having trouble coping with intrusion

Xterminator · 15-01-2020 12:02PM

@ Stateofyou

but how does all of your statement help the OP? do you think saying "your feelings are valid " will make life easier for OP? Easier to adapt, easier to cope? Continue misunderstanding why people are asking these questions?

That is why most people on the forum have told the original poster that you cant say the irish are racist because they aske me about my home.
Patently its not true. As has been pointed out we also say that to people from the next parish/ county/ county/ solar system thus asking that question is not racist. (i mean you do accept there is a definition of what racist is, and that just because you think its racist doesn't make ir so!)

But the OP is perfectly entitled to not want to share certain details. Many posts including mine have contained advice on how to deflect and or refuse to answer questions that make OP uncomfortable. OP can change how they perceive the enquiries, and develop a strategy to deal with enquiries, and nosy people who don't take a hint.

I agree some answers have been less courteous than others but again this demonstrates why the OP should not be using the 'racist' label lightly. Because when you call someone a racist, they do react!

Stateofyou · 15-01-2020 12:22PM

Xterminator wrote: »

@ Stateofyou

but how does all of your statement help the OP? do you think saying "your feelings are valid " will make life easier for OP? Easier to adapt, easier to cope? Continue misunderstanding why people are asking these questions?

That is why most people on the forum have told the original poster that you cant say the irish are racist because they aske me about my home.
Patently its not true. As has been pointed out we also say that to people from the next parish/ county/ county/ solar system thus asking that question is not racist. (i mean you do accept there is a definition of what racist is, and that just because you think its racist doesn't make ir so!)

But the OP is perfectly entitled to not want to share certain details. Many posts including mine have contained advice on how to deflect and or refuse to answer questions that make OP uncomfortable. OP can change how they perceive the enquiries, and develop a strategy to deal with enquiries, and nosy people who don't take a hint.

I agree some answers have been less courteous than others but again this demonstrates why the OP should not be using the 'racist' label lightly. Because when you call someone a racist, they do react!

I have already posted my response to the OP in the thread.

I don't like reading the rude and belittling responses the OP is getting in some responses so I'm pointing out what I shouldn't have to - the OP is entitled to their feelings with regard to their actual experience. Maybe the OP isn't misunderstanding per se, maybe the tones used actually ARE rude and the questions continue to be intrusive because they aren't listening to the responses being given. As I said in my earlier post to the OP, people have blind spots and often can't see where they're being rude or intrusive. I think this post is an insight into the common plight of immigrants and should also serve as an eye opener to those of us reading. It's not just for the OP or any one of us individually to adapt to the world, we should all be taking on board the experiences of others and take some lessons from that, too. Just as I spoke about taking on board a lesson I learned not to ask intrusive questions about having children.

Yeah, people react very strongly to the racism word. It was asked because this person is a foreigner, that is THEIR experience and so the reactions and responses you get in that reality is often in that vein and thinly veiled. I've also learned that too through my experiences and conversations with others. Just because that makes some uncomfortable doesn't excuse the "discourteous" responses.

Rodin · 15-01-2020 12:25PM

chris525 wrote: »

This is a bit of a rant but it's something that I'm struggling with.

I moved to Ireland with my Irish husband in 2016. We did not like where we were living before and could not wait to get out of there. We HATED it.

Since I've moved here some people ask me "Do you miss home?".

Here's the problem I have with this:
It's kind of racist. Someone who did not grow up in Ireland cannot consider Ireland to be home? Do they view me as just some pitiful foreigner? When will I no longer be asked these questions? 5 years, 10+?

It's very personal. You know don't me, anything about me or my history, and my reasons for moving.

I moved a long time ago. I'm starting to forget what life was like in the past and I'm glad for that.

My house in Ireland that I've been paying for the past 3 years is my home.

Now it's not just the question that is the problem. It's the tone of voice, the obstinacy, and their unwillingness to actually listen to what I have to say.

For example, if they ask me "Do you miss home?" and I say "No, I don't" it doesn't seem to register in their head and they keep prying.

