We need to adopt a no-commute culture

Ush1 · 12-12-2019 11:53AM

mariaalice wrote: »

How come for major financial institutions its not a problem all the health and safety issues, GDPR solved but for the civil service its a big union issue.

Cos snouts in troughs.

Stevieluvsye · 12-12-2019 11:54AM

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Between fuel and tolls it's costing me around €300 a month to go to the office where I work online for the whole day. It's just as easily accessed from home or anywhere in the world so I'd certainly be all for no commuting, especially as it'd save me about 2 hours per day as well.

Ask your manager can you so? You have a valid argument

12-12-2019 11:54AM

Duke of Url wrote: »

Do you work for the company also?

If not then third parties do have access to it. She showed you the monitoring data in relation to her.

Im sure the only people who that should be visible to is her manager and her.

This is the point im making about companies strict security polices where there is more control within a Workplace environment then home working.

The printing off of it is monitored i.e they know she did it. she can show it to anyone she likes she is not working for the CIA. The paranoia of some people.

You might keel over at this bu my husband showed me a work report he did to illustrate a point.

CelticRambler · 12-12-2019 11:56AM

eastie17 wrote: »

This excerpt from https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/11/when-working-from-home-doesnt-work/540660/ article sums up the differences best for me:
<snip>

But other types of work hinge on what might be called “collaborative efficiency”—the speed at which a group successfully solves a problem. And distance seems to drag collaborative efficiency down. Why? The short answer is that collaboration requires communication. And the communications technology offering the fastest, cheapest, and highest-bandwidth connection is—for the moment, anyway—still the office.

My non-professional activities require quite a bit of collaboration. I'm involved in two quite different projects at the moment, one of which is progressing very nicely with me doing my bit about 5000km away from the project leader, because 90% of the collaboration is time spent thinking about what the other parties have suggested. The slowest part of the process occurred last week when I had to wait about an hour for a large video file to be downloaded (during which time I was able to dig 3kg of carrots, make a loaf of brown bread, review and sign one of the aforementioned contracts and lay out the tools needed for some work I'd do on my car later)

In parallel, the other project is crawling along because the project leader insists on round-table meetings at our notional HQ, 75km from me. 90% of that time is spent yakking about the previous meeting, the next meeting, or a dozen off-topic subjects. I remember one night when we were treated to a series of YouTube videos showing clips of the artists who had already been selected to appear at our festival so that we could formally approve them. :rolleyes:

So while I do agree that brainstorming with other people physically present in the one room can be a rapid and effective way to solve some problems, having alone time away from the herd can be just as effective - especially for those challenges that require real out-of-the-box solutions.

HildaOgdenx · 12-12-2019 12:00PM

A mix of working from home 1/2 days and being office based for the rest of the week, is the ideal solution for me. Cutting out a long commute a couple of days a week was like getting a new lease of life.

Apiarist · 12-12-2019 12:00PM

An office is a place to work. I see the move to promote "working from home" as the Uber-isation of office jobs. Let's save costs at the expense of workers.

Personally, I prefer working in the office. My house is small and I don't have the luxury of a separate room that I can set up as an office and, most importantly, keep kids away.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 12-12-2019 12:08PM

victor8600 wrote: »

An office is a place to work. I see the move to promote "working from home" as the Uber-isation of office jobs. Let's save costs at the expense of workers.

I would argue that both the company and the worker can save money by working remotely. The company obviously benefits in reduced expenses. But the worker also benefits by not having to pay as much for petrol, tolls, parking, car maintenance, etc. Plus, he or she can save on work clothes, dry-cleaning, buying lunch out, and so on. Plus, kids will be in a creche or with a childminder for fewer hours, which may also be a saving.

The Cool · 12-12-2019 12:14PM

I'm self employed and work from home, personally I love it but it's not for everyone, some issues in particular:

- working from home comfortably requires you to have spare living space, somewhere to put a desk that is quiet and conducive to work. I share a house with my OH so was able to claim a work area, and I can also shut him up if I'm working and he's around. If I was in a houseshare, it'd be a different story as I wouldn't have control over my housemates or a corner of the common rooms and mightn't necessarily have space in my bedroom for a desk. Working from bed or the sofa with your laptop on your lap is lovely in theory but annoying in practice. Solution there might be to rent a place to myself or rent an extra room in the house, but then there's cost.

- On that note, there's personal investment in having the IT equipment, desk, chair, and good internet.

- The social aspect is more or less important to some people, my time is flexible and I enjoy being able to go meet teacher friends for coffee at 4pm on a wednesday so it suits me. My OH on the other hand - none of his friends live local, so all the friends he sees day to day are colleagues. If he were to cut off that social interaction, he would need to join a club or something to meet people.

- The facilities often just aren't there away from cities, and in the country we need major infrastructure investment. As much as I'd love to move back to my home village in Donegal and buy a house by the beach for a song, I'd be foregoing my ultrafast fibre broadband for 2G/3G internet from the mobile companies, not to mention local amenities. That said, it'd be great if we all moved to the small villages as it would bring them back to life and the services would be brought to us due to demand, but regardless, for the first people who jump ship, it's gonna be crap.

