Hate Speech Public Consultation

alastair · 15-12-2019 12:54PM

Snake Plisken wrote: »

A lot of the organisations on the Antifa side of the road get the majority of their funding from the government. Have a watch of the following, it's quite maddening how much of our taxpayers money is wasted on these NGO's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS4K63xW4OA

Once again - it’s money for services that is spent regardless of whether those services are contracted through NGOs or undertaken directly by state bodies.

15-12-2019 12:54PM

wellwhynot wrote: »

In 2012 a study found that two thirds of failed asylum seekers who arrived here had used fake names and were known to the British Border agency. A third had lied about their nationality. It also found that the majority had U.K. visas. An Irish official said it was ‘the tip of the iceberg’. The study was only conducted on failed asylum seekers in conjunction with the U.K. How can you do a back ground check on some one with no identification and who gives you a false name?

Coveney wants a million new people in the coming decades. I don't think he is too fussed where they come from.

alastair · 15-12-2019 12:55PM

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Not everyone on YouTube is a cretin working out of their mother’s spare room...

That one is though.

alastair · 15-12-2019 12:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Coveney wants a million new people in the coming decades. I don't think he is too fussed where they come from.

No doubt you’ll provide a nice link of Simon Coveney telling us about how he wants this million?

Boggles · 15-12-2019 01:02PM

alastair wrote: »

No doubt you’ll provide a nice link of Simon Coveney telling us about how he wants this million?

I imagine some cretin on youtube told him that.

Buy yeah the BBC are the enemy of the people.

Wibbs · 15-12-2019 01:04PM

Boggles wrote: »

There is no fúckery in England the likes of we see in the States with the news channels.

Well to be fair B yeah, at least on TV outlets America is absolutely crazy town when it comes to scary and overt levels of slant and bias. Some of their newspapers can be as bad, but on the newspaper bias front the UK wins the top spot there. Pick any story and if you want to read the polar opposite slant read say the Guardian and then the Mail. They beat the greatest minds in physics by proving the reality of alternate universes.

alastair · 15-12-2019 01:06PM

MadYaker wrote: »

You got a link to that study I’d like to read it. So far I don’t think anyone we’ve taken have turned to be violent criminals or terrorists but I do worry about the process. How can you vet someone if there’s no info on them?

The asylum claim investigation process requires that the identity of the claimant is established and their story is confirmed. If it’s not, then their claim is rejected. Those who’s identities are not established at the end of the process are issued with deportation orders, just like those who’s identities are confirmed, but who don’t meet the bar for protection.

alastair · 15-12-2019 01:11PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Well to be fair B yeah, at least on TV outlets America is absolutely crazy town when it comes to scary and overt levels of slant and bias. Some of their newspapers can be as bad, but on the newspaper bias front the UK wins the top spot there. Pick any story and if you want to read the polar opposite slant read say the Guardian and then the Mail. They beat the greatest minds in physics by proving the reality of alternate universes.

The Mail is it’s own alternate universe. It doesn’t need The Guardian as a counterpoint. And in any objective readings, theGuardian, with it’s uncontested liberal bias, is at least interested in the facts of events. The Guardian’s long-running series of online documentaries on Brexit and provincial Britain are a case in point - undisguised position of interviewer, but open and honest about the actual sentiment across the country.

https://youtu.be/t7Y02-03ZFU

15-12-2019 01:14PM

alastair wrote: »

Perhaps if you actually cast your eyes over the helpful links I’ve already posted, which make crystal clear that none of the above would qualify. You can vent all you like about Islam, you just can’t incite hatred against Muslims as a consequence.

What is hatred and who defines it? Is saying that it is an abhorrent religion not inviting or inciting others to hate it?

How is that not covered under what is described in your link?

alastair · 15-12-2019 01:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What is hatred and who defines it? Is saying that it is an abhorrent religion not inviting or inciting others to hate it?

How is that not covered under what is described in your link?

Once again:

...its sole purpose is to protect individuals and communities belonging to ethnic, national or religious groups, holding specific beliefs or opinions, whether of a religious or other nature, from hostility, discrimination or violence, rather than to protect belief systems, religions or institutions as such from criticism. The right to freedom of expression implies that it should be possible to scrutinize, openly debate and criticize belief systems, opinions and institutions, including religious ones, as long as this does not advocate hatred that incites violence, hostility or discrimination against an individual or group of individuals.

Wibbs · 15-12-2019 01:22PM

alastair wrote: »

Once again - it’s money for services that is spent regardless of whether those services are contracted through NGOs or undertaken directly by state bodies.

