Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Eric Cartman · 15-12-2019 03:30PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He is PM because of FPTP. About as undemocratic a system as you can get. And Brexit is happening because Johnson and his ilk lied and lied in 2016. But it's all good.

Channel 4 did PR modeling. BJ would still be PM under that

Professor Moriarty · 15-12-2019 04:56PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Channel 4 did PR modeling. BJ would still be PM under that

Nope. Absolutely nope. From Channel 4's article about PR:

"One headline is that while the Conservatives would still have the lead in terms of seats, Labour could conceivably have formed a coalition government with other parties who promised to hold a second Brexit referendum."

In fact, according to the article, The Tories would have got 80 fewer seats. And nobody would have formed a coalition with them.

First Up · 15-12-2019 05:06PM

Not sure what purpose these inquests serve. The UK has made its own bed so let them just go and lie in it.

The EU is going full steam ahead and will simply cut the UK out of the picture. Ireland's job is to make the most of the opportunities (there are many) while making sure we are at the centre of a strong, cohesive and united union of 27.

Nobody that matters in the EU is thinking about the UK. They are gone; bye bye and we all move on.

biko · 15-12-2019 08:07PM

First Up wrote: »

They are gone; bye bye and we all move on.

Brexit backers block Westminster roads chanting ‘Bye-bye, EU’
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/pro-brexiters-block-roads-westminster-chanting-bye-bye-eu

Kidchameleon · 15-12-2019 08:14PM

biko wrote: »

Brexit backers block Westminster roads chanting ‘Bye-bye, EU’

Am I missing something? That article is from 8 months ago??

biko · 15-12-2019 08:22PM

Yeah, I couldn't find a recent one where Leavers caused mayhem.
Can you help?

Kidchameleon · 15-12-2019 08:35PM

biko wrote: »

Yeah, I couldn't find a recent one where Leavers caused mayhem.
Can you help?

I wouldn't be surprised if the article is BS propaganda anyway. Leavers were always pretty chilled. We won.

Professor Moriarty · 15-12-2019 09:12PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if the article is BS propaganda anyway. Leavers were always pretty chilled. We won.

It's not a football game.

biko · 15-12-2019 09:30PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's not a football game.

Elections are ALL about winning and losing

weldoninhio · 15-12-2019 09:30PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He is PM because of FPTP. About as undemocratic a system as you can get. And Brexit is happening because Johnson and his ilk lied and lied in 2016. But it's all good.

The person with the most votes winning is undemocratic??

Professor Moriarty · 15-12-2019 09:34PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

The person with the most votes winning is undemocratic??

Nope. Read again and slowly.

Tony EH · 15-12-2019 09:35PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's not a football game.

It is to some. The simple minded can only look at politics in terms of Team A and Team B and "their" team winning is all that matters. It doesn't really matter what policies are being touted either. All that matters is keeping the other team out.

Politics in the west is probably at its lowest ebb at present.

Professor Moriarty · 15-12-2019 09:38PM

Tony EH wrote: »

It is to some. The simple minded can only look at politics in terms of Team A and Team B and "their" team winning is all that matters. It doesn't really matter what policies are being touted either. All that matters is keeping the other team out.

Politics in the west is probably at its lowest ebb at present.

Exactly. If I'm winning then they're losing and that's all that matters. Cummings is a genius.

MadYaker · 15-12-2019 09:38PM

Tony EH wrote: »

It is to some. The simple minded can only look at politics in terms of Team A and Team B and "their" team winning is all that matters. It doesn't really matter what policies are being touted either. All that matters is keeping the other team out.

Politics in the west is probably at its lowest ebb at present.

Would explain a lot about the trump movement. Surely the 1930s / 40s was worse though.

Kidchameleon · 15-12-2019 09:40PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's not a football game.

Loser talk

biko · 15-12-2019 09:40PM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8237417/First-past-the-post-voting-system-undemocratic-warns-IPPR.html

The first-past-the-post voting system can produce “undemocratic” results, according to research by a left-leaning think-tank that warns that Labour could be returned to power in future elections despite winning fewer votes than the Conservatives.

Professor Moriarty · 15-12-2019 09:44PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Loser talk

I'm living in Ireland. I haven't lost anything.

biko · 15-12-2019 09:46PM

So it should be "Professor Muircheartaigh"?

Professor Moriarty · 15-12-2019 09:50PM

biko wrote: »

So it should be "Professor Muircheartaigh"?

Professor Ó Muircheartaigh.

Loafing Oaf · 15-12-2019 09:55PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Professor Ó Muircheartaigh.

An t-Ollamh Ó Muircheartaigh;)

biko · 15-12-2019 10:01PM

Mo bhrón múinteoir

Tony EH · 15-12-2019 10:13PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Would explain a lot about the trump movement. Surely the 1930s / 40s was worse though.

If by "1930s / 40s" you're talking of Germany, those people had very solid reasons for their voting choices. They had just come through the most devastating crash the world has ever seen and the country was in financial chaos where, literally, people were wallpapering their walls with the Mark because it was practically worthless. The political state of the country was disastrous and by the end of the Weimar Republic, the German people were desperate for anyone to try and get things under control. Along comes Hitler and the nazis who promises the sun, moon and stars to everybody.

