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Premier League Rankings

  • 20-12-2019 12:09AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭


    Hi Everyone,

    A while ago, I had an idea about taking the 20 Premier League Teams, and ranking them much like is done with the World Rugby Rankings. I took inspiration as well from the Football and Hurling Ranking Tables (Credit to laoisman11 and Hanalei for those great threads), and thought that maybe the Premier League would be an interesting one to do.

    The reality is, there is no definitive answer to who is the better team because it changes season after season, potentially even game after game, and that gives us fans possibly the best discussion points for the sport for decades to come.

    This ranking is not the end of that discussion, as no ranking system is absolutely perfect. No ranking system can prepare you for Leicester City to win the Premier League, nor that Crystal Palace would fight back to draw with Liverpool, going from three goals down to level in the space of nine minutes to derail their title ambitions. What this ranking system is designed to do, however, is reflect the strength of every team after such results and aid that discussion by taking a team’s performance and adding a rating to it. It is fluid, and past successes won’t mean that you have protection from a low rating in the future, nor will a good season for a normally lower table team still leave it languishing in the bottom of the rankings.

    The main problem associated with just looking at a league table is that it does not tell you about how a team earned the points it has at the end of a season. As it stands, a team winning one game and losing another is better than drawing two games, with each worth 3 and 2 points respectively. The points a team earned in the opening weekend of the season are worth just as much as the points they earn in the last game of the season, even though the latter is a far better indicator of a team’s strength at this point in time.

    Finally, the league table ignores the quality of the opposition. Currently, the team that sits bottom of the table defeating the league leaders is worth precisely the same as the league leaders defeating a team that sits bottom of the table even though the quality of the opposition they overcame to win is vastly different. It also fails to take into account the margin of victory, with a top team scraping a 1 goal victory being worth the same as a team pulling off a 3-0 win against the odds.

    This ranking system aims to give a better idea of how strong each team is at any point in time, and give answers to each of the problems mentioned above. It started from Arsenal v Norwich on the 15th of August 1992, or the start of the Premier League, and runs right up to today.

    So, for the first table:

    498023.jpg

    Liverpool have a clear lead on Manchester City, and Leicester have been the biggest improvers of the season which is no surprise given their form.

    If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,546 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Very nice, but does it come in any other colour scheme?

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    Very nice, but does it come in any other colour scheme?

    It can do :pac: Sorry if its too much


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,546 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    It can do :pac: Sorry if its too much

    Might just be me, very vivid colours though! As I say though, very nice and quite interesting.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    Might just be me, very vivid colours though! As I say though, very nice and quite interesting.

    I'll work on it :) Thank you very much, I'll keep updating this thread if people are interested in it, and I'll go back through the history of the Premier League when I figure out what people want


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭KaiserGunner


    Right, so this table in the op, is similar an idea to the power rankings in American sports, or am I getting confused here? You mentioned Arsenal V Norwich from 1992. Has that anything to do with this table?

    Edit. I now realise it is a table for this season so far. Just got confused that Arsenal were higher I’m this table, than the real table despite an awful season so far.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    I've gone blind :eek:


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,525 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    The league table provides me with all the info I need. Not particularly pretty at present but reflective of the quality of teams this season....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,989 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    It's actually very interesting. For any sort of ranking you need to 1st establish a base line. From there you get more ranking points for beating a higher ranked team and vice versa.
    Not sure how much of a factor home advantage is, but that's another coefficient that would need to be incorporated somehow.
    The importance of the game? Such as a derby, relegation battle, title decider, players being rested in anticipation of a European game. All factors which would need to be considered.
    Then injuries and suspensions.
    And legacy points such as utd or going back further even?

    All in all I think it's a cool idea. Would be interested in helping out. So many variables to put a value on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    Right, so this table in the op, is similar an idea to the power rankings in American sports, or am I getting confused here? You mentioned Arsenal V Norwich from 1992. Has that anything to do with this table?

    Edit. I now realise it is a table for this season so far. Just got confused that Arsenal were higher I’m this table, than the real table despite an awful season so far.

    Sorry for any confusion caused, it's basically just to show each teams estimated strength at this point in time much like the rugby system.
    I've gone blind :eek:

    It will be fixed, I promise
    Beasty wrote: »
    The league table provides me with all the info I need. Not particularly pretty at present but reflective of the quality of teams this season....

    Just to be clear, I never intended this to replace the actual table. The only thing I find with the league table is that Liverpool beating Watford and Southampton beating City are worth 3 points even though Southampton had much tougher opposition to overcome if that makes sense? And also, a team who performs brilliantly for the first half of the season and drops off majorly could out place a team who were consistent throughout
    It's actually very interesting. For any sort of ranking you need to 1st establish a base line. From there you get more ranking points for beating a higher ranked team and vice versa.
    Not sure how much of a factor home advantage is, but that's another coefficient that would need to be incorporated somehow.
    The importance of the game? Such as a derby, relegation battle, title decider, players being rested in anticipation of a European game. All factors which would need to be considered.
    Then injuries and suspensions.
    And legacy points such as utd or going back further even?

