The Irish and 'Its' and 'It's'

KaneToad · 25-01-2020 09:05PM

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Probably “Arts” degrees.

Why the inverted commas?

Spanish Eyes · 25-01-2020 09:06PM

Eats shoots and leaves. Or eats, shoots and leaves. Brilliant book altogether.

Quantum Erasure · 25-01-2020 09:08PM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

did you educate her?

25-01-2020 09:11PM

My mother was a punctuation and grammar fiend, it having been passed down through the family from her grandfather, a native Irish speaker from Easky who was passionate about his newly learned tongue, English. Apart from that, when she attended the, then famous, Dublin Commercial College in 1930s (one of the Thai royal family was in her class) she attended classes in Shorthand, Typing, Bookkeeping, French and English Grammar, which provided her with an excellent post-school education from which she got a good job. There was an emphasis on punctuation & grammar back then.

25-01-2020 09:11PM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Is it wrong if I make the assumption that some of these things are a sign of someone being lazy?

Like, when a poster starts every single sentence with a lowercase letter? Some people are bad at spelling fair enough... but almost everyone knows that you start a sentence with a capital letter!

It's just laziness... what else could it be?

Of course they'll just say "why does it matter?"... and they're probably correct, it doesn't. I can still read what they're saying.

But I'm betting they are probably lazy in other areas of life too. Might be an unfair assumption, but that's where my mind automatically goes when I see it. :P

I fully accept all abuse in this area

Church on Tuesday · 26-01-2020 12:16AM

Happens everywhere around the world.

It's not just an Irish thing, stop with the Irish bashing.

RobertKK · 26-01-2020 12:19AM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

So she was just ignorant of the meaning of that word.

Pinch Flat · 26-01-2020 02:13AM

Since the APS stopped, its only going to get worse

http://www.apostrophe.org.uk

Theirs no way the misuse of the apostrophe will improve now.

Raconteuse · 26-01-2020 02:17AM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

Yeah it's strange how frequently misused that word is.

Another one is "sallow" - it does not mean tanned, it means kinda brown but that ill looking greyish or yellowish brown, dark circles under the eyes etc.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-01-2020 02:27AM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am not even close to being a grammar Nazi, but there is a huge issue in this country with the apostrophe.

I worked with professionals - who had top degrees - who didn't know their 'it's' from their 'its'. As bad as that is, I have seen advertising graphic posters for products on bus stops and the DART with 'its the one you want.' and 'comes with it's own monitor'. These were big ad accounts and no one in the agency caught it.

My favourite was a plaque of " WB Yeats' " on the beach in Strandhill in Sligo under the WWW sign cast in Bronze.

I have to agree. So rarely do I see ‘its’ used. Did most people miss that primary school lesson or something? It’s so regular here on boards that I’m pleasantly surprised to see ‘its’ used for the possessive instead of ‘it’s’ when it happens. I’m not usually a grammar nazi either but how can people not get that ‘it’s’ is a contraction of ‘it is’?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-01-2020 02:34AM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I was once chastised by a teacher for correctly using 'ignorant' - a Leaving Cert English teacher as she informed me, "it means a rude person."

That is one of the definitions of ignorant. The word has more than one meaning. If you used it to say someone was lacking knowledge of a topic, you were right. If she said that it means a rude person, she was also right.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Unfortunately, yes. I’ve searched on google for the correct use of its and it’s in various different contexts, and it didn’t give me any better indication of appropriate use of either, or why the OP’s examples were incorrect.

You didn’t look very hard. Numerous good sources outline the differences and reasons for them clearly.

Xertz · 26-01-2020 02:36AM

It seems we've a major issue with Only in Ireland threads that talk about universal issues that are far from unique to this country.

Most English speakers are no longer taught grammar in any kind of formal context and the result is repetition of all sorts of very basic mistakes.

The grocer's apostrophe is a pretty common error that occurs very regularly in all English speaking countries because a % of the population either was never taught or does not understand the grammar around 's and ---s' for possession, how it's used for contractions etc. A lot of people seem to just put in 's for all plurals, particularly on signage.

You also see things like quotation marks being used to emphasise things, when it makes them look like they're talking hypothetically. "Sale" now on!

There's even a Facebook group called the Redundant Proof Readers Society if you want to have a laugh at some of the signage people encounter.

It's as unique to Ireland as walking into a lamppost while tweeting on your smartphone.

Raconteuse · 26-01-2020 02:41AM

The confusion between its and it's is one I understand because it's the reverse to proper noun possession where there is an apostrophe.

"Your" for "you're" is the one that grates on me. Also "where" and "were" being mixed up. The two words sound completely different ffs.

Xertz · 26-01-2020 02:43AM

It's really not that complicated, but it's tripping people up all the time as they're never taught in a clear way.

The one that gets me is you regularly hear really bad grammar on news reports both here and also in the UK. Americans are generally a bit more accurate, perhaps as there are fewer regional dialects or they still teach grammar in English classes there.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 26-01-2020 03:07AM

Luca Nervous Bride wrote: »

It seems to be a common trait in the UK and the US as well. Familiarity with a language seems to lead to complacency.

