How do we stop coal burning?

Ken Tucky · 16-12-2019 12:48PM

Is smokeless coal just as bad?? Stopped burning the other stuff but i am confused now!!!

Snow Garden · 16-12-2019 12:57PM

https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/6296-The-world-s-longest-burning-fires-China-s-unseen-story

Coal extraction remains a higher priority than putting out China's huge underground coal fires

They are monstrous, centuries-old infernos that issue thick billows of ash and smoke, and generate sinkholes that consume roads and homes without warning. Yet in spite of the dangers they pose, underground coal fires are some of the least known environmental disasters. China, the world’s largest miner and consumer of coal, has consistently downplayed the fires in its coalfields, considered the most severe on earth.

Drakus · 16-12-2019 01:02PM

Stop selling coal.

nthclare · 16-12-2019 01:18PM

There's not much money in coal to be honest, and in fairness the smokey coal does cause a lot of smog etc

I remember in the weather reports in the 80's there was smog warnings especially in Dublin.

No doubt there's a climate change and people need to do their fair share of work to keep the climate in check.

There's a lot of people unemployed and don't have much money to afford the new types of heating systems and facilities.

That's a lot of the problem, its ok for people who have really good salaries and a financial future ahead of them.
They're safe enough.

Its the person who will be absolutely crippled financially I have empathy for, say an old pensioner in Loop head or someone who's disabled and living in a nice village and have a right to be there.
And some simpleton saying these people should take away their dignity and ship people off to urbanisation.
Because we've a lovely apartment there for you, you'll love it.
Just wait until you see the interior, you will die...

That's leading to a less than utopian society.
Living all their lives in a place and then some numpty at the stroke of a pen can change your future or your last few years.

Its all the variables I find it hard to get my head around.

Bunny12345 · 16-12-2019 02:52PM

OP isn't talking about actual coal. Burn the coal/pay the toll is a racist phrase about women riding black men.

decky1 · 16-12-2019 03:57PM

Graces7 wrote: »

*************************************************

Thank you; this has needed saying for a long time..

By the way are folk here aware that pensioners and other low income folk get a Solid Fuel Allowance of E 22.50 a week, whereas the electricity allowance now covers the standing charge and maybe lighting only.

Guess what using for heating here...

I am burning smokeless but only as the community bus refuses to carry more than one 20 kg bag at a time and the real coal comes in 40 kg bags. It is grand once lit but hard to light..

I'm sure someone would deliver it for you, have used smokeless think it should be renamed 'Heatless Coal, not worth a fiddler's f--k.

Bobblehats · 16-12-2019 08:13PM

decky1 wrote: »

I'm sure someone would deliver it for you, have used smokeless think it should be renamed 'Heatless Coal, not worth a fiddler's f--k.

Am sure they’d be keen enough to deliver it out to even the remotest of outliers now. But you know what they say, there’s no smoke without fire.....

Capt'n Midnight · 16-12-2019 09:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Or until the wind doesn't blow. And it takes the output of 2000 wind turbines to equal the output of one nuclear reactor. How big a carbon footprint does building and installing 2000 wind turbines create?

Like I said the turbines are carbon neutral long before construction gets properly started on a nuclear power plant.

Wind is predictable. We have wind forecasts for the week ahead and can plan around it.

Unplanned nuclear shutdowns aren't. Especially if you are blind sided like the Korean parts scandal. Or nuclear being phased out of Italy and Germany because of something that happened in Japan. I'd expect the EPRs to be taken offline at some stage in the future over a design flaw or construction issues.

"Low thermal efficiency" what the hell is that supposed to mean?

For a variety of reasons different types of reactor are limited to a little above 500 degrees. So low Carnot efficiency. For Boiling water types it's even worse as the critical point of water is 374 C. Liquid sodium means you can go hotter but while the Phénix ran at 560 C there was a temperature drop across the heat exchanger so same difference. At room temperature a lump of sodium thrown into a lake will explode. Mildly radioactive liquid sodium at a temperature it's just about glowing a faint red is not your friend.

[quote"Efficiency and Reliability. A pellet of nuclear fuel weighs approximately 0.1 ounce (6 grams). However, that single pellet yields the amount of energy equivalent to that generated by a ton of coal, 120 gallons of oil or 17,000 cubic feet of natural gas, making nuclear fuel much more efficient than fossil fuels."
People really don't have a clue of the scale of this...[/QUOTE]Lucky for us pellets of nuclear fuel can be found in Nibbler's sand tray.

No wait !
Uranium is found in low concentrations so LOTS of mining and processing and concentrating. At one point 7% of the electricity in the USA was used in isotope separation. Add in the other inputs and nuclear isn't as efficient as you think.

Burnup rate is very low because after 75 years of large scale plutonium production breeders are still a technology of the future.

Capt'n Midnight · 16-12-2019 09:24PM

nthclare wrote: »

There's not much money in coal to be honest, and in fairness the smokey coal does cause a lot of smog etc

Down here coal has Solid Fuel Carbon Tax €52.67 per tonne

Up north it doesn't. 20 tonne of coal on a lorry and you are a grand up.

I remember in the weather reports in the 80's there was smog warnings especially in Dublin.

When it was bad you couldn't see the fourth street light

harry Bailey esq · 16-12-2019 09:32PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

0.1 ounce (6 grams)

You'd make a lousy drug dealer

Greentopia · 17-12-2019 04:42PM

Graces7 wrote: »

No idea what your post is about! Trust me those thrifty folk are delighted at the free power! And are more sturdily independent than most.