They say things like, "Oh, you married a foreigner". This puzzles me and is deeply personal. Where I'm from marrying someone from the Anglo-sphere is not really a foreigner and also I've only ever dated foreigners. I have never been in a relationship with someone from my own country. I can't help it; I'm just not attracted! Also, where I'm from there is mass immigration so there are a lot of different people living there. Why would they not know that about one of the G8 countries?

They go on further to say things like, "Do you miss your family?". This really puzzles me. I have a husband and 2 kids here in Ireland with me. Are they not my family? I'm assuming they mean my extended relatives. "No, I don't".

"Do your parents come to visit a lot?" Parents plural? My father hasn't come around to see me in over 20 years and my mother is unstable.

What if:
you're just not a family person

you just don't like where you are from

your family of origin is crazy and dysfunctional

it's just too personal

etc. etc.

Will they judge you if they knew the truth?

These are things that someone you hardly know should not be prying into. It's nosy and rude.

Often times I'm not expecting to be asked these questions at all. It's completely random and I'm taken aback by it and not prepared.

I have a really hard time coping with the intrusion.

I haven't lived where Im from in Ireland for over 20 years but that is still where Im from and where I consider home. If asked where Im from, I don't say where I live. I say where I was born and raised.

The OP is far too sensitive in this topic.

Xterminator · 15-01-2020 12:26PM

rude does not equal racist.

Stateofyou · 15-01-2020 12:33PM

People need to stop asking foreigners if they miss home, simple as that. Some things you just don't ask people because it IS rude. You shouldn't ask someone if they're having kids when they're childless, or ask if a woman is pregnant/how far along are you who "appears" to be, etc etc. But these kinds of things happen ALL THE TIME until the lesson is learned. As I said before I have lived for years in a 'melting pot' culture and people don't ask questions like that. In fact, I distinctly remember being asked if I "missed Ireland." No one ever called it my home because obviously, my home was now there in that place with my wife and kids. Some people in this country could use a little wordly cop on tbh and realize that this place is home to a great many people, whether they're originally from another country or another county.

Call me Al · 15-01-2020 12:35PM

chris525 wrote: »

Well if someone said "No, I hate where I grew up and I don't miss my family at all." What you would think? You'd think they were a bit of a jerk.

Eh no, I would think they were being honest.

Irish people are historically a nomadic people. Many of us are born rurally, emigrate, and later return to live in a large urban centre.

Our use of language tends to differentiate between "home" ( where we are day to day), and "home home" kind of where your roots are from. We don't imply it in a racist way. About half of my friends here where we live are from elsewhere. We all still tend to say we are going home when we are going to visit parents down the country in "home home".

Xterminator · 15-01-2020 12:36PM

okay so lets plan a public education programme telling everyone in these islands that they should stop enquiring about if anyone misses home, whether from ireland or not (because it would be racist to single out foreigners) in the off chance someone might get offended.

and the OP should see the benefits of this within say a generation!

are you for real? how does that help the OP???

Stateofyou · 15-01-2020 12:38PM

Xterminator wrote: »

okay so lets plan a public education programme telling everyone in these islands that they should stop enquiring about if anyone misses home, whether from ireland or not (because it would be racist to single out foreigners) in the off chance someone might get offended.

and the OP should see the benefits of this within say a generation!

are you for real? how does that help the OP???

Don't be flippant and hyperbolic. There's no need to go OTT. Just learn the lessons in the regular course of life as normal. And maybe when you read about others' experiences, take that on board instead of dismissing, belittling or responding rudely. Do the best you can until you know better. And when you know better, do better. Simple.

Stateofyou · 15-01-2020 12:42PM

Call me Al wrote: »

Eh no, I would think they were being honest.

The OP has said this is not their experience normally, though. The OP has said her inlaws have responded badly in that regard too. Hence the sensitivity around it.

Sleepy · 15-01-2020 12:44PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

"Internet drama queens" pretty much sums up you POV, but it is a legitimate term and to say that the world isn't a fluffy cuddly place in relation to that term is belittling nonsense. We all know how the world works.

TRIGGERED
experiencing a strong emotional reaction of fear, shock, anger, or worry, especially because you are made to remember something bad that has happened in the past.