Somebody mentioned homeschooling kids - great for the actual physical environment, terrible for our social environment :pac:
As regards dossing at home - you definitely do, at the start, but once you miss a deadline or two you soon learn to knuckle down and get stuff done! In that regard I'd say the most important thing is routine - scheduling your time, clocking on and off, and having a specific work place, as in a desk rather than the sofa.

As I said I love working from home and would find it hard to go back to the commuting life, but it's definitely something that takes thought and preparation.

Duke of Url · 12-12-2019 12:15PM

mariaalice wrote: »

The printing off of it is monitored i.e they know she did it. she can show it to anyone she likes she is not working for the CIA. The paranoia of some people.

You might keel over at this bu my husband showed me a work report he did to illustrate a point.

Hmmmm OK. I dont believe that for a minute.

username2013 · 12-12-2019 12:20PM

arctictree wrote: »

My wifes workplace tried to bring in a working from home policy. Union objected to it massively. Were talking about insurance, health and safety etc etc. Idea was abandoned eventually.

What profession is she in if you don't mind me asking?

12-12-2019 12:20PM

Be interesting to see what the world of work will be like in 50 years time.

KilOit · 12-12-2019 12:22PM

I could do a part of my job at home but I also think it's very important for the social aspect to be around people. We're going down a very dangerous path of working from home is the norm, we'd have no social interaction and people would become very lonely. Things are already bad with over use of social apps.

Cina · 12-12-2019 12:25PM

I had to do it for a week after I had an operation two years ago and it almost drove me to the brink. I think for someone to do it they need to have a lot of willpower and be willing to go out for walks before work, at lunch, after work etc. Make sure to spend time with family and friends in the evening. I didn't have those options during that week and it was really difficult being at home alone all day.

I also hear people say they're way more productive and I didn't really feel that either. Not sure how I could possibly be more productive at home with all my luxuries as opposed to at a desk in an office where you basically have to work or else the day will drag.

I think the perfect balance would be 2-3 days in the office and 2-3 days at home a week. I don't think I could ever go to doing it from home full time.

mickuhaha · 12-12-2019 12:31PM

Everyone here is missing the worst outcome for remote working. That is if the work can be done remotely you don't need you're workers to be in Ireland. You can use cheap staff from other countries in alot of situations. Just look at a number of call centers. This is why the unions object. This of course excludes high skilled positions where the option seems to be in place to some point.

Stevieluvsye · 12-12-2019 12:34PM

mickuhaha wrote: »

Everyone here is missing the worst outcome for remote working. That is if the work can be done remotely you don't need you're workers to be in Ireland. You can use cheap staff from other countries in alot of situations. Just look at a number of call centers. This is why the unions object. This of course excludes high skilled positions where the option seems to be in place to some point.

Realistically nobody needs to be in an office in this day and age. Maybe in rare cases

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 12-12-2019 12:37PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Be interesting to see what the world of work will be like in 50 years time.

We are still largely stuck in a nineteenth-century model. Robert Owen campaigned as early as 1817 for "eight hours' labour, eight hours' recreation, and eight hours' rest." His model caught on, and stuck. More than 200 years after he formulated that slogan, we still expect to report to a centralized workplace for 8 hours a day to be overseen by managers, even though we now have the technology to do things radically differently.

Teaching children to work more autonomously during school hours would help them make the transition to working without constant supervision. A culture of babysitting in education leads to a mindset of working only when the teacher is watching — which translates to "dossing" when the manager's back is turned at work, and thus an inability to focus when working from home.

The traditional workweek of 8 hours a day, 5 days a week is now being challenged. More employers are experimenting with 4-day weeks, shorter working days, and remote working. Many progressive-thinking managers have figured out that it's not how many hours you spend in the office that counts — or, indeed, whether you report to an office at all — but how much you get done and how much value you add. So it will indeed be interesting to see how things evolve from here.

12-12-2019 12:38PM

mickuhaha wrote: »

Everyone here is missing the worst outcome for remote working. That is if the work can be done remotely you don't need you're workers to be in Ireland. You can use cheap staff from other countries in alot of situations. Just look at a number of call centers. This is why the unions object. This of course excludes high skilled positions where the option seems to be in place to some point.

In one of the places, my daughter's partner worked the work was take back from India to the UK because it was so badly done its not as simple as it seems.

mickuhaha · 12-12-2019 12:39PM

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Realistically nobody needs to be in an office in this day and age. Maybe in rare cases

True and no reason companies should use more expensive staff either.

12-12-2019 12:41PM

Working from home full time would be so isolating. Plus plenty of times you need to just have a 2 min chat with people to sort something out
Definitely good as an occasional option though

mickuhaha · 12-12-2019 12:41PM

mariaalice wrote: »

In one of the places, my daughter's partner worked the work was take back from India to the UK because it was so badly done its not as simple as it seems.

