Dream time. If you had €200 billion what would you spend it on?

16-12-2019 5:30pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

EVERYONE gets a motorway from their front door to their workplace.

Why is it such a sore subject that you’re the second one to get stroppy about it? The question is what I’D do with it, not what you would.

AAAAAAAAA · 16-12-2019 6:08pm

Airports
Dublin Airport T3 1.5
Dublin Airport Misc Improvements 0.5
Other Airports Misc Improvements 1

Ports
Misc 4

Power
3GW Nuclear Power Plant 15
Many Wind Turbines 5

Rail Package
Total Electrification (€4m/km) 13
MetroLink 3
DART Underground Extended Scope 8
Metro Orbital 5
Northern Line Quad Tracking (Drogheda) 1
Southern Line Quad Track (Bray) 1
Southern Commuter Double Tracking 0.6
Meath commuter 0.3
Western Line Quad Tracking (Maynooth) 0.5
Dublin Assorted Metros 10
Cork Commuter Rail and Light Rail 5
Limerick and Galway Light Rail 5
Galway Line Double Tracking 1
Re-engineering Dublin to Limerick Junction 3
Re-engineering Dublin to Belfast 2
Re-engineering Cork to Limerick 1
General Station Improvements 5

Road
Busconnects but better (everywhere) 5
M20 1
N25 1
M11 Bray to Kilmac 1
Assorted Local Projects 10

Housing
300,000 Government Houses 60

Beautification
Gussy the place up 25

Prison
yes 1

Hospitals
ok 3

Misc
Gussy my pocket up a bit 1

Total 199.4bn

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup · 16-12-2019 6:17pm

why does the prison need to be on an island? would hugely increase costs of supplying it. not like many prisoners are escaping the current prisons.

we definitely need thornton hall built, with a supermax high security portion for gang leaders who are still running stuff from inside the jails

AAAAAAAAA · 16-12-2019 6:23pm

The value of an escape from a prison island to the Irish film industry is incalculable

LeinsterDub · 16-12-2019 6:35pm

Rayna Slow Salami wrote: »

Hyperloop e.g. Dub-Galway in 17mins. Belfast to Cork 30mins (give of take a few seconds).
New Futuristic Green (car-free) High-rise city (also Central Hyperloop Central Terminal) at geo-centre of Island: Carnagh East

You misunderstood the question the 200 million is fictional your proposed solutions aren't meant to be

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-12-2019 6:59pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You misunderstood the question the 200 million is fictional your proposed solutions aren't meant to be

Tell that to the Indian Government who in July 2019, gave the final nod for construction of a Hyperloop train between Mumbai and Pune. It's a Government approved a consortium between Virgin Hyperloop One and DP World
https://www.railway-technology.com/features/will-india-be-the-first-to-see-a-hyperloop-one-train-in-action/
The proposed link connecting Mumbai and Pune (148km) will slash the current 3.5 hours travel time to under 35 minutes.
Initial open air track tests have alredy taken place in Vegas, 136mph within 2.2 seconds (clearly not at full potential yet).

As far as new eco-cities: there are dozens of examples from Dubai to China (285 of them) to look at, Songo the most significant. Even Morocco (Zenata) is having a go.

bk · 16-12-2019 7:03pm

tharlear wrote: »

I would take the 200billion and put in a national wealth management fund, should earn about 10 to 15billion a year.

Everything you said in your post is very, very true. What you are suggesting is basically what Norway has done with their oil and gas money.

Lord Fairlord · 16-12-2019 7:37pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why would you reclaim land from the sea?

In order to have new land to build on rather than building on perfectly good farmland with ever more urban sprawl.

AAAAAAAAA · 16-12-2019 7:38pm

Who exactly are hyperloops for though? Is there ever going to be a time that Joe Soap will be able to afford to use it? So far we've only seen tiny pods that hold maybe ten people at a time - what schedule spacing can these things safely have? 10 mins between pods? 1 minute? What's that in throughput, 600 people per hour?

What happens if there's an accident and the entire system loses vacuum? How long is it down for?

To me there are just a lot more questions than answers regarding these things

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-12-2019 7:50pm

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

Who exactly are hyperloops for though? Is there ever going to be a time that Joe Soap will be able to afford to use it? So far we've only seen tiny pods that hold maybe ten people at a time - what schedule spacing can these things safely have? 10 mins between pods? 1 minute? What's that in throughput, 600 people per hour?
What happens if there's an accident and the entire system loses vacuum? How long is it down for?
To me there are just a lot more questions than answers regarding these things

Or more answers, than questions:

➤ Low or no-maintence (no moving parts, or engineering needed in a vacum)
➤ Yes, pods are small, build area smaller, and cost (eventually) smaller.
➤ Extreme speed = high frequency = large mass of capacity.
➤ Vacums don't really have accidents, controlled automated environments, no issues with leaves on tracks, access or jumpers onto a sealed tube.
➤ Movement is by magnetic fields (in vacum) thus near instant stop/start in any emergency, loaded with sensors so fully automated movement, no drivers needed (no strikes).