I know that's how certain sections of the internet (i.e. those who revel in their perceived victimhood) misuse the term. I'm just pointing out that the majority of people in the real world don't see things that way. It's like someone who's a bit hungover claiming they're "dying": it's hyperbolic attention seeking. It's a kind of behaviour that irritates most people in my experience.

Offense has been given, and it's not for you or I to decide, it's the impact people's words have whether they intended to offend or not.

No, it really hasn't. Offence has been *taken*. None was given.

People do not ask if you miss home or your family in order to offend someone. If they'd hurled insults at the OP, or made racist remarks etc. that would be giving offence. Asking an innocent question that touches on a part of the other's past is not malicious behaviour designed to cause offence and shouldn't be taken as such imo.

Here's what the OP says in the first post: "Now it's not just the question that is the problem. It's the tone of voice, the obstinacy, and their unwillingness to actually listen to what I have to say."

That is part of the problem, like it or not. This is their experience and you're only belittling it. Which is not allowed in this forum.

I'm asking the OP to reframe their thinking. I believe it would benefit them to do so. You're not a mod of this forum, have already been asked not to back-seat mod in this thread and your continued attempts to do so highlight the difference in our opinions: you seem to believe the world should change to fit with an idealistic view you hold of it where people don't inadvertently upset someone who's overly sensitive about things. I believe those who are overly sensitive need to grow a thicker skin and adapt to the real world and that they'll be happier if they do so.

antix80 · 15-01-2020 12:49PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

In fact, I distinctly remember being asked if I "missed Ireland." No one ever called it my home because obviously, my home was now there in that place with my wife and kids. Some people in this country could use a little wordly cop on tbh

You went to live in a different country that used words differently.. yes, that's a normal thing to happen in difference languages and cultures. Thanks for sharing your worldly experience!

But, FYI "home" can also mean "country of origin"/"the place where one was born or reared", while "home country" in British English (and by extension Irish English - but not necessarily other dialects or languages) specifically means "the country a person comes from" .. this is possibly causing confusion for you as well as the op.

woodchuck · 15-01-2020 12:58PM

Mod warning:

That's enough off topic bickering. Posters are reminded to only post if you have advice to offer the OP. If you can't abide by this basic rule of the forum, I'll need to close the thread, which won't do the OP any good.

@Stateofyou, I've had to snip another of your posts due to backseat modding. It is not up to you to police the forum stating what is/isn't allowed here. If you have a problem with a post, report it, don't call it out on thread. This will be your last warning.

DaeryssaOne · 15-01-2020 01:20PM

chris525 wrote: »

I've already seen many counsellors in my life and not one has ever helped me.

OP I think you should consider that maybe it's not that the counsellors are not able to help you due to a fault on their side but more that you are not open to changing your mindset and allowing the counselling to actually work.

A counsellor is no good at their job if they're going to tell you that your opinion is always correct and everybody else is wrong / rude / racist whatever the case may be. You really need to look past your victim mindset and start trying to see things from the other person's perspective.

I'm trying to say this in a kind way because it must be exhausting inferring slights and offence in so many parts of your life.

Stateofyou · 15-01-2020 01:55PM

Sleepy wrote: »

I know that's how certain sections of the internet (i.e. those who revel in their perceived victimhood) misuse the term. I'm just pointing out that the majority of people in the real world don't see things that way. It's like someone who's a bit hungover claiming they're "dying": it's hyperbolic attention seeking. It's a kind of behaviour that irritates most people in my experience.

No, it really hasn't. Offence has been *taken*. None was given.

People do not ask if you miss home or your family in order to offend someone. If they'd hurled insults at the OP, or made racist remarks etc. that would be giving offence. Asking an innocent question that touches on a part of the other's past is not malicious behaviour designed to cause offence and shouldn't be taken as such imo.

