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Cocaine

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    #182
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thank You Come Again wrote: »
    Imagine actually putting random **** into your body, AND willingly giving money to subhuman drug dealers.

    Inb4 'hurr u drink beer! Dats just as bad!' No, it's not the same.

    You do realise that’s an argument for legalization?

    It’s only “random ****” of uncertain provenance because of prohibition.
    Legalisation and regulation removes that additional layer of risk.


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    #183
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dartboardio wrote: »
    It agrees with others and doesn't.

    I hate cannabis, I smoked it for years and it made me anxious, and paranoid from smoking it long term.

    It shouldn't be legalised imo. Also makes people very lazy and generally lose brain cells.

    Something didn’t work for you so it should be banned for everybody else including those who can handle it no problem?

    How considerate.


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    #184
    Doctor Nick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭Doctor Nick


    tuxy wrote: »
    Headshops were a result of prohibition.
    They sold weird analogues and newly discovered chemicals labelled as bath salts and plant food. Of course these things would have an awful impact on the health of many. These substances were not even what people really wanted to buy given the choice of this or mainstream drugs.

    Yep, headshops did nasty stuff. Even the long term addicts used to say it was much worse than the illegal stuff. Unfortunately, I still indulged and that was my demise as ultimately they led to a 6 year heroin habit.


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    #185
    BurnUp78
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭BurnUp78


    Doctor Nick wrote: »
    Yep, headshops did nasty stuff. Even the long term addicts used to say it was much worse than the illegal stuff. Unfortunately, I still indulged and that was my demise as ultimately they led to a 6 year heroin habit.

    I was 15/16 and down in the head shop smoking the synthetic weed everyday after school, crazy high off the stuff was more like tripping than getting stoned!


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    #186
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't think people are shocked by such changes anymore. It's been gradually going that way for decades... but then, I guess there's a general apathy about the changes because the hard-line stance hasn't worked. The banning of drugs hasn't removed them, and if anything, their presence has increased a hundredfold in the last twenty years. I can remember when Speed or E were considered the worst of the incoming drugs, with heroin being around but generally hidden away in derelict houses. Cocaine was the drug of the hyper rich. That's not the case anymore.

    The problem is that people want a polite friendly police force but don't want to give the Gardai the freedom to deal with the criminals in the manner they need to. I remember what Athlone was like in the late 80s/90s with the drugs and violent crime... the Gardai finally descended in force, and had a field day with those involved... Hardly a fair and gentle approach, but it cleared out the worst offenders for two decades after...

    People often consider harsher sentencing to be important, but don't want to appear too hard on the criminals while they're inside, or worse yet, fully acknowledge that incarceration on its own doesn't work. So, we get lots of half arsed measures which ultimately do nothing but defer the problems on to the next generation.

    So, no... I don't think anyone with an ounce (no pun) of sense is shocked by how their neighborhood or Ireland has declined in the last few decades with regards to drugs or violent crime...

    This idea that drugs in country towns are a new thing is really not correct, I was aware anecdotally that Athlone had a big problem back then as you mention. Granted cocaine is a lot more pervasive these days it seems.


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    #187
    Apollinaris
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Apollinaris


    tuxy wrote: »
    Prohibition does not work, never has never will.

    Wise words. Death penalty does.


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    #188
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,873 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Apollinaris wrote: »
    Wise words. Death penalty does.

    So kill all users in order to cut demand, but then you'll have the loved ones of normal people who just dabbled getting depressed and possibly turning to drugs to cope with the loss of a loved one. So we'll kill them too. Where does it end?


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    #189
    Apollinaris
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Apollinaris


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    So kill all users in order to cut demand, but then you'll have the loved ones of normal people who just dabbled getting depressed and possibly turning to drugs to cope with the loss of a loved one. So we'll kill them too. Where does it end?

    I never said to the users. Users really need to take a long hard look at themselves though what the impact of their using is. Of course everybody says it’s only bit of a laugh and everybody does it anyways, so what’s the harm? If there was no using there would be very little violent crime , and no they shouldn’t be legalised.


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    #190
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,873 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Apollinaris wrote: »
    I never said to the users. Users really need to take a long hard look at themselves though what the impact of their using is. Of course everybody says it’s only bit of a laugh and everybody does it anyways, so what’s the harm? If there was no using there would be very little violent crime , and no they shouldn’t be legalised.

