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Do we have free will?

  • 18-12-2019 02:52PM
    #1
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭


    Or do our circumstances influence a lot? I saw a few of my classmates this week and they were basically the same as they were in secondary school.

    The smart lads are now in Trinity, UCD, doing j1's in America whereas the "wasters" as the teachers put it are going to the pub every day, selling weed etc..

    I always thought to myself how unjust it was to call them lazy because it seems that it's where they grew up. All the successful kids in my school grew up in well to do families/areas and they drug using kids grew up in less fortunate areas.

    Could these so called waster students just "buckle up" and be as successful as the students from good areas? Not as easily. Nothing to do with intelligence but influence from bad friends and parents.

    There's a lad who got 10a's in the junior cert in my school and I wonder, if he switched lives, parents, homes, and friends with one of the waster lads, would he have been as successful? I think not.

    Everything is predetermined


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Stevieluvsye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    Did you get a job yet?


  • #3
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Or do our circumstances influence a lot? I saw a few of my classmates this week and they were basically the same as they were in secondary school.

    The smart lads are now in Trinity, UCD, doing j1's in America whereas the "wasters" as the teachers put it are going to the pub every day, selling weed etc..

    I always thought to myself how unjust it was to call them lazy because it seems that it's where they grew up. All the successful kids in my school grew up in well to do families/areas and they drug using kids grew up in less fortunate areas.

    Could these so called waster students just "buckle up" and be as successful as the students from good areas? Not as easily. Nothing to do with intelligence but influence from bad friends and parents.

    There's a lad who got 10a's in the junior cert in my school and I wonder, if he switched lives, parents, homes, and friends with one of the waster lads, would he have been as successful? I think not.

    Everything is predetermined

    Everything is predetermined?

    Bullshit.

    If you come from a poor background and don’t have the same start at others, it can be more difficult. But if you get off your hole and apply yourself you can be a success.

    Of course much easier to wallow in self pity, and blame everyone else for your own failure.


  • #4
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,440 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    the quality of your threads have gone from poor to dog sh!te


  • #5
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,088 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the quality of your threads have gone from poor to dog sh!te

    But do they have the free will to create good threads or are they predestined to make dog shyte threads.


  • #6
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the quality of your threads have gone from poor to dog sh!te


    Use your free will and move on.


    Im getting sick of this fashion to slag off the OP every time they post.


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  • #7
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,440 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Your Face wrote: »
    Use your free will and move on.


    Im getting sick of this fashion to slag off the OP every time they post.

    quantity over quality, especially when its crap quantity, should get called out every single time.

    same way absolutely no one gives a crap about you "getting sick of" anything.


  • #8
    Stevieluvsye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    Your Face wrote: »
    Use your free will and move on.


    Im getting sick of this fashion to slag off the OP every time they post.

    The OP is a spoofer, a walter mitty, time and time again he has asked for advice which he receives and then moves on to the next bulls!it thread

    Wind your neck back in


  • #9
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    If you get off your backside, apply yourself to whatever is needed to achieve your goals, stop moping about and looking for things to blame and actually get on with getting on you can succeed.

    Free will? Of course you have it. Nothing in this life is predetermined.

    I come from a poor background, with no history of progression beyond primary school but I achieved my aims in life. Stop looking for excuses or shortcuts and take all the opportunities life in this country offers.


  • #10
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    Sara Gigantic Splinter wrote: »
    If you get off your backside, apply yourself to whatever is needed to achieve your goals, stop moping about and looking for things to blame and actually get on with getting on you can succeed.

    Free will? Of course you have it. Nothing in this life is predetermined.

    I come from a poor background, with no history of progression beyond primary school but I achieved my aims in life. Stop looking for excuses or shortcuts and take all the opportunities life in this country offers.

    Lol...then why are my classmates who came from less well off areas than the other lads not doing well? AFAIK, only two are in college?

    Are you blaming them? Why should they take responsibility?


  • #11
    PoisonIvyBelle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭PoisonIvyBelle


    I know plenty of kids I grew up with who were given every opportunity and they turned into pretty ****ty adults (and often "wasters") as a result, mainly due to expecting everything to be handed to them.

