care.
If you use whom instead of who, everyone will notice. Some will assume you're right and think you must be terribly well educated.

Whom really just remains in use after prepositions. It's too much work to decide if the object from is required.

Stateofyou · 26-01-2020 02:08PM

biko wrote: »

From USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39lHPHs8bV8

They don't say babby in the US, why do you say it's from there?

railer201 · 26-01-2020 02:14PM

Zascar wrote: »

1000x this. I shiver every time I hear it, I don't know why but it really gets under my skin.

"I see this movie". No, it's "I saw this movie" or "I have seen this movie" - https://proofreading.ie/portfolio/using-did-and-done-correctly/
"I done it already". No, it's "I did it already" or "I have done it already" - https://proofreading.ie/portfolio/saw-or-seen/

My grammar is far from perfect but this one is so basic, it really 'Smacks of a poor education" as you say. However it just seems to be an accepted part of Irish vocabulary these days for so many.

It does, doesn't it notn't !

is_that_so · 26-01-2020 02:15PM

KiKi III wrote: »

I explained to a friend of mine the other day that “should of” is not a real phrase. I had to go into detail on how it’s a mishearing of “should’ve”.

He has a degree from trinity.

In its contracted form, phonetics do represent it as an approximation of should of like this /ˈʃʊd.əv/. No excuse not to know how to spell it properly. "Should/Could have went" is another increasingly popular form, once heard from an RTE correspondent on live TV.

Stateofyou · 26-01-2020 02:18PM

How do we feel about "amn't I?"

is_that_so · 26-01-2020 02:20PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

How do we feel about "amn't I?"

I like it - classic Hiberno English, but not as much as "Amn't I not after telling you".

LLMMLL · 26-01-2020 02:22PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

How do we feel about "amn't I?"

Another ridiculous thread from those with zero knowledge of actual linguistics.

Every native english speaker speaks grammatical English unless they have brain damage or get distracted mid sentence and forget how they started it.

is_that_so · 26-01-2020 02:25PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Another ridiculous thread from those with zero knowledge of actual linguistics.

Every native english speaker speaks grammatical English unless they have brain damage or get distracted mid sentence and forget how they started it.

We await your "expertise" so, if you can be bothered! All this shows is that you have a snarky attitude and probably don't play well with others!

LLMMLL · 26-01-2020 02:27PM

is_that_so wrote: »

We await your "expertise" so if you can be bothered! All this shows is that you have a snarky attitude and probably don't play well with others!

I just gave my expertise. Every native English speaker is speaking grammatically. What do you need further elaboration on?

moonage · 26-01-2020 02:36PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

How do we feel about "amn't I?"

"Amn't I" makes more sense than "Aren't I".

Am I not correct? I am.

Are I not correct? I are. I is. I am.

is_that_so · 26-01-2020 02:45PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I just gave my expertise. Every native English speaker is speaking grammatically. What do you need further elaboration on?

Well a bit more than I say so would be good. According to generally defined rules they are not and some lapse into what is considered non-standard grammar. For a self-proclaimed expert on linguistics you're not exactly pushing the boat out on developing any type of extended discourse, as is evident in how much repair is required.

LLMMLL · 26-01-2020 02:55PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Well a bit more than I say so would be good. According to generally defined rules they are not and some lapse into what is considered non-standard grammar. For a self-proclaimed expert on linguistics you're not exactly pushing the boat out on developing any type of extended discourse, as is evident in how much repair is required.

"Standard grammar" is made up and was only a part of linguistics pre 1950s. Modern linguists recognize (and value) the way native speakers ACTUALLY speak. And that varies by person, by region etc.

People do not "lapse" into "non-standard" grammar. That is pure nonsense. They consistently speak their own variety of English. There is absolutely ZERO linguistic reason to think of "I saw" as being more "correct" than "I seen".

martingriff · 26-01-2020 03:07PM

When people go to 3rd Level and study degrees, it is modules for the course. They do not study English and grammar. So just because you go to 3rd Level does not necessarily mean your grammar or spelling will be good.

Badly Drunk Boy · 26-01-2020 03:21PM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am not even close to being a grammar Nazi, but there is a huge issue in this country with the apostrophe.

But why are you just blaming the Irish? It's rampant throughout the English-speaking world. Ireland isn't even mentioned in that article about the Apostrophe Protection Society's disbandment.