I'm asking the OP to reframe their thinking. I believe it would benefit them to do so. You're not a mod of this forum, have already been asked not to back-seat mod in this thread and your continued attempts to do so highlight the difference in our opinions: you seem to believe the world should change to fit with an idealistic view you hold of it where people don't inadvertently upset someone who's overly sensitive about things. I believe those who are overly sensitive need to grow a thicker skin and adapt to the real world and that they'll be happier if they do so.

Offense hasn't been given? The OP is offended and feeling intruded upon, so yes, offense was given. Again it's the IMPACT which matters, not the INTENT. Just because someone doesn't intend to offend someone, the impact can still be negative. And it's not for you to decide what is offensive, it's the person who's being impacted to decide, and everyone is entitled to their feelings based on their experience.

I could have said, right, the lady sitting next to me had no right to be offended at my innocent question about having children, she should grow a thicker skin because I meant no harm so why should I stop asking people intrusive questions. In reality, she did eventually get over it and I'm sure has learned to try and give a nonchalant answer, but she was obviously badly impacted. Because this is her experience, she has to deal with those questions all the time so accumulatively, it adds up. She was clearly having trouble coping in the moment after my question landed. INTENT vs IMPACT. But once I saw my impact, I realized that I could change my perspective and although I meant no harm, I told myself to never ask anyone that again and only speak to someone about it if they themselves brought it up.

I think there's some great advice being given here. The OP can take from that and hopefully better squash some of what is happening that is triggering for her. Some thickening of the skin is necessary, I agree. But I also think that we should expect others to meet halfway and not be insensitive and allow some personal growth. You can't just go around being offensive and tell yourself, 'well I'm not going to change so deal with it.' That's ridiculous. We can all do some reframing.

DaeryssaOne · 15-01-2020 02:58PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

Offense hasn't been given? The OP is offended and feeling intruded upon, so yes, offense was given. Again it's the IMPACT which matters, not the INTENT. Just because someone doesn't intend to offend someone, the impact can still be negative. And it's not for you to decide what is offensive, it's the person who's being impacted to decide, and everyone is entitled to their feelings based on their experience.

I could have said, right, the lady sitting next to me had no right to be offended at my innocent question about having children, she should grow a thicker skin because I meant no harm so why should I stop asking people intrusive questions.

I'm sorry but that is complete and utter rubbish and not constructive information for the OP. Just because offence is TAKEN from something does NOT mean offence was GIVEN.

By what you're saying - a person greeting you with 'good morning' could be completely offensive as you specifically are not having a 'good' morning and how dare they not be sensitive to that?

Asking a person about whether or not they are planning to have kids is an incredibly sensitive subject and should never be asked to somebody you are not close with - that is absolutely not the same thing as asking somebody if they miss home.

Stateofyou · 15-01-2020 03:10PM

DaeryssaOne wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is complete and utter rubbish and not constructive information for the OP. Just because offence is TAKEN from something does NOT mean offence was GIVEN.

By what you're saying - a person greeting you with 'good morning' could be completely offensive as you specifically are not having a 'good' morning and how dare they not be sensitive to that?

Asking a person about whether or not they are planning to have kids is an incredibly sensitive subject and should never be asked to somebody you are not close with - that is absolutely not the same thing as asking somebody if they miss home.

No one would take offense at a good morning, that's not a like comparison.
Have a read if you're interested:
https://everydayfeminism.com/2013/07/intentions-dont-really-matter/
(the first article that appeared in a google search, to highlight my point about intent vs impact)
And the OP has already clarified it's not JUST the question, but how it's asked and how her replies and hints at dropping it are ignored.

petros1980 · 15-01-2020 03:25PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

No one would take offense at a good morning, that's not a like comparison.
Have a read if you're interested:
https://everydayfeminism.com/2013/07/intentions-dont-really-matter/
(the first article that appeared in a google search, to highlight my point about intent vs impact)
And the OP has already clarified it's not JUST the question, but how it's asked and how her replies and hints at dropping it are ignored.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Apt username - Stateofyou is right - bellend

woodchuck · 15-01-2020 03:52PM

Mod note:

As this thread has clearly gone to the dogs, I'm going to call it a day on this one.

OP I hope you can take away some useful advice from this thread between all the off topic discussions.

having trouble coping with intrusion

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