Ethiopian Airlines Crash/ B737MAX grounding

L1011 wrote: »

I honestly think they'll never enter passenger service. The floor/seating rail issue that's being lost in the noise may be financially insurmountable (as in building a new aircraft is cheaper) and they could end up being nice cheap box shifters for the parcels firms.

I've thought that since the 2nd crash and the rumblings began regarding MCAS design and implementation issues raised by the test pilots.

As time passes and more of Boeing's ineptitude comes to light, it is less and less likely to ever return to service.

This is not just an optics issue, the amount of changes made that were grandfathered in makes the airframe as it stands uncertifiable without a separate type cert.

Based on all the issues raised to date and current certification requirements.
This is not possible.

L1011 wrote: »

I honestly think they'll never enter passenger service. The floor/seating rail issue that's being lost in the noise may be financially insurmountable (as in building a new aircraft is cheaper) and they could end up being nice cheap box shifters for the parcels firms.

I agree. and this constant drip-drip of new problems is really undermining my confidence in it. I'd consider myself fairly pragmatic and generally fully supportive that once regulators pass it, it's fine. But I think I'll be actively avoiding the max for a while if it does come back. I'll certainly be listening to the EASA and not the FAA.

Mebuntu wrote: »

I think the biggest question of all with the MAX is - given what we already know, let alone what we don't know, will there be anyone who will be willing/brave enough to put their signature on a dotted line?

Yes good point; whoever signs it off will be under immense pressure if anything goes wrong. They’ll want to 100% sure without any doubt, and I don’t know if it is possible.

Yet more and more crap just comes out about this aircraft every few days. Does anyone have a compilation of all the things and alleged crap that’s come out about this aircraft? I literally see it in the news articles every few days since it was grounded.

I’ve heard a lot of regular people I know who don’t follow aviation talk about this aircraft in conversation and on social media. I’m not so convinced that people will fly on it so easily, if it gets back to service in 2020 that is.

Social media has such a large effect and there was one article in particular about how Ryanair won’t let you know whether you’re flying on an NG or a Max which gathered a lot of attention from regular people in my life who said they wouldn’t be booking with Ryanair for sure as a result. Obviously after a few years, it’ll all die down but it will have a lot of problems at the start in my opinion.

This situation is truly unprecedented.

Nijmegen wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/business/boeing-dennis-muilenburg-severance.html
$62.2 million golden handshake for the now former CEOs efforts. The guy who ran commercial airplanes also got $14.75m. Both of them forfeited other awards but frankly when you’re getting those kinds of payouts...

He and the company will argue this was just part of his contract and enforcing an employment contract is nothing to talk about.

But nonetheless most of the working/middle class which is starting to revolt in many western countries will see this and find it obscene that any such payout can be included in a contract and regardless of performance (everyone will agree his management lead to awful human and financial consequences).

I think it is very symptomatic of what is currently breaking-up western societies.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yes, after his 34 years with Boeing he's contractually entitled to that payout he was vested in, Boeing did not give him a $30million payout that was not vested. If Boeing didn't pay him then he'd sue them in court and potentially get an even higher payout.

Is it right? Legally Yes, morally No.

As far as I see in the News this is pretty standard corporate operations for U.S and probably international company CEO's.

It is. The lack of any comeback for really poor performance is a difficult issue to sort. But as noted above, this sort of thing doesn’t help allay the “us and them” nature of the world these days re the elites who it seems are happy to run ordinary people into the ground for a few quid.

L1011 wrote: »

No, there is an identified problem that the seat rails are not up to the required G forces, which is likely not fixable without reeengineering the entire floor.

How does it differ from an NG floor? Could the NG be implicated?

And you may well be right about the existing MAXes becoming freighters - like when MD-11s were no longer acceptable for passenger service they got relegated to freight, with all that implies. The safety record of freighters is significantly worse than passenger airliners because of the way they are operated (and, it has to be said, outside of the EU the substandard operators who often fly them)

banie01 wrote: »

Proposed fine of $5.4bln for non-conforming slat tracks on @178 Max that had entered service.

https://news.aviation-safety.net/2020/01/12/faa-proposes-5-4-million-civil-penalty-against-boeing-over-nonconforming-slat-tracks-on-737-max/

Boeing really are enduring a shítstorm of epic proportions.

That’s million, which is nothing to Boeing.

Tomrota wrote: »

That’s million, which is nothing to Boeing.

Apologies.
My aggregator gave the headline as a bln

Agreed that $5.4mln is not a lot in the context of Boeing's pockets.

It does speak a lot to Boeing's QC and QA process and is in addition to the earlier $3.9mln fine imposed for this issue.

blackwhite wrote: »

Ryanair speculation they might take MAX deliveries in March/April.

Sounds optimistic to me - but maybe they’ve been given some indications from the US

Given that the Boeing are trying to push new Sims and training as part of the fix.
I'd be very curious as to how Ryanair are going to manage that training?

FAA clearance won't mean squat if EASA stick to their guns on the certification, so I really interested in how any q1 or q2 delivery schedule or return to flight plays out.

That is very disturbing. Jail the barstewards.

Inquitus wrote: »

Especially damning when Boeing and some US Senators questioned the proficiency of the Lion Air pilots in the wake of the crash.

Yes - actively discourage an airline from training its pilots, and then blame them for not having trained them enough, at this stage I don't know how worse it could look :-/

Quin_Dub wrote: »

All of the leaked info just shows an organisation wholly focussed on profits above all else.

A fundamentally broken corporate culture - Hard to know how they fix that without a wholesale clear-out across all levels of leadership.

Yep, the new CEO is part of the same culture that brought the Max to this point as well, he's hardly a new executive trying to sweep the decks clear.

David Calhoun, Boeing's new CEO, will receive a $7 million bonus if the company completes certain goals under his leadership, including bringing the 737 MAX back into service.

https://onemileatatime.com/boeing-ceo-bonus/