The Irish and 'Its' and 'It's'

MrAbyss

I am not even close to being a grammar Nazi, but there is a huge issue in this country with the apostrophe.

I worked with professionals - who had top degrees - who didn't know their 'it's' from their 'its'. As bad as that is, I have seen advertising graphic posters for products on bus stops and the DART with 'its the one you want.' and 'comes with it's own monitor'. These were big ad accounts and no one in the agency caught it.

My favourite was a plaque of " WB Yeats' " on the beach in Strandhill in Sligo under the WWW sign cast in Bronze.

JohnnyFlash

It’s not as bad as the ‘seen and done merchants’. Smacks of a poor education.

SmartinMartin

Their they're there, you should feel better now. Don't loose it.

I don’t let it bother me all that much. You know what they mean.

biko

Ban short form, it is clear the Irish are not able for it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It seems to be a common trait in the UK and the US as well. Familiarity with a language seems to lead to complacency.

MrAbyss

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

MrAbyss

Luca Nervous Bride wrote: »

It seems to be a common trait in the UK and the US as well. Familiarity with a language seems to lead to complacency.

No it isn't. Not to the degree you see here. Educated Americans I found had excellent English writing skills. Apart from their phobia for the letter 'u'.

One eyed Jack

MrAbyss wrote: »

As bad as that is, I have seen advertising graphic posters for products on bus stops and the DART with 'its the one you want.' and 'comes with it's own monitor'. These were big ad accounts and no one in the agency caught it.

I’m trying to figure out what’s wrong with the examples given above?

Cordell

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m trying to figure out what’s wrong with the examples given above?

Your joking.

KiKi III

I explained to a friend of mine the other day that “should of” is not a real phrase. I had to go into detail on how it’s a mishearing of “should’ve”.

He has a degree from trinity.

MrAbyss

KiKi III wrote: »

I explained to a friend of mine the other day that “should of” is not a real phrase. I had to go into detail on how it’s a mishearing of “should’ve”.

He has a degree from trinity.

I used to work for a pensions company and most of the clients were semi-literate at best. Again. All degrees.

The education system in Ireland is shocking. When I was growing up you had RTE and politicians claiming it was greatest in the world FFS lol.

Alun

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m trying to figure out what’s wrong with the examples given above?

Seriously?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

MrAbyss wrote: »

No it isn't. Not to the degree you see here. Educated Americans I found had excellent English writing skills. Apart from their phobia for the letter 'u'.

Many Americans misuse its and it's; I've seen it in many drafts of papers and even in some published work by educated American, as you put it. Likewise many educated Irish correctly use it. Neither has a monopoly on either side of the equation.

Indeed poor grammar is as rife among the not so educated Americans as here, if not more so.

EmmetSpiceland

MrAbyss wrote: »

I used to work for a pensions company and most of the clients were semi-literate at best. Again. All degrees.

Probably “Arts” degrees.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Formal teaching of grammar has slipped dramatically plus there is a tenancy to simply accept the errors nowadays, rather than pull somebody up on it. Even try it here and you'll be carded for being a grammar Nazi - you can't win!

Moomoomacshoe

KiKi III wrote: »

I explained to a friend of mine the other day that “should of” is not a real phrase. I had to go into detail on how it’s a mishearing of “should’ve”.

He has a degree from trinity.

That's the most annoying one "should of". Also whirlwind now being said as worldwind!

EchoIndia

Cordell wrote: »

Your joking.

You are, too, it appears.

One eyed Jack

Alun wrote: »

Seriously?

Unfortunately, yes. I’ve searched on google for the correct use of its and it’s in various different contexts, and it didn’t give me any better indication of appropriate use of either, or why the OP’s examples were incorrect.

4068ac1elhodqr

Wonder if this is the OP?:

Apostrophe Protection Society disband's because 'ignorance and laziness has wonz'
Mr Richard's' claim's the biggest problem is not people misusing the apostrophe, but failing to use it at all'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/apostrophe-protection-society-john-richards-grammar-lazy-a9229106.html

Its a mystery

I wanted to post a reverse it's as well but couldn't think of any

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Unfortunately, yes. I’ve searched on google for the correct use of its and it’s in various different contexts, and it didn’t give me any better indication of appropriate use of either, or why the OP’s examples were incorrect.