    All in all I think it's a cool idea. Would be interested in helping out. So many variables to put a value on.

    So back in 1992, every team was given a starting rating of 80 points as a baseline, except the newly promoted Ipswich, Blackburn and Middlesbrough who were given 70 points, and so has every newly promoted team since. Home factor is weighted as a 2 point advantage. Derbies and the such were not given a weighting because where could you define a line, and what constitutes a relegation battle that we can properly define. I'm not knocking the idea, but I wouldn't be comfortable doing it without knowing I was doing it properly.

    And for injuries, I could not find a record of injuries for each game so again I just felt I couldn't do a proper job for it.

    There is no protection for any team, if you underperformed for long enough, you drop regardless of how many title you won. It takes a few games but that is just to ensure the system is too reactionary to one result.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sorry for any confusion caused, it's basically just to show each teams estimated strength at this point in time much like the rugby system.



    It will be fixed, I promise



    Just to be clear, I never intended this to replace the actual table. The only thing I find with the league table is that Liverpool beating Watford and Southampton beating City are worth 3 points even though Southampton had much tougher opposition to overcome if that makes sense? And also, a team who performs brilliantly for the first half of the season and drops off majorly could out place a team who were consistent throughout



    So back in 1992, every team was given a starting rating of 80 points as a baseline, except the newly promoted Ipswich, Blackburn and Middlesbrough who were given 70 points, and so has every newly promoted team since. Home factor is weighted as a 2 point advantage. Derbies and the such were not given a weighting because where could you define a line, and what constitutes a relegation battle that we can properly define. I'm not knocking the idea, but I wouldn't be comfortable doing it without knowing I was doing it properly.

    And for injuries, I could not find a record of injuries for each game so again I just felt I couldn't do a proper job for it.

    There is no protection for any team, if you underperformed for long enough, you drop regardless of how many title you won. It takes a few games but that is just to ensure the system is too reactionary to one result.

    I think I can understand how its useful. If a team plays away to the Big Six in the first ten games of the season and loses to five of them and draws once, the real league table will have them further down than the ranking table, which will take into account the strength of the opposition, am I right?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I think I can understand how its useful. If a team plays away to the Big Six in the first ten games of the season and loses to five of them and draws once, the real league table will have them further down than the ranking table, which will take into account the strength of the opposition, am I right?

    Yes to a certain extent. Like say Watford had that run you mentioned, because they are so far removed from the quality of those teams, they would barely lose points and ( for example, they only lost 0.07 points for losing to Liverpool) so their rating is not too badly damaged, but if it was 6 teams around their rating, they would lose a lot more points because clearly they are not at the level of those teams and should be below them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    The fixture list for this weekend in hopefully a better colour scheme. Some close games on the card.

    498111.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    This weekends results

    498257.png

    The new ranking table after this weeks results

    498259.png

    Watford the big gainers after their win over Man United. Chelsea overtake Spurs as the new kings of London, and Crystal Palace lose 3 places after their 1-0 loss to Newcastle

    Last but not least, the new league table. Just 10 points between 5th and 17th, it's tight to say the least

    498258.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,249 ✭✭✭ardinn


    Im sorry to tell you, that is not a better colour scheme!

    Stop using neon!

    In all honesty, its stopping me actually looking at it!

    something like below or even black and white

    0965874634758.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    Okay, thank you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    The fixtures for the next 2 days, now with 87%* less garish colours. I really hope everyone finds these better to look at

    498405.png

    *Figure was plucked out of my arse


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,249 ✭✭✭ardinn




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    498540.PNG
    498542.PNG
    498544.PNG


  • Posts: 7,946 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Think your "played" are wrong... not that I fully understand this :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    Think your "played" are wrong... not that I fully understand this :(

    Yeah I made a mistake in the automation for this, I have it taken out for now and I'll fix it for after this weekends games. It doesn't affect the ratings though


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    498545.PNG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    498760.PNG

    498761.PNG

    498758.PNG

    Side Note: If Liverpool beat Sheffield United by 3 goals or more, they will overtake Manchester City's all time record of 103.57 they got in the last game of last season v Brighton & Hove Albion


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    Sorry for the lack of updates, had a lot of stuff come up that I had to deal with away from the computer. However, here's the updated standings after this weekend's results

    500049.PNG

    500051.PNG

    500054.PNG


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    zwgzcqn6ddb41.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    mdDjPQr.png

    0zmnuf4h16c41.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    ukjk17aa0qc41.png

    ssd0z7bacrc41.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,566 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    why is a home win against Norwich worth more than an away win against Sheffield United?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Quazzie wrote: »
    why is a home win against Norwich worth more than an away win against Sheffield United?
    Relative rating. There's only 14 rating points between Norwich and Spurs, there's 21 between City and Sheffield

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    e2f95f1gsqd41.png

    Just a new preview for the West Ham v Liverpool game


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    phwwk9vna7e41.png


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