    Oh thanks for the good laugh! Unless you're being serious? In which case, can you provide evidence of said claim?

    I was a Garda, and while drugs (usually alcohol) were a contributing factor in some crime, there doesn't always have to be a connection. Yes, public order offences usually involved drink or a drug of some kind, but violent crime is not always committed because of drugs, or under the influence of drugs.


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    #191
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    This idea that drugs in country towns are a new thing is really not correct, I was aware anecdotally that Athlone had a big problem back then as you mention. Granted cocaine is a lot more pervasive these days it seems.

    When I was a teenager, it was easier to get cannabis than alcohol (apart from some cider, or paint cleaner). It was brought in with the traveller community, and we all knew someone who could hook you up. Awful quality mixed with all manner of crap but quite cheap. TBH, I wasn't really aware of harder drugs apart from Heroin until I went to college (Sligo first), where Speed/E was the drug of choice, although cannabis was still very common.

    There's a photo "hidden" in my parents attic, of my father/mother smoking a reefer while in the west of Ireland from the mid 60s. Always wondered until I saw the photo why my parents were so sensible about drug use... :D


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    #192
    Apollinaris
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Apollinaris


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Oh thanks for the good laugh! Unless you're being serious? In which case, can you provide evidence of said claim?

    I was a Garda, and while drugs (usually alcohol) were a contributing factor in some crime, there doesn't always have to be a connection. Yes, public order offences usually involved drink or a drug of some kind, but violent crime is not always committed because of drugs, or under the influence of drugs.

    I’m really glad I could made laugh an ex-Garda.


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    #193
    Thank You Come Again
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Thank You Come Again


    Batrachotox wrote: »
    You do realise that’s an argument for legalization?

    It’s only “random ****” of uncertain provenance because of prohibition.
    Legalisation and regulation removes that additional layer of risk.

    No it's not. Face it, pills and other drugs are never going to be legal. But hey, keep playing Russian roulette with your mdma that some retard made in his room.

    Feels good to be an adult and not have to get of my head to enjoy life.


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    #194
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,281 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    So kill all users in order to cut demand, but then you'll have the loved ones of normal people who just dabbled getting depressed and possibly turning to drugs to cope with the loss of a loved one. So we'll kill them too. Where does it end?

    Actually there is a cocaine "vaccine" in development. Once inoculated, it no longer has an effect. dAd5GNE is in clinical trial and may well be ready in 2025.


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    #195
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Apollinaris wrote: »
    Wise words. Death penalty does.

    Actually it doesn't. Otherwise China or the US wouldn't have such issues with drug usage. China has a zero tolerance policy regarding drug usage (unless you're incredibly rich, and even then, you're walking on a razor)

    Many people don't believe they will get caught. Even near misses, are notched up as bad luck and quickly forgotten. And then, there's the people who believe that they aren't afraid of dying, and regardless of whether that's true or not, they'll continue until they're facing the actual event.


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    #196
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Murder rates are usually higher in places that have it as punishment for murder.


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    #197
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    tuxy wrote: »
    Headshops were a result of prohibition.
    They sold weird analogues and newly discovered chemicals labelled as bath salts and plant food. Of course these things would have an awful impact on the health of many. These substances were not even what people really wanted to buy given the choice of this or mainstream drugs.

    How sure are you of this?

    As far as I recall, it was a lot of scaremongering from people who had no idea what they sold.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #198
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,873 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Actually there is a cocaine "vaccine" in development. Once inoculated, it no longer has an effect. dAd5GNE is in clinical trial and may well be ready in 2025.

    I wasn't sure if you were taking the pish or not, mainly due to the name of the vaccine, so I had to Google and you are not taking the pish! Interesting, but it still depends on the person taking it before taking coke? Couldn't see if it is intended to be a one off treatment or continuous.

    For anyone that wants to know, it basically uses your immune system to attack the coke before it passes the blood brain barrier and treat it like an infection, ie: get rid of it. Interesting indeed.


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    #199
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Thank You Come Again wrote: »
    Imagine actually putting random **** into your body, AND willingly giving money to subhuman drug dealers.

    Inb4 'hurr u drink beer! Dats just as bad!' No, it's not the same.

    What's the difference?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #200
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    How sure are you of this?

    As far as I recall, it was a lot of scaremongering from people who had no idea what they sold.

