Sweden v Ireland healthcare

10-12-2019 08:45PM

According to the UN, the only countries that have higher standards of living than us are Norway and Switzerland.

See, we don't even need houses!?:D:D

also love the way they get the jibe in "the uk is in 15th place"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-has-third-highest-quality-of-life-in-world-says-un-report-1.4110646

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-12-2019 08:45PM

Health is one issue, but so is the growing 'crime' levels in Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
Would appear to have surged ever since 2015.

pablo128 · 10-12-2019 08:47PM

bunderoon wrote: »

I'm 3 years waiting for an MRI appointment. Any day now. Any day...

I had a hernia operation 2 weeks ago. 3 and a half years waiting on it. Having said that, once I was actually in Tallaght hospital getting done, the staff there were fantastic.

Greentopia · 10-12-2019 08:48PM

Vita nova wrote: »

What about France? Has one of the best health services in Europe and it has a lot to offer in terms of climate, scenery, food & drink, etc.

As for me, I wouldn't leave because of the health service but the climate and the smallness of Ireland can be a pain at times.

Yes it has, beautiful country but I don't think my fiancee would move there. He mutters darkly about "the frogs" whenever they're mentioned. In jest. Mostly. Neighbourly rivalries as he's German.

I think it's just a coincidence his car has broken down every time he's driven through France, but he sees it differently

The smallness and climate I can deal with here, though I can see why others feel differently. For me better maybe a few good weeks of 22C in Summer if we're lucky than boiling in +40C on the continent. So yeah there's that too.

Sweden can get warm Summers too but never experienced more than 32C on a few days.

Tony EH · 10-12-2019 08:54PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes it has, beautiful country but I don't think my fiancee would move there. He mutters darkly about "the frogs" whenever they're mentioned. In jest. Mostly. Neighbourly rivalries as he's German.

It's fine, they'll just call him Le Boche and everything will be grand. :pac:

Greentopia · 10-12-2019 08:55PM

Wibbs wrote: »

When I went through many years of engagement with our health system as a carer of a relative, I have to say the standard and speed of care was for the most part extremely professional and speedy. Ambulances were quick to show up(999 calls. Many of them. Five in their last year of life alone) and they were seen and treated in double quick time. The GP was variable at first, but that improved, the standard of local nursing care was beyond exemplary, as were the care assistants. It was first under private healthcare and then public. The only real difference I found was private got a private room, but TBH I preferred the more close attention with a semipublic. That was my experience anyway.

However that was in Dublin, within fifteen, twenty minutes of three hospitals and I made myself a strong, persistent and informed advocate. If it were in a more rural isolated location and say two elderly people involved the difference in care could well be there, but I can't speak to that from personal experience.

Thanks Wibbs, appreciate your input. Glad you had some good experiences with it.

Would be great to know what percentage of the population is actually happy with the system if they've engaged with it and have had positive experiences for themselves or loved ones. Might help me if I can base my opinions on more than just an endless stream of bad news stories on TV.

Vita nova · 10-12-2019 09:03PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes it has, beautiful country but I don't think my fiancee would move there. He mutters darkly about "the frogs" whenever they're mentioned. In jest. Mostly. Neighbourly rivalries as he's German.

I think it's just a coincidence his car has broken down every time he's driven through France, but he sees it differently

The smallness and climate I can deal with here, though I can see why others feel differently. For me better maybe a few good weeks of 22C in Summer if we're lucky than boiling in +40C on the continent. So yeah there's that too.

Sweden can get warm Summers too but never experienced more than 32C on a few days.

Indeed, the Germans tend to bypass France or just pass through it on their way to Italy or Spain for their holidays. It's ironic when you consider the common German saying Froh wie Gott in Frankreich (happy as God in France) but not I suppose when you consider those "neighbourly rivalries".

Greentopia · 10-12-2019 09:05PM

ush wrote: »

First world problems. Count yourself lucky.

Well yes, but I think it's reasonable to expect first world care in a supposed first world country. We pay enough in taxes for one.

I wouldn't be contemplating moving to Malawi and expect it to have a Swedish standard of health care!