It’s is a contraction of it is or it has.
Its is the possessive form of it.

The confusion is because, with most other words, ‘s indicates possession.

Luca Nervous Bride

Luca Nervous Bride wrote: »

It’s is a contraction of it is or it has.
Its is the possessive form of it.

The confusion is because, with most other words, ‘s indicates possession.

Saw a thread title on reddit with something like "babies first taste of icecream"
There was only one baby though

Bobblehats

I like to think I subconsciously know the correct circumstances under which to deploy it, and sometimes may even make the effort but I end up making a tit of it regardless

somefeen

Luca Nervous Bride wrote: »

Formal teaching of grammar has slipped dramatically plus there is a tenancy to simply accept the errors nowadays, rather than pull somebody up on it. Even try it here and you'll be carded for being a grammar Nazi - you can't win!

Then we can't accept your error here. :P

Tendency

The Apostrophe Protection Society has recently closed down. They gave up.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

somefeen wrote: »

Then we can't accept your error here. :P

Tendency

True, though a spelling error is somewhat different to grammar.

happyday

There's another thread in Ranting and Raving called "It's ADVICE" that you might like.

spacetweek

MrAbyss wrote: »

The education system in Ireland is shocking. When I was growing up you had RTE and politicians claiming it was greatest in the world FFS lol.

It is one of the greatest in the world, according to the latest PISA results. Our 15yo students came 4th out of 36 countries in literacy. Not sure how that translates to writing, but you'd think the two would be linked.

The reason people don't care whether they write "it's" correctly isn't because they aren't well educated, it's because they don't care. People just don't think it's a big deal, the meaning is nearly always clear. All the education in the world wouldn't change that.

BTW, I've also had to explain to a mate that "should of" isn't a real thing you can say.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Is it wrong if I make the assumption that some of these things are a sign of someone being lazy?

Like, when a poster starts every single sentence with a lowercase letter? Some people are bad at spelling fair enough... but almost everyone knows that you start a sentence with a capital letter!

It's just laziness... what else could it be?

Of course they'll just say "why does it matter?"... and they're probably correct, it doesn't. I can still read what they're saying.

But I'm betting they are probably lazy in other areas of life too. Might be an unfair assumption, but that's where my mind automatically goes when I see it. :P

Spanish Eyes

We need a pedants thread or we will loose the plot and buy tomatoe's.

KaneToad

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Probably “Arts” degrees.

Why the inverted commas?

Spanish Eyes

Eats shoots and leaves. Or eats, shoots and leaves. Brilliant book altogether.

Quantum Erasure

MrAbyss wrote: »

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

did you educate her?

My mother was a punctuation and grammar fiend, it having been passed down through the family from her grandfather, a native Irish speaker from Easky who was passionate about his newly learned tongue, English. Apart from that, when she attended the, then famous, Dublin Commercial College in 1930s (one of the Thai royal family was in her class) she attended classes in Shorthand, Typing, Bookkeeping, French and English Grammar, which provided her with an excellent post-school education from which she got a good job. There was an emphasis on punctuation & grammar back then.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Is it wrong if I make the assumption that some of these things are a sign of someone being lazy?

Like, when a poster starts every single sentence with a lowercase letter? Some people are bad at spelling fair enough... but almost everyone knows that you start a sentence with a capital letter!

It's just laziness... what else could it be?

Of course they'll just say "why does it matter?"... and they're probably correct, it doesn't. I can still read what they're saying.

But I'm betting they are probably lazy in other areas of life too. Might be an unfair assumption, but that's where my mind automatically goes when I see it. :P

I fully accept all abuse in this area

Church on Tuesday

Happens everywhere around the world.

It's not just an Irish thing, stop with the Irish bashing.

RobertKK

MrAbyss wrote: »

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

So she was just ignorant of the meaning of that word.

Pinch Flat

Since the APS stopped, its only going to get worse

http://www.apostrophe.org.uk

Theirs no way the misuse of the apostrophe will improve now.

Raconteuse

MrAbyss wrote: »

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

Yeah it's strange how frequently misused that word is.