Stateofyou · 26-01-2020 03:41PM

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

But why are you just blaming the Irish? It's rampant throughout the English-speaking world. Ireland isn't even mentioned in that article about the Apostrophe Protection Society's disbandment.

I actually see it a bit differently. The question or subject is "The Irish and Its and It's" yet American's were dragged into it pretty quick (as per usual). When the focus is on Irish people and the use of them in Ireland. Presumably because the poster is Irish and we're on an Irish forum. It seems we can't accept our own faults or criticism very well without dragging in others in brilliant "whataboutism" fashion.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 26-01-2020 03:47PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

I actually see it a bit differently. The question or subject is "The Irish and Its and It's" yet American's were dragged into it pretty quick (as per usual). When the focus is on Irish people and the use of them in Ireland. Presumably because the poster is Irish and we're on an Irish forum. It seems we can't accept our own faults or criticism very well without dragging in others in brilliant "whataboutism" fashion.

In fairness, the OP did claim it was more prevalent here that in the states and posters have accepted that we do indeed make a bags of its and it's, albeit no more so than others.

Raconteuse · 26-01-2020 03:51PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

I actually see it a bit differently. The question or subject is "The Irish and Its and It's" yet American's were dragged into it pretty quick (as per usual). When the focus is on Irish people and the use of them in Ireland. Presumably because the poster is Irish and we're on an Irish forum. It seems we can't accept our own faults or criticism very well without dragging in others in brilliant "whataboutism" fashion.

People always say "only in Ireland" and other inane shyte along those lines though. It is a thing for people regularly to refer to universal occurrences as exclusively Irish.

Stateofyou · 26-01-2020 03:58PM

Raconteuse wrote: »

People always say "only in Ireland" and other inane shyte along those lines though. It is a thing for people regularly to refer to universal occurrences as exclusively Irish.

That’s true too!

colm_mcm · 26-01-2020 04:07PM

KiKi III wrote: »

I explained to a friend of mine the other day that “should of” is not a real phrase. I had to go into detail on how it’s a mishearing of “should’ve”.

He has a degree from trinity.

He should of going a bit longer

Church on Tuesday · 26-01-2020 04:12PM

Raconteuse wrote: »

People always say "only in Ireland" and other inane shyte along those lines though. It is a thing for people regularly to refer to universal occurrences as exclusively Irish.

It's that classic self loathing inferiority complex some have.

26-01-2020 04:43PM

martingriff wrote: »

When people go to 3rd Level and study degrees, it is modules for the course. They do not study English and grammar. So just because you go to 3rd Level does not necessarily mean your grammar or spelling will be good.

Exactly, I have a PhD and I’m terrible at spelling etc and it doesn’t bother me. All my writing is done on computers with auto correct and spell check etc so it’s never an issue.

Church on Tuesday · 26-01-2020 05:05PM

Hendrix Polite Suburbia wrote: »

Exactly, I have a PhD and I’m terrible at spelling etc and it doesn’t bother me. All my writing is done on computers with auto correct and spell check etc so it’s never an issue.

Do you not think there is something sad about that though? Not attacking you or anything, we all use autocorrect, but it seems that correct use of grammar in a instinctual way is becoming something of a lost art.

Greyfox · 26-01-2020 05:24PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Do you not think there is something sad about that though? Not attacking you or anything, we all use autocorrect, but it seems that correct use of grammar in a instinctual way is becoming something of a lost art.

Absolutely not, I think it's silly to see something sad about that. Modern technology improves things including the fact that some people forget the things they learn in primary school. We don't handwrite letters anymore so does it really matter if it becomes a lost art?

Church on Tuesday · 26-01-2020 05:30PM

Greyfox wrote: »

Absolutely not, I think it's silly to see something sad about that. Modern technology improves things including the fact that some people forget the things they learn in primary school. We don't handwrite letters anymore so does it really matter if it becomes a lost art?

I think it does.

Fritzbox · 26-01-2020 05:38PM

Achasanai · 26-01-2020 06:16PM

It's odd that the word 'its' is a possessive form yet most possessive forms require an apostrophe to indicate this. I wonder if it used to contain an apostrophe but got dropped along the way (which is what happens in language, despite what the grammar nazis think).

Junkyard Tom · 26-01-2020 06:28PM

Its not that important, is it lad's?

The Irish and 'Its' and 'It's'

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