Once India (or elsewhere) shows full-scale proof of concept as anticipated, the global orders will flood in, and so will project waiting times to access their technology and build teams.

AAAAAAAAA · 16-12-2019 8:03pm

>Movement is by magnetic fields (in vacum) thus near instant stop/start in any emergency

Good luck with that near instant stop from 1200km/h

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-12-2019 8:22pm

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

>Movement is by magnetic fields (in vacum) thus near instant stop/start in any emergency
Good luck with that near instant stop from 1200km/h

They can set the brake speed to whatever they want depending on emergency, and contents. Instantly controlled with the spin of a dial (remotely).

Normal de+acceleration force would be 0.5G (0-100kmph in 6secs) just the average Porsche leaving red lights. Very few cars or trains in existance can brake from 100 in 6secs.
Still slower than a 747 at takeoff (the 747 would however peak out at around 650mph, and even then only at around ideal air conditions of 30,000 feet).

Thus HP, is only 72secs (6secx12) upto 1200kmph (+) (uninterrupted and without lag). A F16 pulling from dive is 8G, so nowhere even near that force.

ncounties · 16-12-2019 8:37pm

Rayna Slow Salami wrote: »

They can set the brake speed to whatever they want depending on emergency, and contents. Instantly controlled with the spin of a dial (remotely).

Normal de+acceleration force would be 0.5G (0-100kmph in 6secs) just the average Porsche leaving red lights. Very few cars or trains in existance can brake from 100 in 6secs.
Still slower than a 747 at takeoff (the 747 would however peak out at around 650mph, and even then only at around ideal air conditions of 30,000 feet).

Thus HP, is only 72secs (6secx12) upto 1200kmph (+) (uninterrupted and without lag). A F16 pulling from dive is 8G, so nowhere even near that force.

Rough fag packet maths... at that speed, a "pod" would travel over 4kms from cruise speed to a full stop (when emergency braking). If there were an emergency, how many pods would have smashed into the thing that they are trying to avoid?

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-12-2019 9:36pm

ncounties wrote: »

Rough fag packet maths... at that speed, a "pod" would travel over 4kms from cruise speed to a full stop (when emergency braking). If there were an emergency, how many pods would have smashed into the thing that they are trying to avoid?

Roughly speaking (or sketched out on a napkin) how many stray dogs, cyclists, blown over bins, fallen trees, signal posts, loose chippings, snow, kamikaze jumpers or leaves on the track (on average)...
- Would you expect to find (within) a 'sealed vacum tube' laden with (in-built) sensors, cameras, monitors and automated safety controls.

I.e. "Airtight pods in vacum tubes don't really do derailments"

Naturally if one pod has to reduce speed, the one behind it would do also in synchronicity, even without the reliance of potential human error factors. Humans would be a 'secondary' fail-safe, compared to fully automated systems.

bk · 16-12-2019 9:45pm

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

In order to have new land to build on rather than building on perfectly good farmland with ever more urban sprawl.

I live less then 3km from O'Connell St and I'm surrounded by detached two storey houses and even empty fields and brown sites sitting their undeveloped.

We don't need to reclaim the sea, we just need to get over our fear of apartments and NIMBY's against building high. Dublin has loads of easy to develop land and could easily become far denser.

Having said that, moving Dublin port out of Dublin and further up the coast would free up a massive amount of city center land for high density development. A move many European cities have very successfully done already.

angel eyes 2012 · 16-12-2019 9:53pm

Build state of the art public hospitals but we charge private fees for people from outside of the State for their treatment. Opposite of the current Treatment Abroad Scheme.

We will compete with the US for their private patients and with the top European hospitals in Switzerland etc. We will pay the best wages for nurses and doctors to attract the best to work here.

I actually think we should do this anyway, it could generate more income for the State and industry overall.

ncounties · 16-12-2019 10:05pm

Rayna Slow Salami wrote: »

Roughly speaking (or sketched out on a napkin) how many stray dogs, cyclists, blown over bins, fallen trees, signal posts, loose chippings, snow, kamikaze jumpers or leaves on the track (on average)...
- Would you expect to find (within) a 'sealed vacum tube' laden with (in-built) sensors, cameras, monitors and automated safety controls.

I.e. "Airtight pods in vacum tubes don't really do derailments"

Naturally if one pod has to reduce speed, the one behind it would do also in synchronicity, even without the reliance of potential human error factors. Humans would be a 'secondary' fail-safe, compared to fully automated systems.

