Abolish car tax

rabbitinlights

Wait until the government realise how much the disposal of EV batteries will cost them and the infrastructure needed to recycle them.

If you want to invest in some growth businesses, look up companies that recycle high capacity LiPo batteries, Retriev Technologies is the market leader (Previously Toxco).

saabsaab

BEVs are not a complete solution as you say, recycling them etc. A new power source is needed for a whole transfer to them. People should remember that there will be fines ( real money) for non achievement of our carbon targets and this is a good way to start.

Better to hit it at the source of pollution than in general taxation and encourage better use of f fuels.

kaahooters

saabsaab wrote: »

BEVs are not a complete solution as you say, recycling them etc. A new power source is needed for a whole transfer to them. People should remember that there will be fines ( real money) for non achievement of our carbon targets and this is a good way to start.

Better to hit it at the source of pollution than in general taxation and encourage better use of f fuels.

were already paying the "fines".

https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2019/0515/1049589-carbon-credits/

kaahooters

rabbitinlights wrote: »

Wait until the government realise how much the disposal of EV batteries will cost them and the infrastructure needed to recycle them.

If you want to invest in some growth businesses, look up companies that recycle high capacity LiPo batteries, Retriev Technologies is the market leader (Previously Toxco).

the batteries have nothing to do with the government, they go back to the oem provider for referb mate.

saabsaab

kaahooters wrote: »

were already paying the "fines".

https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2019/0515/1049589-carbon-credits/

True and we will be paying more so best to tackle it now.

bazz26

saabsaab wrote: »

Wasn't thinking FG but other parties might. It would be a sure fire vote getter. All would get the removal of the car tax. The current system penalizes those who do less mileage or use more fuel efficient cars!

How much is your average fuel efficient car costing to tax annually these days? I'd imagine the majority are around €190/€200 a year. That's alot cheaper than they were on the old engine based tax system 12 years ago.

If the purpose of your canvasing here for these cars to be motor tax free then it certainly is never going to happen in our lifetime. Slapping 15c a litre on fuel will simply not cover the shortfall left by removing motor tax. Motor tax is source of revenue that helps fund various public services. As long as there are cars there will be motor tax.

Taxing those who have to commute long distances out of existence to satisfy those who use their car occasionally or owns a second car as a hobby solves nothing. It just drives a bigger wedge between those who cannot afford and those who can.

Caquas

http://http://rte.ie/r.html?rii=9_21689112_53_13-01-2020

Caquas wrote: »

.....

Motor tax was introduced many years ago to tax a luxury but it was retained and massively increased even though a car is an everyday necessity for most families, especially those outside Dublin. Of course, politicians like to preach to us about the moral incentives in taxes - cut pollution, reduce drunkenness, stop smoking - and sometimes it’s true but that is not their real motive. Everywhere and always, the primary purpose of taxation is to bring money into the politicians’ hands. Have you ever heard a politician say we should cut some tax in order to incentivise some behaviour? No, weirdly enough, the only thing politicians do to change our behaviour is to impose taxes.

....

I didn’t realise that this year saw the introduction of a new car tax which is a perfect example of taxation disguised as virtue promotion.

Liveline today was swamped with callers complaining about the new NOX tax which ostensibly penalises pollution but, in the end, Joe agrees that it is just a scheme to clamp down on private car imports.

Its introduction was so sneaky that many people who had already imported the car still got stung for the new tax which is really unfair.

http://http://rte.ie/r.html?rii=9_21689112_53_13-01-2020

martyc5674

saabsaab wrote: »

Wasn't thinking FG but other parties might. It would be a sure fire vote getter. All would get the removal of the car tax. The current system penalizes those who do less mileage or use more fuel efficient cars!

How does the current system penalize either of those 2 demographics?

Less mileage = less levy paid at the pumps.
Fuel effecient car = less annual motor tax.

If the levies were placed on just the fuel or just the annual motor tax then one would be penalized more than the other.

saabsaab

As I said in the original post up to 15c per litre extra.

Perhaps 1 cent extra per KWh on non renewable electricity if there were any short fall. As greater numbers of EVs come on stream the lost revenue will have to come from somewhere.



If there was an oil crisis tomorrow and fuel went up 20 30 or 50c we would all have to pay it, if we want to drive as we do.

