We need to adopt a no-commute culture

Elessar · 12-12-2019 09:46AM #1

Interesting article in the IT today from a software firm CEO that talks about the need for a no-commute culture here. He argues that with climate change and the work life balance cost of commuting, incoming generations of workers will demand remote working jobs and it might even be the next big thing in attracting talent.

He makes a good point of the likes of Facebook, Google & Microsoft buying up properties in the city for hundreds of millions of euro, only to have their staff commute in and use the company cloud services to do their job. Which could easily be done from home.

What's AH's take on it? Would no commute be an incentive for you in a job?

Link: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation/chris-horn-we-need-to-adopt-a-no-commute-culture-1.4110977

12-12-2019 09:47AM

would be a huge incentive

there is no reason this isnt happening on a technical basis, so the lack of movement towards it is puzzling

Ulysses Gaze · 12-12-2019 09:52AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

would be a huge incentive

there is no reason this isnt happening on a technical basis, so the lack of movement towards it is puzzling

People issue. A lot of managers would hate it.

riemann · 12-12-2019 09:56AM

Much more difficult to indoctorinate people into your little data mining cult if you don't force them to socialise with 'free beer' and table tennis tables.

Anyone who knows someone who works for google or facebook will not be surprised by this.

Genuine skilled IT contractors have been working remotely for years, and making serious coin.

TheValeyard · 12-12-2019 10:41AM

Not possible for the vast majority of people. They need to go to work. They need to travel to work.

LirW · 12-12-2019 10:44AM

riemann wrote: »

Much more difficult to indoctorinate people into your little data mining cult if you don't force them to socialise with 'free beer' and table tennis tables.

Anyone who knows someone who works for google or facebook will not be surprised by this.

Genuine skilled IT contractors have been working remotely for years, and making serious coin.

But... But... Having a bit of craic!!!

whisky_galore · 12-12-2019 10:47AM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

People issue. A lot of managers would hate it.

People can't be stood over and watched, no pointless meetings, middle management would become obsolete.

Slowyourrole · 12-12-2019 10:49AM

There are certain ideas that, no matter how factually or logically based they are, simply don't sit well with people because they seem too far out of an established status quo. Working from home is one. Criminal rehabilitation is another. Universal Basic Income is another. Even basic welfare and online shopping were once concepts that seemed completely outrageous.

Tabnabs · 12-12-2019 10:49AM

If we were to homeschool our kids that would be the biggest single step in reducing commuting traffic on the roads.

Followed quickly by free public transport, all carrot not stick approach.

JohnnyFlash · 12-12-2019 10:49AM

I own a business that supplies industrial kitchen equipment. I don’t need to spell out the challenges of having my employees working from home.

Working from home has been discussed and promised for 30 years now. Like the paperless office and artificial intelligence. Behind it all is a consultancy selling hopium.

12-12-2019 10:52AM

i dont buy the managers argument. train managers to move from a presenteeism to a task/goal mindset. and that's accepting that 'most managers' have that outlook to begin with, which isnt my experience.

and i dont see valeyards case

lets say half of irish jobs could be made remote, which i think is probably not too far off. lets start there.

the amount of services jobs that would be made available down the country as a result in time would also be significant

Slowyourrole · 12-12-2019 10:55AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I own a business that supplies industrial kitchen equipment. I don’t need to spell out the challenges of having my employees working from home.

Working from home has been discussed and promised for 30 years now. Like the paperless office and artificial intelligence. Behind it all is a consultancy selling hopium.

100% working from home is certainly nor for every job. But businesses can do it even to small degrees. If you had a very informative website an detailed online ordering system you could reduce your on site admin requirements. Many accounts and hr stuff can be done from home with a partial presence on site. If the manufacturers you use had a similar approach you could probably have all your purchasing done from a keyboard in somebody's home too.

Duke of Url · 12-12-2019 10:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

i dont buy the managers argument. train managers to move from a presenteeism to a task/goal mindset. and that's accepting that 'most managers' have that outlook to begin with, which isnt my experience.

and i dont see valeyards case

lets say half of irish jobs could be made remote, which i think is probably not too far off. lets start there.

the amount of services jobs that would be made available down the country as a result in time would also be significant

Do you think removing the Social aspect of a Team environment in the workplace is a good thing?

Also can you expand on how Security policies can be strictly adhered to where many people house share with people outside the organisation you may work for?

