Irish Over 50s & over 65s Championships

sodacat11

I notice that quite a few of the people entered for these competitions aren't currently paid up members of the ICU. I don't think that anyone who hasn't paid their subscription should be eligible to win prizes in these tournaments or in any others for that matter.

macelligott

Quite a strong field.
46 entries so far, including two former Irish champions.
https://www.icu.ie/events/1292

Joedryan

Who is Robin Moss??

I've searched him in FIDE ratings database and he is coming up as English Federation.

Anybody?

macelligott

Joedryan wrote: »

Who is Robin Moss??

I've searched him in FIDE ratings database and he is coming up as English Federation.

Anybody?

Robin Moss also played in the 50+ last year.
It is not a closed event. Players from other federations are allowed to enter.

Joedryan

macelligott wrote: »

Robin Moss also played in the 50+ last year.
It is not a closed event. Players from other federations are allowed to enter.

Ah, so if I get this right, if he finished first then he is not awarded the title?

Strange to see this going on in the Seniors, thought we eradicated this shambles in all Irish events a while back.

zeitnot

Joedryan wrote: »

Ah, so if I get this right, if he finished first then he is not awarded the title?

Strange to see this going on in the Seniors, thought we eradicated this shambles in all Irish events a while back.

"Shambles" is a bit strong! Allowing non-Irish players was eliminated for the Irish Championship itself, but not for other events, such as the Irish Women's Championship, Irish Intermediate and Junior Championships, and, yes, the 50+/65+ Championship. Doesn't seem to do that much harm for these secondary events.

Joedryan

zeitnot wrote: »

"Shambles" is a bit strong! Allowing non-Irish players was eliminated for the Irish Championship itself, but not for other events, such as the Irish Women's Championship, Irish Intermediate and Junior Championships, and, yes, the 50+/65+ Championship. Doesn't seem to do that much harm for these secondary events.

Doesn't seem to do much harm?????

Are you having a laugh, I am trying to figure out the seniors and my head is hurting.

Shambles is correct.

zeitnot

Joedryan wrote: »

Doesn't seem to do much harm?????

Are you having a laugh, I am trying to figure out the seniors and my head is hurting.

Shambles is correct.

???

I'm in favour of keeping the Irish Championship itself strictly closed (even strongly in favour).

Other than that, who cares? OK, you do, but who else?

IAMAMORON

Jumping in here ... but if you want to have a strong competition you need to include all players who are prepared to turn up and play.

It is a great game, don't spoil it excluding participants. Give everyone who wants to enter an opportunity to play.

The best player wins.

cdeb

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Jumping in here ... but if you want to have a strong competition you need to include all players who are prepared to turn up and play.

What if you want to have a competition to decide the best Irish player over 50 though?

Would you allow a promising junior to play who wants to enter the event?

I'm not in favour one way or the other on the matter (it's a decision for those eligible for the tournament), but I do think your argument is overly simplistic.

sodacat11

Joedryan wrote: »

Who is Robin Moss??

I've searched him in FIDE ratings database and he is coming up as English Federation.

Anybody?

He was the unfortunate victim of this outrageous swindle http://view.chessbase.com/cbreader/2020/1/4/Game2065604109.html

sodacat11

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Jumping in here ... but if you want to have a strong competition you need to include all players who are prepared to turn up and play.

It is a great game, don't spoil it excluding participants. Give everyone who wants to enter an opportunity to play.

The best player wins.

I agree! The more foreign entries the better as far as I'm concerned.

Joedryan

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Jumping in here ... but if you want to have a strong competition you need to include all players who are prepared to turn up and play.

It is a great game, don't spoil it excluding participants. Give everyone who wants to enter an opportunity to play.

The best player wins.

How can that happen if the competition is to find the best Irish Senior?

Not following.

Joedryan

sodacat11 wrote: »

He was the unfortunate victim of this outrageous swindle http://view.chessbase.com/cbreader/2020/1/4/Game2065604109.html

Nice

zeitnot

Joedryan wrote: »

How can that happen if the competition is to find the best Irish Senior?

Not following.

If the competition was really mainly about finding the best Irish Senior, there wouldn't be parallel events featuring 4 Irish players rated higher than any in this event. It seems to be more a case of providing a good and enjoyable age-restricted event (at which it seems to be doing an excellent job), with the title thrown in as an added inducement.

Joedryan

zeitnot wrote: »

If the competition was really mainly about finding the best Irish Senior, there wouldn't be parallel events featuring 4 Irish players rated higher than any in this event. It seems to be more a case of providing a good and enjoyable age-restricted event (at which it seems to be doing an excellent job), with the title thrown in as an added inducement.

That is a good counter argument to be fair.

sodacat11

zeitnot wrote: »

If the competition was really mainly about finding the best Irish Senior, there wouldn't be parallel events featuring 4 Irish players rated higher than any in this event. It seems to be more a case of providing a good and enjoyable age-restricted event (at which it seems to be doing an excellent job), with the title thrown in as an added inducement.