_Kaiser_

Caquas wrote: »

http://http://rte.ie/r.html?rii=9_21689112_53_13-01-2020

I didn’t realise that this year saw the introduction of a new car tax which is a perfect example of taxation disguised as virtue promotion.

Liveline today was swamped with callers complaining about the new NOX tax which ostensibly penalises pollution but, in the end, Joe agrees that it is just a scheme to clamp down on private car imports.

Its introduction was so sneaky that many people who had already imported the car still got stung for the new tax which is really unfair.

http://http://rte.ie/r.html?rii=9_21689112_53_13-01-2020

Joe is right. The 6.1 news had a segment on new car sales being down but imports/used being the highest yet last year and had some SIMI guy on practically gushing over the increased charges now in place

Idbatterim

Taxing those who have to commute long distances out of existence to satisfy those who use their car occasionally or owns a second car as a hobby solves nothing. It just drives a bigger wedge between those who cannot afford and those who can.

there are now cars that can do "long distance" for virtually no tax and fuel costs...

TheRiverman

kuro2k wrote: »

Government abolished the tax in the late 70's and added the cost to the price of fuel. Yay said everybody!!

The following year a nominal fee was introduced............ this nominal fee was increased in following budgets and later became motor tax

Do you really trust the government to not do the same thing again??

Tax was abolished on most cars by the newly formed Fianna Fail Government led by Jack Lynch in 1977.It was one of their manifesto policies and resulted in a landslide election victory.The cost was not added to the price of fuel.You are correct about the nominal fee.

runawaybishop

Idbatterim wrote: »

there are now cars that can do "long distance" for virtually no tax and fuel costs...

In five years time there may be used cars with a decent range, right now only new cars have anything reasonable. The infrastructure isn't in place yet either. We should be incentivising people, not punishing.

bazz26

Idbatterim wrote: »

there are now cars that can do "long distance" for virtually no tax and fuel costs...

So why don't you drive one yourself?

Idbatterim

bazz26 wrote: »

So why don't you drive one yourself?

I do miniscule mileage... Of course the issue with them, is price from new. Thats why I would totally support big increase in motor tax on petrol and diesel from next budget and use that to incentive electric. My primary point is, all of this "do big mileage" We live in ireland, you certainly dont do huge mileage unless your a a sales rep etc and even a 30kw hour leaf for 15k, would suit a lot of people. What will the excuse be now with 500km range cars? they cant do 510km without stopping?

Its like the argument with the "chape tax" who cant afford an 08 these days?! Thats what will happen with electric...

Idbatterim

bazz26 wrote: »

So why don't you drive one yourself?

my point is, people complaining about long commutes and fuel prices, well there are alternatives now... and have been for years for many people.

Geuze

Idbatterim wrote: »

electric. My primary point is, all of this "do big mileage" We live in ireland, you certainly dont do huge mileage unless your a a sales rep etc and .

AFAIK, the Irish drive the most in the EU?

There is a lot of long-distance commuting happening, due to the prevalence of one-off housing.

Geuze

Adding the 1bn motor tax to excise would mean a large increase in excise rates.

I haven't the time to do the sums now, but it would be big.

Bigdig69

There are other reasons to tax cars like this one

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/motor-tax-revenue-to-be-paid-directly-to-central-government-1.3327927

Did you really think you were getting water for free!!

bazz26

Idbatterim wrote: »

I do miniscule mileage... Of course the issue with them, is price from new. Thats why I would totally support big increase in motor tax on petrol and diesel from next budget and use that to incentive electric. My primary point is, all of this "do big mileage" We live in ireland, you certainly dont do huge mileage unless your a a sales rep etc and even a 30kw hour leaf for 15k, would suit a lot of people. What will the excuse be now with 500km range cars? they cant do 510km without stopping?

Its like the argument with the "chape tax" who cant afford an 08 these days?! Thats what will happen with electric...

Then surely you would benefit greatly from practically free running costs would you not or is the case of you don't fancy giving up your S Class for a Leaf but expect other people to run out and buy a Leaf?

