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Abolish car tax

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24567…10

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    #32
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    Cant be universal as the idea is to encourage users to buy ev or at least change towards petrol/hybrid. Therefore there has to be a distinction in the fee to own a type of car.

    That may have been the case years ago however it no longer applies as the car manufacturers themselves are dropping diesel cars from their line ups and moving to hybrids and EVs so in less than a decade diesels will no longer be an option. And people wont automatically go out and buy a new car just because the tax is cheap if they cant afford to buy a new car in the first place, people drive what they can afford. Tax should have no bearing on it. A universal tax would probably yield as much in returns as the current two-tier fcuked up system where the poorest are hammered and the richest awarded.


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    #33
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,159 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    saabsaab wrote: »
    It would come from the extra price of fuel! Tailored to fit. Another benefit would be that untaxed cars etc would be caught up in the net. Our C & E could be expanded as there would be savings in admin in road tax sections the local authorities.

    No it wouldn't really, as I said in the rest of my thread, pushing it on fuel will just encourage more and more fuel laundering as those who avoid taxing their car would probably be the first to seek out cheap laundered fuel too. You would also have droves driving over the border every day from nearby border counties just to fill up with cheaper fuel up North so avoiding any tax down here.


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    #34
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Its a pity that countries with ambition and who care for the enviroment, dont tell them diesel are done, way before 2030. because its the big markets they care about. If germany banned them, the us dont buy them, the uk ban them in many cities, like other countries, it might not make sense to keep producing them, in europe at least. of course a fortune has been spent on diesel and diesel technology, nowhere more so than germany presumably. would be great to see them banned, way before the irish timescale...


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    #35
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    bazz26 wrote: »
    No it wouldn't really, as I said in the rest of my thread, pushing it on fuel will just encourage more and more fuel laundering as those who avoid taxing their car would probably be the first to seek out cheap laundered fuel too. You would also have droves driving over the border every day from nearby border counties just to fill up with cheaper fuel up North so avoiding any tax down here.

    yeah unless you came to an all island agreement. Ill tell you what, drop motor tax and have fuel E2 a litre or higher, youd see a big difference in driving patters...


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    #36
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    That may have been the case years ago however it no longer applies as the car manufacturers themselves are dropping diesel cars from their line ups and moving to hybrids and EVs so in less than a decade diesels will no longer be an option. And people wont automatically go out and buy a new car just because the tax is cheap if they cant afford to buy a new car in the first place, people drive what they can afford. Tax should have no bearing on it. A universal tax would probably yield as much in returns as the current two-tier fcuked up system where the poorest are hammered and the richest awarded.

    Agree to a point (i have an 07 1.8 civic on old tax system and also an electric car so see both points).

    We still need to incentivise electric over hybrid to bring emmissions down dramatically, so there has to be additional benefits to purchaser. See Norway as an example. Our government on the other hand is reducing benefits before there is any critical mass at all. (3.8k seai grant for businesses was taken away)


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    #37
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭Blut2


    kennethsmyth wrote: »
    Yep if you follow this through its a very good way of transferring over the costs to any type of motor vehicle as more people take up ev.

    Standard rate of 100 for petrol
    Standard rate of 200 for diesel
    Standard rate of 50 for ev

    Further % tax on petrol and diesel as needed to disincentivise fosil.

    All of the above can be tweaked year on year to provide same taxation income to state.

    Thats a good, simple plan.

    100e for EV
    250e for petrol
    500e for diesel

    is probably better/more realistic though. More revenue raised for the exchequer, a reasonable minimum level (100e a year is fair for EVs), and enough of a difference in pricing to discourage diesel purchases for people unless they actually drive enough miles to make it worthwhile. ie fewer diesel SUVs driving around Dublin on the school run.

    They're going to have to revamp the current system ether way, given there are so many modern diesels on the roads now and they're so undertaxed.


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    #38
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,159 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    yeah unless you came to an all island agreement. Ill tell you what, drop motor tax and have fuel E2 a litre or higher, youd see a big difference in driving patters...