Just because someone wins an Irish Championship (Senior , Junior or main) doesn't necessarily mean that they are "the best" in the category. Peter Wright won the darts world championship last week but I don't think anyone would say that he is better than Van Gerwen. Ken Doherty and Denis Taylor were world snooker champions. Khalifman won the world chess championship as did Max Euwe but I don't think anyone would have called them the best in the world. That is not to detract from the achievement of winning a title because you can only beat the people that are put in front of you. It is irrelevant that Baburin, Daly, Ryan, Wallace, Doyle etc are not playing in this years over 50s, whoever wins it is a worthy champion.

zeitnot

sodacat11 wrote: »

Just because someone wins an Irish Championship (Senior , Junior or main) doesn't necessarily mean that they are "the best" in the category. Peter Wright won the darts world championship last week but I don't think anyone would say that he is better than Van Gerwen. Ken Doherty and Denis Taylor were world snooker champions. Khalifman won the world chess championship as did Max Euwe but I don't think anyone would have called them the best in the world. That is not to detract from the achievement of winning a title because you can only beat the people that are put in front of you. It is irrelevant that Baburin, Daly, Ryan, Wallace, Doyle etc are not playing in this years over 50s, whoever wins it is a worthy champion.

Sure, no question. But having a small number of non-IRL rated players doesn't diminish the title either, at least as far as I can see.

sodacat11

zeitnot wrote: »

Sure, no question. But having a small number of non-IRL rated players doesn't diminish the title either, at least as far as I can see.

It enhances it. It is always good to play against different opponents.

Joedryan

Well it seems everybody is happy then!

sodacat11

Not much ambition shown by O'Connor or Delaney in the final game agreeing a draw in 14 moves when a win for either of them would have ensured at least a share of first place. I find it hard to understand, neither of them is that hard up for the prize money.

zeitnot

sodacat11 wrote: »

Not much ambition shown by O'Connor or Delaney in the final game agreeing a draw in 14 moves when a win for either of them would have ensured at least a share of first place. I find it hard to understand, neither of them is that hard up for the prize money.

Maybe they're more interested in the title? No IRL player can pass them now. (What is the tie-break system? Is there a tie-break system at all or do they just share the title?)

sodacat11

zeitnot wrote: »

Maybe they're more interested in the title? No IRL player can pass them now. (What is the tie-break system? Is there a tie-break system at all or do they just share the title?)

Oh, I thought that Moss was eligible to win it but probably not since he agreed a draw in a position where he was two pawns up.That explains the quick draw .

ishidaogo

Any news of norms?

cdeb

WGM for Trisha and that was it

ishidaogo

cdeb wrote: »

WGM for Trisha and that was it

Well done Trisha. Very impressive performance.
I particularly liked the win against the Ausrian.

zeitnot

cdeb wrote: »

WGM for Trisha and that was it

Not quite: she also earned a WIM norm. And since that is her third WIM norm, and she has already reached the required rating, I think that means that she will now be a WIM, Ireland's first.

Also, both she and Killian seem to have crossed 2300 during the events (Trisha yesterday, Killian today), and so (or rather, if so) both will become FMs.

cdeb

Good stuff on Killian; he wasn't sure if he'd made it or not. Well done!

Worth noting as well the performance of 11-year-old Kavin Venkatesan in the IM norm tournament - was only rated 1870 going into it, but scored 4/9 to gain (by my reckoning) 200 points and move to 2070.

zeitnot

cdeb wrote: »

Good stuff on Killian; he wasn't sure if he'd made it or not. Well done!

Don't take my word for it! Here are my calculations from Excel (formatting a but messed up, but I hope it's intelligible):

2278 20

Ro Diff "400" Exp Res K (Res-Exp) R
2225 53 53 0.57 1 8.6 2286.6
2283 -5 -5 0.49 1 10.2 2296.8
1815 463 400 0.92 1 1.6 2298.4
2207 71 71 0.6 0.5 -2 2296.4
2320 -42 -42 0.44 0.5 1.2 2297.6
2307 -29 -29 0.46 0 -9.2 2288.4
2175 103 103 0.64 1 7.2 2295.6
2130 148 148 0.7 1 6 2301.6
2418 -140 -140 0.31 0.5 3.8 2305.4

The factor that usually complicates matters is if there is some other event that occurs first or overlaps the one in question. But that can hardly be a problem here.

cdeb

Armstrong rounds 4 and 5 might actually be an issue - he drew against 1892 and 2142 ICU, so could well lose the 6 points unfortunately.

zeitnot

cdeb wrote: »

Armstrong rounds 4 and 5 might actually be an issue - he drew against 1892 and 2142 ICU, so could well lose the 6 points unfortunately.

Definitely a problem. And they would be rated first.

He would lose 9.2 or 11.2, depending on whether the November or December ratings applied, I think.