Native speakers of a language make different mistakes to those learning the language.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 26-01-2020 03:14AM

I have long suspected that the way Irish people use the word ignorant to mean rude is one of the many direct translations from Irish. A lot of Hiberno-English expressions originated in this way. I don't see anything wrong with them. We can have our own form of the language.

For what it's worth Spanish speakers say "maleducado" (badly educated) to mean rude.

Ipso · 26-01-2020 03:21AM

sdanseo · 26-01-2020 03:21AM

All of these are dwarfed by the bizarre use of "been" instead of "being" and apostrophes to pluralise almost everything.

For such a well educated nation, there really are a catastrophic number of people who can't use correct grammar.

Rodin · 26-01-2020 03:53AM

Luca Nervous Bride wrote: »

Formal teaching of grammar has slipped dramatically plus there is a tenancy to simply accept the errors nowadays, rather than pull somebody up on it. Even try it here and you'll be carded for being a grammar Nazi - you can't win!

Tenancy?

Zascar · 26-01-2020 07:51AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s not as bad as the ‘seen and done merchants’. Smacks of a poor education.

1000x this. I shiver every time I hear it, I don't know why but it really gets under my skin.

"I see this movie". No, it's "I saw this movie" or "I have seen this movie" - https://proofreading.ie/portfolio/using-did-and-done-correctly/
"I done it already". No, it's "I did it already" or "I have done it already" - https://proofreading.ie/portfolio/saw-or-seen/

My grammar is far from perfect but this one is so basic, it really 'Smacks of a poor education" as you say. However it just seems to be an accepted part of Irish vocabulary these days for so many.

LaFuton · 26-01-2020 08:12AM

tITs

s7ryf3925pivug · 26-01-2020 08:20AM

Who and whom is another one.
If you use who instead of whom, few people will notice, and fewer will care.
If you use whom instead of who, everyone will notice. Some will assume you're right and think you must be terribly well educated.

everlast75 · 26-01-2020 09:06AM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Is it wrong if I make the assumption that some of these things are a sign of someone being lazy?

Like, when a poster starts every single sentence with a lowercase letter? Some people are bad at spelling fair enough... but almost everyone knows that you start a sentence with a capital letter!

It's just laziness... what else could it be?

Of course they'll just say "why does it matter?"... and they're probably correct, it doesn't. I can still read what they're saying.

But I'm betting they are probably lazy in other areas of life too. Might be an unfair assumption, but that's where my mind automatically goes when I see it. :P

I think it could be deemed lazy to start a sentence with the word "like", instead of the words "for example"....

Always Tired · 26-01-2020 09:14AM

Where the Irish really struggle is with been and being. As a result of not pronouncing the ing in being they think they can just use the word been when writing instead, as in "This cup is been used by me."

I guess ofen it doesnt get caught because of the way it's pronounced here and because often statements used with either can be correct, only the tense changes, like "He's being bold." Vs "He's been bold."

listermint · 26-01-2020 09:20AM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I used to work for a pensions company and most of the clients were semi-literate at best. Again. All degrees.

The education system in Ireland is shocking. When I was growing up you had RTE and politicians claiming it was greatest in the world FFS lol.

Opening post claims not to be a Grammar Nazi.

Hangs on absolute minor grammar imperfections then claims the education system in Ireland is shocking.

Two things OP.

You absolutely are hell bent on grammar.

You've evidently not travelled properly.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-01-2020 09:32AM

somefeen wrote: »

Then we can't accept your error here. :P

Tendency

Rodin wrote: »

Tenancy?

That’s obviously a typo, lads.

Montage of Feck · 26-01-2020 09:34AM

It's tits

SeaFields · 26-01-2020 10:16AM

"A man who will misuse an apostrophe is capable of anything"

Con Houlihan

Greyfox · 26-01-2020 10:36AM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am not even close to being a grammar Nazi,

I worked with professionals - who had top degrees - who didn't know their 'it's' from their 'its'.

Hmmm your very close to been one.

Luca Nervous Bride wrote: »

there is a tenancy to simply accept the errors nowadays, rather than pull somebody up on it. Even try it here and you'll be carded for being a grammar Nazi - you can't win!

And I am very happy this is the way it is as once something isn't difficult to read it's very childish to pull someone up on it.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Is it wrong if I make the assumption that some of these things are a sign of someone being lazy?

It's not laziness it's simply not caring and sometimes there right not to care

looksee · 26-01-2020 10:36AM

Xertz wrote: »

It seems we've a major issue with Only in Ireland threads that talk about universal issues that are far from unique to this country.

Most English speakers are no longer taught grammar in any kind of formal context and the result is repetition of all sorts of very basic mistakes.

The grocer's apostrophe is a pretty common error that occurs very regularly in all English speaking countries because a % of the population either was never taught or does not understand the grammar around 's and ---s' for possession, how it's used for contractions etc. A lot of people seem to just put in 's for all plurals, particularly on signage.

You also see things like quotation marks being used to emphasise things, when it makes them look like they're talking hypothetically. "Sale" now on!

There's even a Facebook group called the Redundant Proof Readers Society if you want to have a laugh at some of the signage people encounter.

It's as unique to Ireland as walking into a lamppost while tweeting on your smartphone.

That should surely be grocers' apostrophe since it was not a singular grocer that scattered apostrophes amongst his fruit and veg.

The Irish and 'Its' and 'It's'

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