I used to get a whole lorryload of peats straight off the field and ditched the oil heating. Would have loved a turbine.

Sorry was being sarcastic following a previous reply to me telling me "away hippy" :rolleyes: and that nuclear power is the answer because I said I have friends who have taken control of their own energy supply by planting trees to coppice for firewood and have their own micro turbines, also that this is my intention too longterm. Whether that's off grid completely or not.

Don't mean you and I know it's costly for some people-especially older people to switch over to renewables, that's why we need more grants available to make it truley affordable for people on fixed incomes.

The Rest scheme is a start- but doesn't go far enough.

Why in 2019 can't individuals sell back excess energy they generate via renewables to the grid like they've been able to do for over a decade in the UK and most other European countries?? we're so far behind on this it's a joke.

I think it's great the people of Orkney are now more energy independent. We should have more of it over here by government incentivising and backing such schemes.

Greentopia · 17-12-2019 04:50PM

nthclare wrote: »

My sister in laws from Izhevsk, Google it!

I remember her first winter over here and she asked my brother about the box for keeping the house heated.

He said what box Cheslava?

Cheslava said in every house or apartment in Izhvesk there's a box for the heating.
He said ohhh the one with the on and off switch?
Bemused was he with his girlfriend now wife.

Nooo she said laughing, there's a box used for the heating it heats up all the water and rads.
Chuckling she said if she stays in Ireland she'll import the box, it cost basically near to nothing to work and it would cut the electricity bill down to maybe a hundredth of what you'd spend on one electric heater.

Id say an invention like that wouldn't go down well here, I know I know it could have been a mini reactor or something similar lol

No way would it be possible to have cheaper heating, cutting through all of the red tape etc

Is she talking about district heating perhaps? getting all the community's heating from one source, but you still have control over your own rads. Had that in other countries and worked very well with the facilities in boiler rooms in the huge basements of apartment building. They have it in Eastern Europe and Russia too.

Here developers would be too greedy and short sighted to have that. Sure you could have another two or three apartments where the basement service, laundry and storage facilities are in those countries :rolleyes:

Bobblehats · 05-01-2020 05:04PM

I reckon there’s more coal burning going on than we even dare realise. Indeed there is a coal burning culture, that is gaining traction and it is not until we see smoke billowing from our own children’s chimneys will it even begin to register.

The long term impact on the environment for some fleeting heat that’s almost as quick to leave you as it was to ignite?!...may be a burning passion for some but as an environmentalist and a conservationist I for one won’t back down on this matter until raise our standards and get some sense - cut the supply chain; and initiate the process of recovery.

05-01-2020 05:05PM

Hard to beat a coal fire.

Bobblehats · 05-01-2020 05:22PM

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Hard to beat a coal fire.

Difficult to repress when they’re all the rage.

Would you report a tell-tale trickle emanating from a compatriot’s quarters?

punisher5112 · 05-01-2020 05:27PM

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Hard to beat a coal fire.

Put a TV on the wall at fireplace level....

Play a fire....

Sorted...

donaghs · 06-01-2020 09:38PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Coal costs money, as does timber and turf and heating oil. There is no reason whatsoever that a house couldn't have electric radiators in all the rooms, and and electric fire in the fireplace and electric water heaters.
Could be a clean home, and you save 1500 a year from buying the coal, and the timber, and the kindling , and the heating oil. Yes you'll probably spend 1500 more on electric, but at least it's clean.

(1) how will all this extra electricity be produced?
More power stations, and what will power them? How long will it take to get them up and running?

(2) coals the most efficient solid fuel available to lots of elderly people to heat their houses and water. Whos going to pay to replace this?

Capt'n Midnight · 07-01-2020 11:45PM

donaghs wrote: »

(1) how will all this extra electricity be produced?
More power stations, and what will power them? How long will it take to get them up and running?

(2) coals the most efficient solid fuel available to lots of elderly people to heat their houses and water. Whos going to pay to replace this?

If you go on a mad insulate everything spree you won't need as much heat.

A coal fire is not very efficient. A lot of the fuel goes up the chimney as smoke.* Most of the heat goes up that way too. And the chimney is a draft inducer and will cause cold air to be sucked into the room.

* In one case for steam locomotives, which are a lot more efficient than open fireplaces, well over half the fuel was wasted if you put the foot down.

Graces7 · 10-01-2020 10:18PM

decky1 wrote: »

I'm sure someone would deliver it for you, have used smokeless think it should be renamed 'Heatless Coal, not worth a fiddler's f--k.

They do deliver; the community bus does but only once a week. I would not expect more than that way out here...That is fine as I have turf as well.

Disagree re "heatless; " it is hard to get going but then the heat is fierce and lasts a long time. Much better than ordinary coal.

Graces7 · 10-01-2020 10:21PM

Pensioners? Spree?

My solid fuel stove is grand. Back boiler, and the heat in the room is magnificent, and no open fireplace. Makes grand toast too... oh and runs radiators..

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If you go on a mad insulate everything spree you won't need as much heat.

A coal fire is not very efficient. A lot of the fuel goes up the chimney as smoke.* Most of the heat goes up that way too. And the chimney is a draft inducer and will cause cold air to be sucked into the room.

* In one case for steam locomotives, which are a lot more efficient than open fireplaces, well over half the fuel was wasted if you put the foot down.

How do we stop coal burning?

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