Another one is "sallow" - it does not mean tanned, it means kinda brown but that ill looking greyish or yellowish brown, dark circles under the eyes etc.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am not even close to being a grammar Nazi, but there is a huge issue in this country with the apostrophe.

I worked with professionals - who had top degrees - who didn't know their 'it's' from their 'its'. As bad as that is, I have seen advertising graphic posters for products on bus stops and the DART with 'its the one you want.' and 'comes with it's own monitor'. These were big ad accounts and no one in the agency caught it.

My favourite was a plaque of " WB Yeats' " on the beach in Strandhill in Sligo under the WWW sign cast in Bronze.

I have to agree. So rarely do I see ‘its’ used. Did most people miss that primary school lesson or something? It’s so regular here on boards that I’m pleasantly surprised to see ‘its’ used for the possessive instead of ‘it’s’ when it happens. I’m not usually a grammar nazi either but how can people not get that ‘it’s’ is a contraction of ‘it is’?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

MrAbyss wrote: »

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

That is one of the definitions of ignorant. The word has more than one meaning. If you used it to say someone was lacking knowledge of a topic, you were right. If she said that it means a rude person, she was also right.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Unfortunately, yes. I’ve searched on google for the correct use of its and it’s in various different contexts, and it didn’t give me any better indication of appropriate use of either, or why the OP’s examples were incorrect.

You didn’t look very hard. Numerous good sources outline the differences and reasons for them clearly.

Xertz

It seems we've a major issue with Only in Ireland threads that talk about universal issues that are far from unique to this country.

Most English speakers are no longer taught grammar in any kind of formal context and the result is repetition of all sorts of very basic mistakes.

The grocer's apostrophe is a pretty common error that occurs very regularly in all English speaking countries because a % of the population either was never taught or does not understand the grammar around 's and ---s' for possession, how it's used for contractions etc. A lot of people seem to just put in 's for all plurals, particularly on signage.

You also see things like quotation marks being used to emphasise things, when it makes them look like they're talking hypothetically. "Sale" now on!

There's even a Facebook group called the Redundant Proof Readers Society if you want to have a laugh at some of the signage people encounter.

It's as unique to Ireland as walking into a lamppost while tweeting on your smartphone.

Raconteuse

The confusion between its and it's is one I understand because it's the reverse to proper noun possession where there is an apostrophe.

"Your" for "you're" is the one that grates on me. Also "where" and "were" being mixed up. The two words sound completely different ffs.

Xertz

It's really not that complicated, but it's tripping people up all the time as they're never taught in a clear way.

The one that gets me is you regularly hear really bad grammar on news reports both here and also in the UK. Americans are generally a bit more accurate, perhaps as there are fewer regional dialects or they still teach grammar in English classes there.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Luca Nervous Bride wrote: »

It seems to be a common trait in the UK and the US as well. Familiarity with a language seems to lead to complacency.

Native speakers of a language make different mistakes to those learning the language.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I have long suspected that the way Irish people use the word ignorant to mean rude is one of the many direct translations from Irish. A lot of Hiberno-English expressions originated in this way. I don't see anything wrong with them. We can have our own form of the language.

For what it's worth Spanish speakers say "maleducado" (badly educated) to mean rude.

Ipso

sdanseo

All of these are dwarfed by the bizarre use of "been" instead of "being" and apostrophes to pluralise almost everything.

For such a well educated nation, there really are a catastrophic number of people who can't use correct grammar.

Rodin

Luca Nervous Bride wrote: »

Formal teaching of grammar has slipped dramatically plus there is a tenancy to simply accept the errors nowadays, rather than pull somebody up on it. Even try it here and you'll be carded for being a grammar Nazi - you can't win!

Tenancy?

Zascar

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s not as bad as the ‘seen and done merchants’. Smacks of a poor education.

1000x this. I shiver every time I hear it, I don't know why but it really gets under my skin.

"I see this movie". No, it's "I saw this movie" or "I have seen this movie" - https://proofreading.ie/portfolio/using-did-and-done-correctly/
"I done it already". No, it's "I did it already" or "I have done it already" - https://proofreading.ie/portfolio/saw-or-seen/

My grammar is far from perfect but this one is so basic, it really 'Smacks of a poor education" as you say. However it just seems to be an accepted part of Irish vocabulary these days for so many.