    Some of the most successful and soundest people I know had to work damn hard to get where they are and they appreciate every single thing they have. Also, by "successful" I mean they made their way on their own and working in areas they either love working in or "don't mind" working in for the sake of having a decent income and a life outside of work, not that they're raking in 6 figure salaries. Although, some are.

    Life can be really fcuking hard. Sometimes people are genuinely limited in what they can do for various reasons. And yes, that's unfair. But you can choose to look at it another way and work on building the best life you can with what you have and what you're capable of. That's free will.


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  • #12
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    I have free willy. On blu-ray.

    With bonus features


  • #13
    PoisonIvyBelle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭PoisonIvyBelle


    Bobblehats wrote: »
    I have free willy. On blu-ray.

    With bonus features

    I once won a free willy mug and tshirt for singing a song on the radio.

    WHO NEEDS X FACTOR.


  • #14
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    PoisonIvyBelle wrote: »
    I once won a free willy mug and tshirt for singing a song on the radio.

    WHO NEEDS X FACTOR.

    Is this willy mug for dipping your willy in, like that jaccuzzi thing for your nuts, or is it just a regular mug with a willy on it, could be just a regular dick pic or a famous willy, like Willy O'Dee perhaps? Maybe even Willy's willy for full meta willy madness.

    I don't really want to drink from a cock, but my own one would like a nice warm bath sometimes.


  • #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sara Gigantic Splinter wrote: »
    If you get off your backside, apply yourself to whatever is needed to achieve your goals, stop moping about and looking for things to blame and actually get on with getting on you can succeed.

    "can" is the important word there. Important enough that it makes me agree with you where I might disagree with others. Many others use the word "will" or "should" instead. Which I think precludes that maybe small % of people who on the surface do everything right - and still do not get out of the rut.

    We have to take full responsibility for maximising our potentials and possibilities. But statistically - some will still fail. Through no _discernable_ fault of their own.
    Sara Gigantic Splinter wrote: »
    Free will? Of course you have it. Nothing in this life is predetermined.

    The question inevitably comes down to endless posts about definitions. So I tend to avoid threads on the topic unless I am otherwise at a loose end. But it really does depend what you mean by free will.

    I am very far from convinced yet that we have free will in the sense most people on the street seem to mean it though. In fact I am sceptical on many of the concepts related to "I" that the average Joe might be subscribing to too.

    But my lack of belief in free will does not impact on my concepts of "taking responsibility" and "making choices" and "justice" and other constructs which pre-suppose we are the thinker of our thoughts and the author of our actions. Which I have noticed many people who get antsy around the "no free will" claim tend to assume is the case.
    Sara Gigantic Splinter wrote: »
    I come from a poor background, with no history of progression beyond primary school but I achieved my aims in life. Stop looking for excuses or shortcuts and take all the opportunities life in this country offers.

    Yay you! Well done on that. My brother was a drop out 4 months before the old Leaving Cert - living homeless on peoples boats in howth for awhile - and he used a combination of the FCA and FAS to drag himself up to his now two car - 4 kids - 6 bedroom house in the country - place in life too.

    I respect people not for finding the best or worst way to get to their dreams but finding _their_ way there. He did it in spades. Sounds like you did too.

    I am trying to get the same ideas into the heads of some kids I have started a "Jedi School" for recently. Basically I have created a Jedi Curriculum and am teaching them how to be Jedi. But at the core of it - is pretty much the message you have here above.


  • #16
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Time is an illusion. Everything has happened, will happen and is happening simultaneously.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #17
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Or do our circumstances influence a lot? I saw a few of my classmates this week and they were basically the same as they were in secondary school.

    The smart lads are now in Trinity, UCD, doing j1's in America whereas the "wasters" as the teachers put it are going to the pub every day, selling weed etc..

    I always thought to myself how unjust it was to call them lazy because it seems that it's where they grew up. All the successful kids in my school grew up in well to do families/areas and they drug using kids grew up in less fortunate areas.

    Could these so called waster students just "buckle up" and be as successful as the students from good areas? Not as easily. Nothing to do with intelligence but influence from bad friends and parents.