    That's all good from the perspective of those who do feck all driving, it makes little difference to them. But adding additional hardship to people who have to commute long distances to work is not a solution. Taxing your way out of a crisis is both lazy and not the answer.


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    #39
    kuro2k
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭kuro2k


    saabsaab wrote: »
    No. Putting the tax onto fuel wasn't tried before. Car tax was abolished on smaller engines from 1977.

    An additional charge was put onto the cost of fuel when the tax was abolished


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    #40
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    kuro2k wrote: »
    An additional charge was put onto the cost of fuel when the tax was abolished


    Not in proportion to the tax lost.


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    #41
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    bazz26 wrote: »
    That's all good from the perspective of those who do feck all driving, it makes little difference to them. But adding additional hardship to people who have to commute long distances to work is not a solution. Taxing your way out of a crisis is both lazy and not the answer.


    How do we reduce the dependence on fossil fuels? Encourage a switch to electric or fuel efficient vehicles. I would say extra excise duties is part of the answer.


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    #42
    fergus1001
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    Akabusi wrote: »
    The best we can hope for is the Tax we pay is spent wisely and efficiently. Sadly we are way off that, apparently there are plans for a dual carriageway between Castlebar and Westport, of all the infrastructure needed that would be well down my list.

    and Michel Ring is going to call it after himself apearantly " The Ring Road"


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    #43
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    bazz26 wrote: »
    That's all good from the perspective of those who do feck all driving, it makes little difference to them. But adding additional hardship to people who have to commute long distances to work is not a solution. Taxing your way out of a crisis is both lazy and not the answer.

    creating rip off housing, forcing people into commutes or to save a small bit on their mortgage, to spend that amount on a car with big depreciation , finance, tolls potentially and fuel costs etc aswell. Is just idiocy...


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    #44
    kuro2k
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭kuro2k


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Not in proportion to the tax lost.

    That's why they increased in charge in every single budget after. I believe they told people that they were introducing the small charge to cover admin cost... HA HA!!!!!

    If the Government drop motor tax and put it on the cost of fuel, they WILL reintroduce motor tax at a later date and we will be back where we started.

    I'm not really sure why you don't understand this


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    #45
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    saabsaab wrote: »
    It would come from the extra price of fuel! Tailored to fit. Another benefit would be that untaxed cars etc would be caught up in the net. Our C & E could be expanded as there would be savings in admin in road tax sections the local authorities.

    It's well over €1 billion and how exactly would councils maintain their section of the roads? It's a non-runner anyway because any party worth their salt would bring up 1977 and we've become a lot more clued into blatant gift horses and election buying.


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    #46
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the car manufactures have been massive benefactors, first of all diesel is the dream fuel and given very preferential treatment, people buy them in their droves. Then its found out to be the demon fuel and there will be a big push to PHEV and BEV... At least BEV is the endgame...


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    #47
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Beneficiaries - people who benefit. Benefactors support you financially and are nice to you!:D


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    #48
    Chippy01
    Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭Chippy01


    kuro2k wrote: »
    Government abolished the tax in the late 70's and added the cost to the price of fuel. Yay said everybody!!

    The following year a nominal fee was introduced............ this nominal fee was increased in following budgets and later became motor tax

    Do you really trust the government to not do the same thing again??

    I remember that.
    No more ROAD tax they said, we'll just put 'x' amount onto the cost of the fuel so that the more you fuel you use, the more 'road tax' you will pay.
    BUT, to keep track of the amount of vehicles on the roads, we will introduce a £5 per vehicle 'registration fee'.

    That £5 went to £10, then to £20.
    Then they introduced the old engine sized MOTOR tax. And the rest is history.
    Feckers never took the road tax back off of the fuel when they introduced the motor tax, did they?
    So now we pay twice for the same thing.


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    #49
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's well over €1 billion and how exactly would councils maintain their section of the roads? It's a non-runner anyway because any party worth their salt would bring up 1977 and we've become a lot more clued into blatant gift horses and election buying.