    How sure am I that most of the people that used head shop would have preferred the more well documented and researched mainstream drugs?
    I'm fairly sure. However there were a small minority that loved drugs like mephedrone from these shops.


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    #201
    Doctor Nick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭Doctor Nick


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    How sure are you of this?

    As far as I recall, it was a lot of scaremongering from people who had no idea what they sold.

    They were nasty. Especially mephedrone. A lot of addicts used to IV it and lost a lot of limbs. Of course, there is the argument they should never have IV'd it in the first place. Lots of it around even after the head shops closed although probably mixed with even nastier stuff.


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    #202
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,929 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    tuxy wrote: »
    How sure am I that most of the people that used head shop would have preferred the more well documented and researched mainstream drugs?
    I'm fairly sure. However there were a small minority that loved drugs like mephedrone from these shops.

    Mephedrone was a good buzz and very easily available during the halycon head shop days, you felt really awful the next day though. It was a fraction of the price of coke too, and you didn't need to worry about the quality.


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    #203
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    tuxy wrote: »
    How sure am I that most of the people that used head shop would have preferred the more well documented and researched mainstream drugs?
    I'm fairly sure. However there were a small minority that loved drugs like mephedrone from these shops.

    No, how sure are you of the claims you made in your previous post, obviously. They was pretty specific and I'm guessing you can't back then up.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #204
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Doctor Nick wrote: »
    They were nasty. Especially mephedrone. A lot of addicts used to IV it and lost a lot of limbs. Of course, there is the argument they should never have IV'd it in the first place. Lots of it around even after the head shops closed although probably mixed with even nastier stuff.

    While heroin addiction is awful it's reasonable safe if you get a known quantity of it with little adulterants.

    Many took mephedrone in place of MDMA also, it's a more dangerous substance and the users definitely would have preferred to have MD.
    People also don't want to deal with scummy dealers and that was part of the attraction of the headshops even though many of them were scummy in their own way.

    You can still get mephedrone even though it's illegal but it's rare enough as not many people like it over other substances.


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    #205
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    No, how sure are you of the claims you made in your previous post, obviously. They was pretty specific and I'm guessing you can't back then up.

    I can easily back up the claim that prohibition is not working.


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    #206
    Doctor Nick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭Doctor Nick


    tuxy wrote: »
    While heroin addiction is awful it's reasonable safe if you get a known quantity of it with little adulterants.

    Many took mephedrone in place of MDMA also, it's a more dangerous substance and the users definitely would have preferred to have MD.
    People so don't want to deal with scummy dealers and that was part of the attraction of the headshops even though many of them were scummy in their own way.

    You can still get mephedrone even though it's illegal but it's rare enough has not many people like it more than other substances.

    Mephedrone screwed me up big time and led to me dabbling with gear. I used to leave work and run to a head shop for a gram, in and out of the loo all day. Became a daily habit which proved very expensive. Destroyed inside of my nose too.

    I realise above was down to my own inability to control my intake and others could use only recreationly.


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    #207
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    I don't do cocaine but things are getting out of control with it. I don't see how decriminalisation/legalisation can be ruled out as a solution. With this could come regulation of how much is sold, and a reduction in the crazy violence. I mean I know people are hesitant because it would normalise it, but it's already quite normalised.

    I know people think comparison with alcohol is whataboutery too, but alcohol is a very potent and damaging substance that leads to violence. The two are comparable.


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    #208
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Raconteuse wrote: »

    I know people think comparison with alcohol is whataboutery too, but alcohol is a very potent and damaging substance that leads to violence. The two are comparable.

    I'm not big into drugs but I've done some in the past. Alcohol is only one that came close to killing me. And not just once but a number of times.
    It's a very potent drug and the difference between having a good time and putting yourself in a dangerous situation is small.


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    #209
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,241 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    tuxy wrote: »
    I can easily back up the claim that prohibition is not working.

    I'll bet you can. Wasn't what you was claimed in the initial post though, was it?

    Anyway, two strawmans prove my point, and we're done here. Good night.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #210
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    I'll bet you can. Wasn't what you was claimed in the initial post though, was it?

    Actually it was

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112275344&postcount=2


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    #211
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If the government were to legalise cocaine, maybe some other drugs, who exactly would sell it?
    Where would the sellers buy it?
    Would there be quotas of how much people could buy?
    What's to stop dealers from other countries coming here & buying in bulk?


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