I am glad to hear that.

andekwarhola · 12-12-2019 12:43PM

Most IT companies do, I assume. Most of my colleagues would do at least one day working remotely.

jmayo · 12-12-2019 12:44PM

Slowyourrole wrote: »

There are certain ideas that, no matter how factually or logically based they are, simply don't sit well with people because they seem too far out of an established status quo. Working from home is one. Criminal rehabilitation is another. Universal Basic Income is another. Even basic welfare and online shopping were once concepts that seemed completely outrageous.

Yeah well we all know how Criminal rehabilitation worked out in London recently. It is often a farcical concept as a means to giving jobs to some well meaning social workers.

That is cr** that people have a problem with the idea of working from home when it is basically impossible for some to do their job from home.

Not everyone works for the googles, facebooks or microsofts of this world and wish to fook some Irish people copped on to that salient truth.

Anyone that works with or maintains equipment has to travel to where that equipment is.
Anyone that has to have personal physical interaction with people has to travel.

Yes, if you spend all day working on a computer, either doing some form of data processing, development, report writing, etc then fine you could work from anywhere.

But a lot of people do not have that luxury.

username2013 · 12-12-2019 12:44PM

In the past I have worked in some roles exclusively from home( I'm in IT) and found it has its advantages and disadvantages. These are

Advantages:
- No commute
- Cuts down on pointless meetings to an extent (you still have to be available for some meeting via webex, skype etc)
- Saves money both on commute and lunch etc
- Easier to focus especially on coding as a software developer
- Can be a little more flexible in some ways

Disadvantages:
- Not around your work colleagues. I realise a lot of people might like this, but I also like to have a chat and a bit of craic at work, hard to do this on your own!
- You’re never away from work. Very easy to slip into a habit where your checking emails at 7 or 8 in the evening.
- Less breaks – not sure if other are like this, but I end up working a lot more when at home
- Your daily routines can start to slip. Had many days when I got up, quickly checked some emails, intending to then go for shower, breakfast etc. Come 1pm I am still working, no personal grooming done, it’s easy to slip into bad habits like this.
- Miss out on internal conversations. Some of the most important things you can learn in a company can be via informal chats, when you’re not in the office sometimes can feel a bit out of the loop
- Parents/in laws – if they are visiting, they just don’t seem to understand that you’re working no matter how many times you tell em and they constantly interrupt. Ideas for the houses, kids etc. It might be just my relations though!

Overall, I think a mix of in office and the option of being able to work at home for a couple of days a week is best for me, but everyone is different.

KildareP · 12-12-2019 12:45PM

Not sure I buy the climate change aspect of it.

You'll need still need to have some sort of an office or base that is heated, lit, etc.

At the moment our house is unheated and dark for the majority of our waking day - as are the majority of houses in our estate.

Whereas if we were all working from home then all of our houses would need to heated and lit from the moment we woke to the moment we went back to bed.

Meanwhile those base offices are still going to he heated and lit anyway!

And transport would still run because people will have more spare time saved from time ordinarily spent commuting to go and explore.

So rather than decreasing energy use we'd be increasing it?

andekwarhola · 12-12-2019 12:47PM

Clogged up commuting routes aren't just down to workers.

Factor in crappy infrastructure, terrible public transport and fat kids getting driven 1km to school by idle parents for example.

andekwarhola · 12-12-2019 12:49PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Is there not a risk of increasing social isolation, though? It all sounds great but this idea of encouraging more people to spend less time around others would probably have its own set of consequences.

Have to say I do like coming into the office but lucky enough to have a convenient commute and the can work from home once to twice a week.

Even a significantly smaller workplace with hot desks (and a staggered rota of office attendance) would mean people could WFH but also have office time too.

FionnB · 12-12-2019 12:56PM

mickuhaha wrote: »

True and no reason companies should use more expensive staff either.

Plenty of reasons - certainly in my line of work the required skill sets are just not there in countries where employees are 'cheaper'

mickuhaha · 12-12-2019 01:08PM

FionnB wrote: »

Plenty of reasons - certainly in my line of work the required skill sets are just not there in countries where employees are 'cheaper'

Tell the Dell employees that.

lawred2 · 12-12-2019 01:09PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

People issue. A lot of managers would hate it.

A large number of employees would also hate it

12-12-2019 01:11PM

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah well we all know how Criminal rehabilitation worked out in London recently. It is often a farcical concept as a means to giving jobs to some well meaning social workers.

That is cr** that people have a problem with the idea of working from home when it is basically impossible for some to do their job from home.

Not everyone works for the googles, facebooks or microsofts of this world and wish to fook some Irish people copped on to that salient truth.

Anyone that works with or maintains equipment has to travel to where that equipment is.
Anyone that has to have personal physical interaction with people has to travel.

Yes, if you spend all day working on a computer, either doing some form of data processing, development, report writing, etc then fine you could work from anywhere.

But a lot of people do not have that luxury.

gosh you got awful angry there.

hopefully when you calm down youll read the thread again and spot that the mandatory, everyone now has to work from home 100% of the time regardless of their job argument hasnt been so much as hinted at.

phew, eh

We need to adopt a no-commute culture

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