Let´s assume it's not at it's maximum speed - so 1,000kph. It takes 6 seconds to decelerate from 100kph. So 60 seconds to decelerate from 1,000kph. But the average speed during deceleration will be half the original speed. So, 500kph is 500,000 metres per hour, or 139 metres per second. 139metres * 60 seconds = 8,340 metres or 8.3km. So yeah, my rough maths were out... it's actually a longer stopping distance.

Now let's imagine we want to operate a line runs with safety in mine. Not only would you need a headway of 8.3km per pod, but you'd need some buffer too for the identification of issues... say 30 seconds (at top speed which would be 139metres * 2 * 30secs) which would be another 8.3km. The total distance between pods would need to be 16.6km.

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-12-2019 10:24pm

ncounties wrote: »

... it's actually a longer stopping distance....
.... The total distance between pods would need to be 16.6km.

None of this is relevant.
If one pod has to reduce speed at any rate, then next (or all others) will do so also, be default in relative terms, and in calculated pre-emptive synchronicity.

Indeed you could have a dozen pods within 5metres of each other, and if the lead one has to brake/accelerate, then all the others do so also, without any human intervention.
You've heard of automated driving in networked truck convoys? The whole advantage of these (many approved for live road trails) is very close sensory spacing, a 'convoy' so to speak playing follow the leader.

Bear in mind no foreign objects can enter a sealed vacum, capable of explicitly to handle down to 100 Pa of pressure. So the risk of encountering anything is very remote (unlike HSRail). Even external factors are very low, when encapsulated in twin tubes of steel. There are no interactions with other transport, weather or wildlife (force majeure).

Perhaps the single biggest rail safety advantage is the lack of level crossings, we've all seen the clips of chancers risking their lives as barriers come down at road intersections.
Recently someone even lost their head (actual head) when taking a peak out the window (no windows on HP), when entering a tunnel, ouch!

tharlear · 17-12-2019 12:10am

[QUOTEMovement is by magnetic fields (in vacum) thus near instant stop/start in any emergency

Good luck with that near instant stop from 1200km/h ][/QUOTE]

remember , speed does not kill, its the sudden lack of it that kills

LeinsterDub · 17-12-2019 9:53am

Rayna Slow Salami wrote: »

Tell that to the Indian Government who in July 2019, gave the final nod for construction of a Hyperloop train between Mumbai and Pune. It's a Government approved a consortium between Virgin Hyperloop One and DP World
https://www.railway-technology.com/features/will-india-be-the-first-to-see-a-hyperloop-one-train-in-action/
The proposed link connecting Mumbai and Pune (148km) will slash the current 3.5 hours travel time to under 35 minutes.
Initial open air track tests have alredy taken place in Vegas, 136mph within 2.2 seconds (clearly not at full potential yet).

Open air tests? I think we already have a name for that owe yeah a train.

bk · 17-12-2019 10:29am

Even if hyperloop can be gotten to work (a big IF), it still isn't suitable for an island as small as Ireland.

Hyperloop requires distances of about 400 to 500km between stops to make it feasible due to the high speeds and stopping distances. Cork to Dublin is just 220km (straight line), far too short for hyperloop. Maybe Cork to Belfast (direct, no stop at Dublin), but lets be honest, there is little or no demand for that journey.

And I honestly don't get why people seem to be so obsessed with hyperloop or very high speed trains between our cities. Our cities are relatively small and the distances between them relatively short and there really isn't much demand for high speed rail between them. And I say all that as a Corkonian living in Dublin who would greatly benefit from it.

Sure if we had 200bn we would make improvements to intercity rail. Get Cork to Dublin down to max 2h's consistently, maybe even 1:30h's and similar benefits for other routes. But there is certainly no demand or need for 30mins.

But all of this ignores where the real need it in our cities. It is mass transit to get into (from close commuter towns) and around our cities. Metros, DARTs, commuter rail, etc. These are what we need, not fantasy hyperloop intercity lines.

Harry Palmr · 17-12-2019 11:36am

Hyperloop is the new monorail!

Here's that scheme I mentioned before, Spirit of Ireland project (remember this)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_of_Ireland

It was intended as a power export scheme but no reason why it could be done for domestic consumption in this fantasy scenario

blanch152 · 17-12-2019 6:31pm

bk wrote: »

But all of this ignores where the real need it in our cities. It is mass transit to get into (from close commuter towns) and around our cities. Metros, DARTs, commuter rail, etc. These are what we need, not fantasy hyperloop intercity lines.

200bn, and you would have metro in Cork and Limerick as well as many lines in Dublin.

With the spare change you could build the M20 and the Galway bypass as the last two major road upgrades needed.

4068ac1elhodqr · 17-12-2019 7:54pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Open air tests? I think we already have a name for that owe yeah a train.