Sugar Free · 10-12-2019 09:06PM

Greentopia wrote: »

What say ye...would you consider a move there if you had the chance? I'm not going to base my decision on the responses I get in AH , have to have a serious discussion over Christmas with the other half over about it, just wanted to see what ye think.

Would you leave Ireland for Sweden or any other affluent country just because our healthcare system is substandard? how important is it really to you?

I didn't leave Ireland due to fears over healthcare, although I am thankfully in good health and I'm not middle aged. That said, it would be a factor for sure in twenty years time, were I to consider moving back.

I don't think there's any perfect model of healthcare out there but I also think a lot of people don't question the current system critically enough as they've simply never experienced a better one.

Greentopia · 10-12-2019 09:11PM

mistersifter wrote: »

According to the UN, the only countries that have higher standards of living than us are Norway and Switzerland.

Yeah...nooo. I've never been to Switzerland but I have been to Norway a few times and they're definitely wealthier, have fewer social problems than here and much better wealth distribution. Go to Oslo and see all the Tesla cars on the streets. That country is stinkingly rich with oil money.

Greentopia · 10-12-2019 09:15PM

Omari Enough Photocopier wrote: »

Health is one issue, but so is the growing 'crime' levels in Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
Would appear to have surged ever since 2015.

In fairness I moved back here before then so can't comment with any real experience of what it's like now, but I have friends there and they don't seem concerned apart from a few high profile incidents that made the headlines.

I don't think it has impacted their everyday lives though.

I always felt extremely safe there.

Greentopia · 10-12-2019 09:26PM

Vita nova wrote: »

Indeed, the Germans tend to bypass France or just pass through it on their way to Italy or Spain for their holidays. It's ironic when you consider the common German saying Froh wie Gott in Frankreich (happy as God in France) but not I suppose when you consider those "neighbourly rivalries".

Yes I noticed that too. They have no problems with travelling in droves to those two countries-you have a little Germany in Mallorca and the fiancee is mad to go to back to Italy to Venice for our honeymoon, but I was met with a look of disapproval when I suggested France! :pac:

ush · 10-12-2019 09:30PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Well yes, but I think it's reasonable to expect first world care in a supposed first world country. We pay enough in taxes for one.

I wouldn't be contemplating moving to Malawi and expect it to have a Swedish standard of health care!

"supposed"

Ubbquittious · 10-12-2019 09:34PM

I would move to some place warm, or more remote, or both. I have never considered moving to Sweden. It seems unfriendly, overburdened with regulation and feminism and they sold their last decent sized car manufacturer to the Chinese

Even if the health system is crap it would help a lot to live in a relaxed country where nobody gives a fxxk. Somewhere warm and welcoming

Greentopia · 10-12-2019 09:35PM

Sugar Free wrote: »

I don't think there's any perfect model of healthcare out there but I also think a lot of people don't question the current system critically enough as they've simply never experienced a better one.

I think perhaps you're right. I don't think there's a perfect system either but there are ones that perform better and are better value for tax payers money than our one, that's for damn sure. We're too accepting of substandard services and not just in healthcare.

Experiencing how it is in another country that doesn't have the problems we have, or to the same level at least makes you see things here with a more critical eye. We set the bar too low in this country for what's seen as acceptable.

Would be particularly interested in anyone's opinion who has experience of another European healthcare system actually.

Greentopia · 10-12-2019 09:54PM

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I would move to some place warm, or more remote, or both. I have never considered moving to Sweden. It seems unfriendly, overburdened with regulation and feminism and they sold their last decent sized car manufacturer to the Chinese

Nah Swedes are lovely. They're introverted and value their privacy but they're a kind and warm people once you get to know them. Smart and good sense of humour too! yes they are a highly regulated country but I always found them to be common sense regulations and for the good of society.

You say "seems"...so you've never been there? if that's the case perhaps hold off on the 'nation of liberal nanny state cold feminazis' stereotype and take a trip there before coming to any conclusion about them. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Their car industry I'll take your word on.

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Even if the health system is crap it would help a lot to live in a relaxed country where nobody gives a fxxk. Somewhere warm and welcoming

I found Sweden-Gothenburg to be precise- where I lived, to be very relaxed as a city. Ordered, quiet and relaxed.