The difference is that state bodies are far more accountable and transparent. Or at least aim to be. Accountability in Irish NGO's has largely been based on the past trust placed in them by the Irish people(particularly in more religious days where many NGO's were religious charities in nature and seen as above board), latterly it's been more symbolic and with an eye to continue to receive government/tax payers funding. Turkeys won't vote for Christmas and these particular turkeys have a lot of friends and vested interests in play. Including one suspects a few in government and the civil service only too happy to have them operate outside what would be expected of government agencies. Less hassle and less work they might have to do themselves. That we have so many of them considering the size of our nation(as that lass in the UN noted with bemusement, when she understandably asked does every Irish person work for an NGO) is an interesting holdover from the past, but today is today and we should expect far more accountability if they're in receipt of so much taxpayer(and private charitable) cash.

RandomName2 · 15-12-2019 01:22PM

alastair wrote: »

No doubt you’ll provide a nice link of Simon Coveney telling us about how he wants this million?

That's not quite what he said. He said that the population would grow by 1 million and that he wanted half of that to be from immigration.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Yx7Q059nK086/

Not sure what this has to do with hypothetical hate speech laws though

alastair · 15-12-2019 01:27PM

Wibbs wrote: »

The difference is that state bodies are far more accountable and transparent. Or at least aim to be. Accountability in Irish NGO's has largely been based on the past trust placed in them by the Irish people(particularly in more religious days where many NGO's were religious charities in nature and seen as above board), latterly it's been more symbolic and with an eye to continue to receive government/tax payers funding. Turkey's won't vote for Christmas so and these particular turkeys have a lot of friends and vested interests in play. Including one suspects a few in government and the civil service only too happy to have them operate outside what would be expected of government agencies. That we have so many of them considering the size of our nation(as that lass in the UN noted with bemusement, when she understandably asked does every Irish person work for an NGO) is an interesting holdover from the past, but today is today and we should expect far more accountability if they're in receipt of so much taxpayer(and private charitable) cash.

“Or at least aim to be” 😂

It’s worth pointing out that at least some of the CERD Irish civil society delegation had to do an online fundraiser to get their delegates over to Geneva. It’s not a gravy train, no matter how much you’d like to present it as such. Not a cent of taxpayer money supported their attendance.

alastair · 15-12-2019 01:30PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

That's not quite what he said. He said that the population would grow by 1 million and that he wanted half of that to be from immigration.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Yx7Q059nK086/

Not sure what this has to do with hypothetical hate speech laws though

He didn’t even say that. He said that the estimates were that half of population growth over the next twenty years was from immigrants. Not that he wanted it. He said he was positive about it. That’s all.

TwoMonthsOff · 15-12-2019 01:38PM

Saoradh the organisation that condoned murdering a journalist in name of freedom were in attendance yesterday. How desperate are these rally for peace Idiots that they have to bus in knuckledraggers from the north. Coming down attacking Irish people on the streets of Dublin.

RandomName2 · 15-12-2019 01:46PM

alastair wrote: »

He didn’t even say that. He said that the estimates were that half of population growth over the next twenty years was from immigrants. Not that he wanted it. He said he was positive about it. That’s all.

I quote: 'I think that will be a really good thing'

Do I want ice cream? I think ice cream would be a really good thing. Did I say I wanted ice cream? No, I was just really positive about the scenario of having ice cream.

So yeah, he wants half of that to be from immigration.

As I said, I'm not sure what this has to do with hate speech (apart from the ominous tones that Coveney makes when saying that that figure of half a million should not feed into the 'politics of migration'). Just to be clear, he wants the migration, but does not want the politics of migration.

Wibbs · 15-12-2019 01:59PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Just to be clear, he wants the migration, but does not want the politics of migration.

Bless, talk about him being naive or plain disingenuous. One always follows the other. There isn't a single example among our European neighbours where it hasn't and doesn't and usually in a negative fashion.

Wibbs · 15-12-2019 02:02PM

alastair wrote: »

It’s not a gravy train, no matter how much you’d like to present it as such.

Five and a half billion euro per annum, that's a lot of gravy, how much of it is on the train is another discussion, but not exactly the easiest to tease out.

And you didn't respond to the rest of my post about accountability and the silly number of NGO's for a country this size.

15-12-2019 02:25PM

alastair wrote: »

Once again:

And once again, how do you define inciting of hatred ?

TwoMonthsOff · 15-12-2019 02:39PM

Joe Craig, axe attacker among the rally of peace yesterday, a British man looking to silence Irish people.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thesun.ie/news/3739750/man-attacked-woman-car-donegal-pays-compensation/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwiTxKWj47fmAhVYilwKHVfoCycQFjACegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1JoHlQnyxc18BMuQnbuAeR&ampcf=1

Take a look at J4MBðŸ’œ (@joecraig79): https://twitter.com/joecraig79?s=09

statesaver · 15-12-2019 02:53PM

The political wing of the New IRA Saoradh were at the rally for peace yesterday. Terrorists wanting to restrict freedom of speech. i'm just in knots laughing.
Looks like it's the luvvies infiltrated by far left terrorists.