Well above ground (in vacum tube) on stilts, rather than below for that test, as the plans are to connect Vegas, or SF-LA using an underground only bored hyperloop. This test was only a very early proof of concept on 1.2km track that saw a 457kmph speed (not bad for starters).

Next test is due for Expo 2020 in Dubai, on 10km curved track.

bk wrote: »

Even if hyperloop can be gotten to work (a big IF), it still isn't suitable for an island as small as Ireland.
Hyperloop requires distances of about 400 to 500km between stops to make it feasible due to the high speeds and stopping distances.
Cork to Dublin is just 220km (straight line), far too short for hyperloop.

Incorrect.

And you'd better tell India who are currently building theirs, for two ciities at 134km apart. Also better call Dubai (to Abu Dhabi of just 120km) which will ferry passengers along the Arabian coast (12min journey, instead of current 1hr & 20mins)
If folks are at ease with the 0.5G de/accceleration, it could be enhanced, there is also the option to re-pressurise parts of the vacum, to introduce air friction if desired at end points. When used for cargo only, it can simply run at max.

Hyperloop would kill several birds at once (not literally, as there is no risk of a pigeon in the intake jet, unlike slower air travel).
House prices would lower and equalise, productivity would see a boost, congestion reduce, emissions reduce, tourism/leisure would also reap the rewards with an airport hub.

Lord Fairlord · 17-12-2019 9:11pm

bk wrote: »

I live less then 3km from O'Connell St and I'm surrounded by detached two storey houses and even empty fields and brown sites sitting their undeveloped.

We don't need to reclaim the sea, we just need to get over our fear of apartments and NIMBY's against building high. Dublin has loads of easy to develop land and could easily become far denser.

Having said that, moving Dublin port out of Dublin and further up the coast would free up a massive amount of city center land for high density development. A move many European cities have very successfully done already.

I live even closer to O'Connell Street; the low rise of the inner city is ridiculous I acknowledge. However I'm a strong believer in the right to acquire and keep private property and so would not support vast swades of private housing being knocked down for more density.

Moving Dublin port is an interesting idea; we should certainly make more of being on the coast. London did move their port downstream, however they ended up bringing a port back in to London as that's where people wanted to get their goods - possibly a different situation to us admittedly as London is in land a bit.

Lord Fairlord · 17-12-2019 9:18pm

bk wrote: »

I live less then 3km from O'Connell St and I'm surrounded by detached two storey houses and even empty fields and brown sites sitting their undeveloped.

We don't need to reclaim the sea, we just need to get over our fear of apartments and NIMBY's against building high. Dublin has loads of easy to develop land and could easily become far denser.

Having said that, moving Dublin port out of Dublin and further up the coast would free up a massive amount of city center land for high density development. A move many European cities have very successfully done already.

A correction to my reply; you weren't suggesting knocking down houses - my apologies. I agree with the better use of existing land.

ncounties · 17-12-2019 9:21pm

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

I live even closer to O'Connell Street; the low rise of the inner city is ridiculous I acknowledge. However I'm a strong believer in the right to acquire and keep private property and so would not support vast swades of private housing being knocked down for more density.

Moving Dublin port is an interesting idea; we should certainly make more of being on the coast. London did move their port downstream, however they ended up bringing a port back in to London as that's where people wanted to get their goods - possibly a different situation to us admittedly as London is in land a bit.

Where would we move it though that wouldn't be up in arms? Ignoring NIMBYs - Rush?

Lord Fairlord · 18-12-2019 5:27pm

ncounties wrote: »

Where would we move it though that wouldn't be up in arms? Ignoring NIMBYs - Rush?

The Rush area would make sense; we'd use the Port Tunnel but in reverse, with those trucks that need to deliver into the city from the port using it. I'd envisage environmentalists up in arms with any new port as well as NIMBYs though unfortunately. People need to come before wildlife IMO.

Thelonious Monk · 20-12-2019 4:52pm

I'd buy up a load of land in Ireland and plant native forest there, rewilding etc.
As well as most of the other things folk are suggesting here.

D.L.R. · 23-12-2019 5:00pm

Extensive Metro system for Dublin, at least 4-5 lines

Quad track Northern line & Kildare line, electrify entire network

Metro system for Cork, 2-3 lines

Fund Metro system in Belfast

Trams for Galway, Limerick & Waterford

City status for Drogheda, Dundalk and other large towns backed by major investment fund

High Speed Rail Belfast-Dublin-Cork

Irish sea rail tunnel Dublin Docks-Anglesey

Convert all Irish railways to standard/dual gauge

Dublin eastern bypass

Dublin east west road tunnel

Dublin outer orbital M

Cork M ring

Galway bypass

Cork-Limerick-Waterford road connections

Dream time. If you had €200 billion what would you spend it on?

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