    There's a lad who got 10a's in the junior cert in my school and I wonder, if he switched lives, parents, homes, and friends with one of the waster lads, would he have been as successful? I think not.

    Everything is predetermined

    I'm reading a book about Warsaw 1944, I was wondering why you named yourself after a high ranking Nazi???

    Hans Otto Georg Hermann Fegelein (30 October 1906 – 28 April 1945) was a high-ranking commander in the Waffen-SS of Nazi Germany. He was a member of Adolf Hitler's entourage and brother-in-law to Eva Braun through his marriage to her sister Gretl.


  • #18
    Stevieluvsye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I'm reading a book about Warsaw 1944, I was wondering why you named yourself after a high ranking Nazi???

    Hans Otto Georg Hermann Fegelein (30 October 1906 – 28 April 1945) was a high-ranking commander in the Waffen-SS of Nazi Germany. He was a member of Adolf Hitler's entourage and brother-in-law to Eva Braun through his marriage to her sister Gretl.

    Ties in with post 5 here. OP is a crackpot

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110899476


  • #19
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    PoisonIvyBelle wrote: »

    Life can be really fcuking hard. Sometimes people are genuinely limited in what they can do for various reasons. And yes, that's unfair. But you can choose to look at it another way and work on building the best life you can with what you have and what you're capable of. That's free will.

    How can life be hard?


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    How can life be hard?

    The innocence of it all. You've scarcely had any contact with the real world.


  • #21
    PoisonIvyBelle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭PoisonIvyBelle


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    How can life be hard?

    I'm at a loss for words.


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  • #22
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Free Willy! He means do we have Free Willy.

    No, sorry Larry McKenna rented out the last copy and he's a prick for bringing back the videos late. We've just got in a copy of Home Alone 3 if you're interested though.


  • #23
    NSAman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Amazing how people end up after school. You could nearly guess those that were going to succeed and those that were going to end up managing the local garage shop.

    Much of it has to do with the person's drive to get away/do something different and ultimately be themselves. My classmates (most of whom) came from ordinary families, none too rich or too poor, had predetermined ideas of what they wanted to be, some became famous, some have become extremely wealthy, some own businesses, some work for others.

    For the most part, they are still the same people, with the same traits they had back in school back in the day.

    Our 25th class reunion was interesting. People flying in from all over the globe. It is funny how the richest guy, travelled the furthest, never opened up to what he actually does (very private individual who I have been friends with since school) while others were boasting about how "successful" they had become...(some of it was nauseating). Others were still stuck in the parochial mind set where everything local has the most importance in their lives (and nothing wrong with that).

    In all honesty, no one really shocked me about where they ended up, it always seemed to be a foregone conclusion for the most part.


  • #24
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    PoisonIvyBelle wrote: »
    I'm at a loss for words.

    You seem to have misunderstood what I typed. I wanted him to outline the various ways life is hard.

    I wasn't denying the fact that life is brutal/unfair.


  • #25
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,976 ✭✭✭amacca


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Time is an illusion. Everything has happened, will happen and is happening simultaneously.

    You already will say that before.


  • #26
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Everything that happens was always gonna happen that way.

    That’s I think what the OP is in about.


  • #27
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    How can life be hard?

    Easy.

    Don’t study, smoke weed, drink a lot, sit on your hole and feel sorry for yourself. You’ll soon find life will be hard.


  • #28
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    OP,

    You have opened 129 threads in a little over 4 months and posted an average of 4.3 posts per thread that you have opened (including posts in threads that you have not opened). It has taken me nearly 12 years to open 98 (surprised it is that much). And I am a sad bastard for working that out.


  • #29
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Of course we have free will, we have no choice


  • #30
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,669 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Social ladder trumps all I'm sure there are teachers better suited to run America than The Donald but they're just teachers not legacies.


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  • #31
    PoisonIvyBelle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭PoisonIvyBelle


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    You seem to have misunderstood what I typed. I wanted him to outline the various ways life is hard.

    I wasn't denying the fact that life is brutal/unfair.

    No-one can give you a complete list of every way that life can be difficult. The fact that you even want one might be indicative of where your problem lies.

    Also, you quoted me and I am not a "him".


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