TwoMonthsOff · 15-12-2019 02:57PM

statesaver wrote: »

The political wing of the New IRA Saoradh were at the rally for peace yesterday. Terrorists wanting to restrict freedom of speech. i'm just in knots laughing.
Looks like it's the luvvies infiltrated by far left terrorists.

They were invited it's no infiltration... even rte couldnt twist it to make if look good for the far left filth. A bad day for them by all accounts.

splinter65 · 15-12-2019 03:11PM

wellwhynot wrote: »

In 2012 a study found that two thirds of failed asylum seekers who arrived here had used fake names and were known to the British Border agency. A third had lied about their nationality. It also found that the majority had U.K. visas. An Irish official said it was ‘the tip of the iceberg’. The study was only conducted on failed asylum seekers in conjunction with the U.K. How can you do a back ground check on some one with no identification and who gives you a false name?

You’re not understanding at all. Once again I see that people don’t know the difference between an asylum seeker and a refugee.
The poster you are replying to is referring to people arriving here from refugee camps in Jordan and the Lebanon who have been pre approved for refugee status following thorough back ground checks.
If you can point me to where any of these refugees have proved to be any bother to us id be interested to hear.

Snake Plisken · 15-12-2019 03:21PM

alastair wrote: »

Once again - it’s money for services that is spent regardless of whether those services are contracted through NGOs or undertaken directly by state bodies.

Again it's a waste of Tax payers money. Seems like getting an NGO gig is a great way to get free money for doing very little.
Also The Catholic Church need to either shutdown or cut ties with Trocaire, again they stood with the far left groups yesterday then again they have been Pedaling the Hamas terrorists propaganda for quite a while now.

suicide_circus · 15-12-2019 03:27PM

alastair wrote: »

Fishwife is fishwife shocker!

hoisted on your own petard

15-12-2019 03:29PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

Legislation like this is a direct threat to democracy and people expressing an opinion. Existing laws can already deal with such issues.

I think so as well.
I was saying it the other day to someone. we have slander/libel laws etc already.
and an incitement to hatred?

once we bring his law in, it'll be easily extended to anything anyone doesn't like.

suicide_circus · 15-12-2019 03:33PM

i'm still waiting for someone to explain why this law is needed other than

"de existing law is from 1989!!!!"

and

"my sinister NGO can make a killing off this!!!"

RandomName2 · 15-12-2019 03:39PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Bless, talk about him being naive or plain disingenuous. One always follows the other. There isn't a single example among our European neighbours where it hasn't and doesn't and usually in a negative fashion.

Politics by definition is about public affairs. If you have already taken it as accepted that something is going to be a public affair, but don't want it to become political, what options are you left with?

One option would be some sort of public consultation model where citizens get a direct say on the motion set about by the government. While this approach is great in that it effectively negates any reason for anti-migrant politicians or parties to emerge (because why go out for a political party hamburger when you have direct say steak at home) it does have one massive downside. It is possible that the public might have a different opinion to your own.

The other way is to try and shut down discussion of the matter. If politicians or organizations can be effectively ostracized, and possibly gagged by more restrictive speech laws, then there won't be a medium for discussion, and consequently there can't be any political movement at all. :rolleyes:

The government and media were very quick to say that both Sean Casey and Noel Grealish were racist concerning their comments about traveler housing and Nigerian expatriation of money respectively. This was the charge leveled at them: that it didn't matter if they were right (Noel Grealish, at least, was apparently wrong in the matter), but that their comments were racist in nature, and shouldn't have been made for that reason. Perhaps hate speech legislation could help penalize politicians and would-be politicians, who act in this manner in future?

Will I Am Not · 15-12-2019 03:43PM

alastair wrote: »

That one is though.

Didn’t watch it and wasn’t commenting on it either.

irishproduce · 15-12-2019 04:37PM

Bobblehats wrote: »

Apparently there’s been an abnormal amount of unhealthy ‘emmisions’ from the laboratory that is Ireland leading a UN delegate to the realisation there is an abnormal amount of NGO’s here. Which an ‘irish representative’ attempts to diffuse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahhrWAUG-Vk

all’s going swimmingly then! Just put a cap on it nothing bad can happen...

You know, I had a think about this. If that same UN delegate instead said, that there is an abnormally low number of NGO groups in Ireland, RTE would have it on the news as something along the lines of "UN Delegate shocked at poor representation of minority rights due to low number of NGOs " or something pushy like that.
Gas that Rte Don't bother highlighting the extraordinary number of NGOs set up here.
Good spot, poster.

Hate Speech Public Consultation

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