Remember, the government are not just going to sit by and watch everyone switch to cheaper running electric cars. As soon as revenue from ICE cars drops and there is a significant uptake in EVs they will start slapping higher taxes on them. As long as there are cars there will always be ways to tax them.

runawaybishop

Idbatterim wrote: »

my point is, people complaining about long commutes and fuel prices, well there are alternatives now... and have been for years for many people.

There are no alternatives unless you spend 40k. Many people cannot afford that.

Idbatterim

bazz26 wrote: »

Then surely you would benefit greatly from practically free running costs would you not or is the case of you don't fancy giving up your S Class for a Leaf but expect other people to run out and buy a Leaf?

Remember, the government are not just going to sit by and watch everyone switch to cheaper running electric cars. As soon as revenue from ICE cars drops and there is a significant uptake in EVs they will start slapping higher taxes on them. As long as there are cars there will always be ways to tax them.

this is the issue, the car is worth so much more to me, than someone will give me for it. At least I highly assume that is the case, it has been my experience and everyone elses I know, when selling such cars... "oh, Ill "upgrade" to this car, will only cost X to change. While you get offered a bag of crisps and a tenner for your car on donedeal or adverts... usually after you have your new car sitting there, not going down that road again! holding onto what I have and going for the 4.8 twin turbo with only E1200 motor tax , as my next driver! near 450bhp for a mere E1200 is actually good value with our motor tax system, that must have been based purely on begrudgery, when it was conceived!



I agree with what you are saying about the decreasing revenue *per motorist. But there is no way, even increasing motor tax or electricity cost, that they will be able to claw anything like back, what they are going to lose...

Idbatterim

runawaybishop wrote: »

There are no alternatives unless you spend 40k. Many people cannot afford that.

no brand new alternatives you mean probably and that may be the case here, it is not the case in other countries...

Idbatterim

runawaybishop wrote: »

There are no alternatives unless you spend 40k. Many people cannot afford that.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mg-zs-ev-gets-extended-discount-offer-following-record-sales

E27,715 if you are in the uk...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mg-zs-ev-gets-extended-discount-offer-following-record-sales

https://www.albawaba.com/business/pr/impressive-all-new-mg-zs-ev-and-mg-hs-awarded-five-star-safety-ratings-euro-ncap

ednwireland

Idbatterim wrote: »

E27,715 if you are in the uk...

still about 27k more than i have in the bank or 20k more than the car i bought last april (which has now done 4 runs to yorkshire and back in the last 8 months)

runawaybishop

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mg-zs-ev-gets-extended-discount-offer-following-record-sales

E27,715 if you are in the uk...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mg-zs-ev-gets-extended-discount-offer-following-record-sales

https://www.albawaba.com/business/pr/impressive-all-new-mg-zs-ev-and-mg-hs-awarded-five-star-safety-ratings-euro-ncap

We aren't in the UK.

It has a range of about 200km in the winter when new, that's not enough to persuade rural commuters to change.

saabsaab

Poll closed. Two thirds in favour the basis of a clear mandate for change.



I think some against are a bit like the boy in School that wanted to get beaten up in the morning every day and was afraid that when it stopped he might be beaten up more at other times so wanted to stay with what he knew no matter what!

runawaybishop

saabsaab wrote: »

Poll closed. Two thirds in favour the basis of a clear mandate for change.



I think some against are a bit like the boy in School that wanted to get beaten up in the morning every day and was afraid that when it stopped he might be beaten up more at other times so wanted to stay with what he knew no matter what!

Because popularity is what we should base policy on.

Cheap fuel for me anyway, nipping over the border once a week to fill up. Pity the local businesses will all have to shut down.

Henry Ford III

saabsaab wrote: »

Poll closed. Two thirds in favour the basis of a clear mandate for change.



I think some against are a bit like the boy in School that wanted to get beaten up in the morning every day and was afraid that when it stopped he might be beaten up more at other times so wanted to stay with what he knew no matter what!

It's not a mandate for anything. Don't be silly.

It's merely a bunch of relatively high contributors to road tax expressing a desire to pay less.

ednwireland

saabsaab wrote: »

Poll closed. Two thirds in favour the basis of a clear mandate for change.



I think some against are a bit like the boy in School that wanted to get beaten up in the morning every day and was afraid that when it stopped he might be beaten up more at other times so wanted to stay with what he knew no matter what!

284 self selecting voters not exactly a statistically valid sample of anything