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Irish Over 50s & over 65s Championships

  • 17-12-2019 9:18pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭


    I notice that quite a few of the people entered for these competitions aren't currently paid up members of the ICU. I don't think that anyone who hasn't paid their subscription should be eligible to win prizes in these tournaments or in any others for that matter. :(


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭macelligott


    Quite a strong field.
    46 entries so far, including two former Irish champions.
    https://www.icu.ie/events/1292


  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    Who is Robin Moss??

    I've searched him in FIDE ratings database and he is coming up as English Federation.

    Anybody?


  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭macelligott


    Joedryan wrote: »
    Who is Robin Moss??

    I've searched him in FIDE ratings database and he is coming up as English Federation.

    Anybody?


    Robin Moss also played in the 50+ last year.
    It is not a closed event. Players from other federations are allowed to enter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    Robin Moss also played in the 50+ last year.
    It is not a closed event. Players from other federations are allowed to enter.

    Ah, so if I get this right, if he finished first then he is not awarded the title?

    Strange to see this going on in the Seniors, thought we eradicated this shambles in all Irish events a while back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    Joedryan wrote: »
    Ah, so if I get this right, if he finished first then he is not awarded the title?

    Strange to see this going on in the Seniors, thought we eradicated this shambles in all Irish events a while back.

    "Shambles" is a bit strong! Allowing non-Irish players was eliminated for the Irish Championship itself, but not for other events, such as the Irish Women's Championship, Irish Intermediate and Junior Championships, and, yes, the 50+/65+ Championship. Doesn't seem to do that much harm for these secondary events.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    zeitnot wrote: »
    "Shambles" is a bit strong! Allowing non-Irish players was eliminated for the Irish Championship itself, but not for other events, such as the Irish Women's Championship, Irish Intermediate and Junior Championships, and, yes, the 50+/65+ Championship. Doesn't seem to do that much harm for these secondary events.


    Doesn't seem to do much harm?????

    Are you having a laugh, I am trying to figure out the seniors and my head is hurting.

    Shambles is correct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    Joedryan wrote: »
    Doesn't seem to do much harm?????

    Are you having a laugh, I am trying to figure out the seniors and my head is hurting.

    Shambles is correct.

    ???

    I'm in favour of keeping the Irish Championship itself strictly closed (even strongly in favour).

    Other than that, who cares? OK, you do, but who else?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Jumping in here ... but if you want to have a strong competition you need to include all players who are prepared to turn up and play.

    It is a great game, don't spoil it excluding participants. Give everyone who wants to enter an opportunity to play.

    The best player wins.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,117 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Jumping in here ... but if you want to have a strong competition you need to include all players who are prepared to turn up and play.
    What if you want to have a competition to decide the best Irish player over 50 though?

    Would you allow a promising junior to play who wants to enter the event?

    I'm not in favour one way or the other on the matter (it's a decision for those eligible for the tournament), but I do think your argument is overly simplistic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Joedryan wrote: »
    Who is Robin Moss??

    I've searched him in FIDE ratings database and he is coming up as English Federation.

    Anybody?

    He was the unfortunate victim of this outrageous swindle http://view.chessbase.com/cbreader/2020/1/4/Game2065604109.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Jumping in here ... but if you want to have a strong competition you need to include all players who are prepared to turn up and play.

    It is a great game, don't spoil it excluding participants. Give everyone who wants to enter an opportunity to play.

    The best player wins.

    I agree! The more foreign entries the better as far as I'm concerned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Jumping in here ... but if you want to have a strong competition you need to include all players who are prepared to turn up and play.

    It is a great game, don't spoil it excluding participants. Give everyone who wants to enter an opportunity to play.

    The best player wins.


    How can that happen if the competition is to find the best Irish Senior?

    Not following.


  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    He was the unfortunate victim of this outrageous swindle http://view.chessbase.com/cbreader/2020/1/4/Game2065604109.html

    Nice


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    Joedryan wrote: »
    How can that happen if the competition is to find the best Irish Senior?

    Not following.

    If the competition was really mainly about finding the best Irish Senior, there wouldn't be parallel events featuring 4 Irish players rated higher than any in this event. It seems to be more a case of providing a good and enjoyable age-restricted event (at which it seems to be doing an excellent job), with the title thrown in as an added inducement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    zeitnot wrote: »
    If the competition was really mainly about finding the best Irish Senior, there wouldn't be parallel events featuring 4 Irish players rated higher than any in this event. It seems to be more a case of providing a good and enjoyable age-restricted event (at which it seems to be doing an excellent job), with the title thrown in as an added inducement.

    That is a good counter argument to be fair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    zeitnot wrote: »
    If the competition was really mainly about finding the best Irish Senior, there wouldn't be parallel events featuring 4 Irish players rated higher than any in this event. It seems to be more a case of providing a good and enjoyable age-restricted event (at which it seems to be doing an excellent job), with the title thrown in as an added inducement.