12-12-2019 10:59AM

If I was dictator of Ireland I would pass a law that anyone with a primarily computer-based job or even those who spend an amount of time writing reports secondary to their main job would have to work from home at least one or two days a week.

It would solve a lot of commute problems and make people happier.

12-12-2019 11:01AM

Duke of Url wrote: »

Do you think removing the Social aspect of a Team environment in the workplace is a good thing?

Also can you expand on how Security policies can be strictly adhered to where many people house share with people outside the organisation you may work for?

The security one is easily solved.

They might go for lunch occasionally where they live thus spreading our business more locally.

Del2005 · 12-12-2019 11:02AM

It's a health and safety issue, in my company they spend a fortune on ergonomics and regularly audit employees. How can a company ensure that their employee is working in a safe manner at home and what happens when said employee gets injured? The company is responsible for their safety when they are working for them regardless of where that work is done.

screamer · 12-12-2019 11:02AM

Working from home is very possible for people who just need a laptop or mobile equipment.
There’s a trust issue to it and certainly on the flip side if everyone worked remotely there would be no sense of team. A mixture of both office and remote is certainly possible and leads to greater work life balance and retention. However, it seems that for indigenous Irish companies who could offer this, it is a mad notion, combined with cultures of I’m the boss, you’ll do what I say. And they wonder why they can’t attract nor retain talent. In the future I believe and not too far away, work will not be set hours based but be blended to allow people to start and finish as it suits their life, so long as they get their work done.

screamer · 12-12-2019 11:04AM

Del2005 wrote: »

It's a health and safety issue, in my company they spend a fortune on ergonomics and regularly audit employees. How can a company ensure that their employee is working in a safe manner at home and what happens when said employee gets injured? The company is responsible for their safety when they are working for them regardless of where that work is done.

Policy, very easy to do. Employee is responsible for all that, and you’d be surprised that no one will want to be back in the office full time once they’ve had the luxury of remote working.

jjpep · 12-12-2019 11:04AM

Personally, I don't even consider jobs that don't allow for the option of remote working.

Take the point that that can't happen in every type of job.

12-12-2019 11:05AM

Del2005 wrote: »

It's a health and safety issue, in my company they spend a fortune on ergonomics and regularly audit employees. How can a company ensure that their employee is working in a safe manner at home and what happens when said employee gets injured? The company is responsible for their safety when they are working for them regardless of where that work is done.

How are people doing it now two in my family at the moment and its getting more common, one in my family has an office int the spare bedroom with an office chair my sister works from the kitchen table both do not do it full time though.

screamer · 12-12-2019 11:05AM

mariaalice wrote: »

If I was dictator of Ireland I would pass a law that anyone with a primarily computer-based job or even those who spend an amount of time writing reports secondary to their main job would have to work from home at least one or two days a week.

It would solve a lot of commute problems and make people happier.

And give the companies some sort of tax credit kick back to incentivize it...... in the name of carbon reduction

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 12-12-2019 11:06AM

It would have huge advantages — easing traffic congestion (fewer commuters), easing the housing crisis (fewer people have to live in Dublin and other urban centres), and potentially rejuvenating rural Ireland. Concerns about productivity and management are mostly misguided; studies on remote working generally find that remote workers are more productive, and there are numerous ways to have video meetings nowadays with coworkers and managers. Some successful companies (e.g., Basecamp) are 100% remote and thriving. So it can be done.

CelticRambler · 12-12-2019 11:10AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Working from home has been discussed and promised for 30 years now. Like the paperless office and artificial intelligence. Behind it all is a consultancy selling hopium.

My office is paperless. I signed three contracts in the last week, none of which required a single sheet of paper. Phone call to agree terms; pdf e-mailed to me from my future workplaces (3-600km away); signed digitally, sent back.

I will have to set foot in each location next year, but will integrate that with general tourism. One of my T&Cs for any employer is that my daily commute while I'm there has to be no more than 500m.

Will review things in the new year - am seriously considering moving entirely to remote working in a consultative role during the hours of darkness so that I can spend more time with my vegetables while I can see them.

So the hopium's in plentiful supply here.

NuttyMcNutty · 12-12-2019 11:11AM

Fix the public transport already and stop tinkering around the edges, more people that work from home the more shops around your workplace close, I'm sure they would be happy.

whisky_galore · 12-12-2019 11:11AM

Tabnabs wrote: »

If we were to homeschool our kids that would be the biggest single step in reducing commuting traffic on the roads.