    The money would be raised through fuel excise. 1977 wasn't the same and is forgotten by most. Anyway the poll is showing a large number are in favour!


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    #50
    Silent Running
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    Electric car driver here. Fire away and put the motor tax on fuel. :D


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    #51
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    The polluter pays principle and carbon fines would favour this type of system. Not only that but it is fairer the more fuel and road you use the more you pay!


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    #52
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    saabsaab wrote: »
    The money would be raised through fuel excise. 1977 wasn't the same and is forgotten by most. Anyway the poll is showing a large number are in favour!
    Well excise already brings in about €4bn on fuel so you're looking to add 25% to the cost of fuel, i.e a cost of €2 a litre. Also how does your "plan" deal with motorist movement? At present the LA gets the tax for cars registered there. I'm sure there are many motorists like me, who buy in multiple LA areas. If you're say WW, MH or KE how can those LAs benefit if you buy your fuel in Dublin or WH?


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    #53
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the issue with electric cars is, the motor tax is as good as free, but far more importantly, so is the fuel!


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    #54
    MoashoaM
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭MoashoaM


    No point in naming a tax, or its purpose, if it ends up in a lottery for regions. It's our money. I'm happy to give to a service if I see the results.
    Roads where I live are in terrible condition.


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    #55
    Silent Running
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    the issue with electric cars is, the motor tax is as good as free, but far more importantly, so is the fuel!

    Well, the current tax on electric cars is €120. This is an emissions based tax, so it should really be €0.

    The fuel is only free at public slow chargers... for the moment. There'll be a charge for this sometime this year. Otherwise the payment is made through the user's electricity account.


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    #56
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    I personally would favour a slimmed down Government and reduced Government spending and slash and burn the public and civil sector. Reduce taxation and get rid of the majority of social programme spending and increase on infrastructure and law and order.


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    #57
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    theguzman wrote: »
    I personally would favour a slimmed down Government and reduced Government spending and slash and burn the public and civil sector. Reduce taxation and get rid of the majority of social programme spending and increase on infrastructure and law and order.
    So the 51st State?


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    #58
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Well excise already brings in about €4bn on fuel so you're looking to add 25% to the cost of fuel, i.e a cost of €2 a litre. Also how does your "plan" deal with motorist movement? At present the LA gets the tax for cars registered there. I'm sure there are many motorists like me, who buy in multiple LA areas. If you're say WW, MH or KE how can those LAs benefit if you buy your fuel in Dublin or WH?


    You forget that there would still be a charge also those who don't tax their vehicles would have to pay. I'm sure most people see that the benefit of not paying so much car tax even if fuel is higher cost.

    It wouldn't matter that it was bought in different counties as the revenue generated it would be allocated to LA centrally as required.


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    #59
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Silent Running wrote: »
    Well, the current tax on electric cars is €120. This is an emissions based tax, so it should really be €0.

    The fuel is only free at public slow chargers... for the moment. There'll be a charge for this sometime this year. Otherwise the payment is made through the user's electricity account.

    even if you charge it at home, it is as good as free v petrol or diesel...

    I dont think EV motor tax should be free. Its one thing increasing it when its E120 or whatever. If you make it 0 and then want to start taxing them, its going to be a lot more difficult politically...


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    #60
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    theguzman wrote: »
    I personally would favour a slimmed down Government and reduced Government spending and slash and burn the public and civil sector. Reduce taxation and get rid of the majority of social programme spending and increase on infrastructure and law and order.

    unfortunately this banana republic is the other extreme to that!


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    #61
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    is_that_so wrote: »
    So the 51st State?

    A country where the Government doesn't rob over 70% of your lifetime income on tax and a country where criminals should face justice, a country where you either get healthcare from the Government or else you pay for it privately. We have a disgraceful situation where you pay taxation through the nose at Nordic levels and get American style services. We get crap US style public transport, even worse healthcare and super liberal on crime. Basically unless you are on a €100k per year here you would be better off on welfare.


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