We all know the rest.

However, that situation is not really comparable with today's, where we see people who are woefully ignorant of even their own party's, or team's, policies. But it simply doesn't matter as all they know is that they have to keep the other lot out, regardless of what their policies are too, even if they're agreeable.

It's absolute madness.

theological · 15-12-2019 10:20PM

Tony EH wrote: »

It is to some. The simple minded can only look at politics in terms of Team A and Team B and "their" team winning is all that matters. It doesn't really matter what policies are being touted either. All that matters is keeping the other team out.

Politics in the west is probably at its lowest ebb at present.

This election was fought on a range of policy issues. The one that decided it in the end was what each party planned to do about Brexit.

Was the problem because the electorate chose the wrong option in 2016, or was the problem because parliament was blocking its implementation?

It seems that the majority thought that the problem was that parliament was preventing Brexit from being implemented last Thursday.

20silkcut · 15-12-2019 10:21PM

Tony EH wrote: »

If by "1930s / 40s" you're talking of Germany, those people had very solid reasons for their voting choices. They had just come through the most devastating crash the world has ever seen and the country was in financial chaos where, literally, people were wallpapering their walls with the Mark because it was practically worthless. The political state of the country was disastrous and by the end of the Weimar Republic, the German people were desperate for anyone to try and get things under control. Along comes Hitler and the nazis who promises the sun, moon and stars to everybody.

We all know the rest.

However, that situation is not really comparable with today's, where we see people who are woefully ignorant of even their own party's, or team's, policies. But it simply doesn't matter as all they know is that they have to keep the other lot out, regardless of what their policies are too, even if they're agreeable.

It's absolute madness.

Britain is a hell of a lot bigger and better a country today than it was in 1973 after 46 years of EU membership.

If you said that to your average Brit today they would not agree or accept that.

It is one of the great contradictions of our time.

A people unhappy with their lot despite a vast improvement and development of their country.

It is why there is so little sympathy for their “plight” outside of Britain.
And we here in Ireland definitely don’t grasp or understand their dissatisfaction.

40 years of media lies is obviously one reason and glorification of their imperial history in their education system has to be another.

MadYaker · 15-12-2019 10:23PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Exactly. If I'm winning then they're losing and that's all that matters. Cummings is a genius.

Did you watch his talk on how they won the referendum in 2016? Very interesting insight into the man. He's abhorrent but very smart and has way more political nous than most actual politicians.

Tony EH · 15-12-2019 10:27PM

theological wrote: »

This election was fought on a range of policy issues. The one that decided it in the end was what each party planned to do about Brexit.

Well, I am talking about politics in general terms. Not necessarily about the British election which, yes, was primarily about a single issue.

As depressing as that reality is.

theological · 15-12-2019 10:31PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Well, I am talking about politics in general terms. Not necessarily about the British election which, yes, was primarily about a single issue.

As depressing as that reality is.

This is a reality that was created because of three and a half years of parliament attempting to ignore the referendum result on Brexit.

An election was granted and the people told parliamentarians what they thought. Ignoring the outcome of a referendum is more than likely going to give you a political backlash. Boris Johnson benefited from this backlash.

If there wasn't such opposition to Brexit within parliament the UK could have withdrew from the European Union nearly a year ago and there would be different political conversations.

Professor Moriarty · 15-12-2019 10:31PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Did you watch his talk on how they won the referendum in 2016? Very interesting insight into the man. He's abhorrent but very smart and has way more political nous than most actual politicians.

Taking Back Control was brilliant. The NHS bus slogan was a downright lie but it also got inside people's minds.

Tony EH · 15-12-2019 10:40PM

20silkcut wrote: »

Britain is a hell of a lot bigger and better a country today than it was in 1973 after 46 years of EU membership.

If you said that to your average Brit today they would not agree or accept that.

It is one of the great contradictions of our time.

A people unhappy with their lot despite a vast improvement and development of their country.

It is why there is so little sympathy for their “plight” outside of Britain.
And we here in Ireland definitely don’t grasp or understand their dissatisfaction.

40 years of media lies is obviously one reason and glorification of their imperial history in their education system has to be another.

Certainly, Britain has had many gains from both membership of the EEC and the EU and in fact, they had one of the best deals of any member state. They had a situation whereby they had one foot in and one foot out. They didn't even sign up to the common currency. So, to hear go on about the EU as if it has had some sort of dictatorial stranglehold over Britain is just mind boggling.

It's also, frankly, astonishing listening to former Labour voters saying that they held their nose and voted for Johnson and then in the same breath bemoan that nothing's been done for them in years and how austerity measures have devastated their communities.

It's like they don't know who's been in power for the last decade.

Tony EH · 15-12-2019 10:47PM

theological wrote: »

If there wasn't such opposition to Brexit within parliament the UK could have withdrew from the European Union nearly a year ago and there would be different political conversations.

The problem is they can't because they have no plan for how things are going to look after the plug is pulled and they also wanted to still avail of the perks while no being a member of the club. It's been the Conservatives who have dawdled over Brexit because Cameron's idiotic decision to just throw things into wind produced a result nobody in the party expected.

Brexit is like a toff who left an exclusive establishment in Mayfair in a strop, but still wants the free drinks at the bar.

Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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