Followed quickly by free public transport, all carrot not stick approach.

However poor certain aspects of the education system are, I can only imagine how low the standard of education would be if left up to mommies and daddies.

Ush1 · 12-12-2019 11:13AM

Elessar wrote: »

Interesting article in the IT today from a software firm CEO that talks about the need for a no-commute culture here. He argues that with climate change and the work life balance cost of commuting, incoming generations of workers will demand remote working jobs and it might even be the next big thing in attracting talent.

He makes a good point of the likes of Facebook, Google & Microsoft buying up properties in the city for hundreds of millions of euro, only to have their staff commute in and use the company cloud services to do their job. Which could easily be done from home.

What's AH's take on it? Would no commute be an incentive for you in a job?

Link: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/innovation/chris-horn-we-need-to-adopt-a-no-commute-culture-1.4110977

Neither of them are in the city?

12-12-2019 11:13AM

Duke of Url wrote: »

Do you think removing the Social aspect of a Team environment in the workplace is a good thing?

Also can you expand on how Security policies can be strictly adhered to where many people house share with people outside the organisation you may work for?

the social aspect of a team environment would have to be accepted as a mainly positive item. for many people, it isnt!

secondly, you dont have to work in a cupboard to work remotely. office hubs provide a separate workspace that separated work from home, and if one needed the habit comforts of people around thats that box ticked too

the thrust of your point also seems to suggest that a team bond relies on a shared-site. not at all my experience.

your security policies point is a little unclear to me, but presuming its IT based then id need to know your specific concern. plenty of products out there providing remote access with no lower security for practical purposes than on-prem.

if your talking about other people being around....then do what you would have to do anyway, lock yr laptop when away from it.

if you're talking such sensitive material that it's not an option, look, fine. take that small percentage of the pot and put it into the "cant be done remotely for now" pile.

most of it very manageable imo

Ficheall · 12-12-2019 11:14AM

I work from home. I've taken advantage of that to take almost 20 flights this year, and about 30 in 2018. Not sure it's doing the environment any good.

12-12-2019 11:16AM

Del2005 wrote: »

It's a health and safety issue, in my company they spend a fortune on ergonomics and regularly audit employees. How can a company ensure that their employee is working in a safe manner at home and what happens when said employee gets injured? The company is responsible for their safety when they are working for them regardless of where that work is done.

seriously?

an audit covers this already, and an agreement on safe practice. insurance is an issue, but find me a company that doesnt already think insurance is an issue tbf

lads, this is already happening all over the place. the answers to most of these objections is "exactly like it would work in the office already" for many of them

jam_mac_jam · 12-12-2019 11:17AM

I think a lot of it is cultural in that people just expect to have to work in a work location. I think it will change and is starting to change.
They are bringing it in in my work at the moment, some of the management really don't like it. Its fine for them of course just not the plebs which they feel they have to watch like kids in school.
If you can't trust your employees to be working at home or you don't have a way to know that, goals, tasks completed then you have more problems that you need to worry about.
I really hope it catches on, there are a huge number of people who could work from home quite easily.

seamus · 12-12-2019 11:18AM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

People issue. A lot of managers would hate it.

There's quite a lot of resistance to it, because it represents a significant change of mindset. It's a large social upheaval. And people tend to resist such upheavals point blank, without considering whether it's a good thing or not.

My father commuted to a job. So did his Dad. And his Dad. And his Dad.

Commutes may have been shorter 80 years ago, but for a long, long time people have been getting up in the morning, and leaving the house to make a trip to a place of work.

It sounds insane, but telling people that's going to change causes a substantial amount of people to go into lockdown and denial. They've structured the basic routines of their lives around commuting, and they will resist any external attempt to change those routines without even considering the benefit of the change.

There are definitely management who begin to panic at the thought that they can't just walk up to someone's desk to check if they working, but I don't think the big resistance comes from there.

The crux of the management issue is this:

If you can't trust your employees to be working at home or you don't have a way to know that, goals, tasks completed then you have more problems that you need to worry about.

A dosser will doss whether they're at home or at work. At work they'll just find better ways to doss and be a bigger drain on company money than if they sit at home dossing.
If someone thinks that an employee can be considered to be "working" on the basis that they're at their desk from 9-5:30, then either the employee doesn't do anything, or the manager hasn't a clue how to manage people.

We need to adopt a no-commute culture

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