    Just because someone wins an Irish Championship (Senior , Junior or main) doesn't necessarily mean that they are "the best" in the category. Peter Wright won the darts world championship last week but I don't think anyone would say that he is better than Van Gerwen. Ken Doherty and Denis Taylor were world snooker champions. Khalifman won the world chess championship as did Max Euwe but I don't think anyone would have called them the best in the world. That is not to detract from the achievement of winning a title because you can only beat the people that are put in front of you. It is irrelevant that Baburin, Daly, Ryan, Wallace, Doyle etc are not playing in this years over 50s, whoever wins it is a worthy champion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    Just because someone wins an Irish Championship (Senior , Junior or main) doesn't necessarily mean that they are "the best" in the category. Peter Wright won the darts world championship last week but I don't think anyone would say that he is better than Van Gerwen. Ken Doherty and Denis Taylor were world snooker champions. Khalifman won the world chess championship as did Max Euwe but I don't think anyone would have called them the best in the world. That is not to detract from the achievement of winning a title because you can only beat the people that are put in front of you. It is irrelevant that Baburin, Daly, Ryan, Wallace, Doyle etc are not playing in this years over 50s, whoever wins it is a worthy champion.

    Sure, no question. But having a small number of non-IRL rated players doesn't diminish the title either, at least as far as I can see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    zeitnot wrote: »
    Sure, no question. But having a small number of non-IRL rated players doesn't diminish the title either, at least as far as I can see.

    It enhances it. It is always good to play against different opponents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    Well it seems everybody is happy then! ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Not much ambition shown by O'Connor or Delaney in the final game agreeing a draw in 14 moves when a win for either of them would have ensured at least a share of first place. I find it hard to understand, neither of them is that hard up for the prize money.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    Not much ambition shown by O'Connor or Delaney in the final game agreeing a draw in 14 moves when a win for either of them would have ensured at least a share of first place. I find it hard to understand, neither of them is that hard up for the prize money.

    Maybe they're more interested in the title? No IRL player can pass them now. (What is the tie-break system? Is there a tie-break system at all or do they just share the title?)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    zeitnot wrote: »
    Maybe they're more interested in the title? No IRL player can pass them now. (What is the tie-break system? Is there a tie-break system at all or do they just share the title?)

    Oh, I thought that Moss was eligible to win it but probably not since he agreed a draw in a position where he was two pawns up.That explains the quick draw .


  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭ishidaogo


    Any news of norms?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,117 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    WGM for Trisha and that was it


  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭ishidaogo


    cdeb wrote: »
    WGM for Trisha and that was it
    Well done Trisha. Very impressive performance.
    I particularly liked the win against the Ausrian.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    cdeb wrote: »
    WGM for Trisha and that was it

    Not quite: she also earned a WIM norm. And since that is her third WIM norm, and she has already reached the required rating, I think that means that she will now be a WIM, Ireland's first.

    Also, both she and Killian seem to have crossed 2300 during the events (Trisha yesterday, Killian today), and so (or rather, if so) both will become FMs.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,117 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Good stuff on Killian; he wasn't sure if he'd made it or not. Well done!

    Worth noting as well the performance of 11-year-old Kavin Venkatesan in the IM norm tournament - was only rated 1870 going into it, but scored 4/9 to gain (by my reckoning) 200 points and move to 2070.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    cdeb wrote: »
    Good stuff on Killian; he wasn't sure if he'd made it or not. Well done!

    Don't take my word for it! Here are my calculations from Excel (formatting a but messed up, but I hope it's intelligible):

    2278 20

    Ro Diff "400" Exp Res K (Res-Exp) R
    2225 53 53 0.57 1 8.6 2286.6
    2283 -5 -5 0.49 1 10.2 2296.8
    1815 463 400 0.92 1 1.6 2298.4
    2207 71 71 0.6 0.5 -2 2296.4
    2320 -42 -42 0.44 0.5 1.2 2297.6
    2307 -29 -29 0.46 0 -9.2 2288.4
    2175 103 103 0.64 1 7.2 2295.6
    2130 148 148 0.7 1 6 2301.6
    2418 -140 -140 0.31 0.5 3.8 2305.4

    The factor that usually complicates matters is if there is some other event that occurs first or overlaps the one in question. But that can hardly be a problem here.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,117 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Armstrong rounds 4 and 5 might actually be an issue - he drew against 1892 and 2142 ICU, so could well lose the 6 points unfortunately.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    cdeb wrote: »
    Armstrong rounds 4 and 5 might actually be an issue - he drew against 1892 and 2142 ICU, so could well lose the 6 points unfortunately.

    Definitely a problem. And they would be rated first.

    He would lose 9.2 or 11.2, depending on whether the November or December ratings applied, I think.


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