And the problem with living in a country where no-one gives a fxxk is that that's usually reflected in poor services and infrastructure as you see in poorer countries. I like a well ordered and well run country with decent services. Disorder, chaos and poverty is not relaxing or welcoming for me.

Might be fine in your twenties but not at my age.

wakka12 · 10-12-2019 10:08PM

It's just exaggerated as usual by the media and lapped up by a gormless public who dont know any better and just love to give out because theyre bored. Have you actually dealt with any irish healthcare facilities? Mostly a totally adequate and professional service and I think your fears are mostly unwarranted especially as you think its such an important issue that you might need to immigrate, its definitely nowhere near that bad. irish healthcare is better than in most of the world

In this recent study of world health care standards by WHO, Ireland ranked two places ahead of Sweden at a very respectable number 19 in the world.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

How is the quality of healthcare determined? Several factors determine the level of healthcare quality in each country. These include the care process (preventative care measures, safe care, coordinated care, and engagement and patient preferences), access (affordability and timeliness), administrative efficiency, equity, and healthcare outcomes (population health, mortality amenable to healthcare, and disease-specific health outcomes).

But you wont hear about that in the media, just about the person who decommissioned themselves without telling anybody and went home and died and is apparently a fault of the hospital for her doing that. Fair enough the lady was hallucinating, but I see her daughter in all the articles throwing blame, where was she in this four day timeline, did she not have any time to care for her mother and bring her back to hospital?

Sugar Free · 10-12-2019 10:26PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Would be particularly interested in anyone's opinion who has experience of another European healthcare system actually.

Without wishing to state which country I'm in, I can offer some insight. Depends what you want to know but generally speaking - there are obligatory insurance premiums and excesses to reach before you can claim anything back.

Multiple models exist, between what is essentially telemedicine at one end and a choose-any-doctor-you-want at the other. There is a basic insurance that everyone is entitled to and extra coverage that insurers can be selective about who they insure. For lower earners it's becoming an increasing burden on their household finances.

That said the standard of care, facilities and speed of access is really excellent. I don't mind paying for it at all, especially as my partner has had significant need for healthcare services in the last year, meaning I've experienced first hand how great it is. However, I'm not in the lower income bracket of households where healthcare costs take up a decent chunk of yearly income.

Hannaho · 10-12-2019 10:27PM

As a nurse, who has worked in Ireland for the last 20 years, and who has worked before that in the UK, the healthcare system here is dreadful. What you see when you work in it is terrifying. While I would be happy to retire in Ireland in 10 years time, I am genuinely scared of growing old here because of the state of the Health Service. Just to give an example. One of my friend's dad was diagnosed with stomach cancer and had surgery about 6 weeks ago. My friend was in a state because she was told that none of the public health nurses could come out and do his dressings as he did not have a medical card. He is in his early 60s and was working until he got sick - he's a postman - so decent wage, but not spectacular. He has about 40k in savings. He was told that he would have to pay for a nurse privately to come in and do his dressing, or go to his GP surgery and have them done. He was very weak after the surgery, and is single now after separating a couple of years ago. His daughter lives in Dublin and he in Galway. Years ago, your public health nurse would have come out to do dressings post surgery, medical card or not. In the UK, bad and all as the press on the NHS is, the Health Visitors (equivalent to Public Health Nurses), and Community/District nurses come out and do these dressings, and it is not dependent on one's income. To give another example, my friend, who is from the UK, but had Irish parents, wants to retire here. I keep trying to dissuade her. She gives out constantly about the NHS, but when she needed an MRI recently - she received one in 6 weeks on the NHS, and was not waiting '3 years' as per one of the posters above.

Bigmac1euro · 10-12-2019 10:31PM

I’ve had few too many dealings with the public health system in the past 15 months and you are right to worry.
The system really is a shambles and waiting lists are long, my OH has had her operation which is badly needed canceled twice on the morning of it after her fasting from the day before and mentally preparing herself and taken work off for 4/5 days each time. Just can’t deal with the stress of it at all anymore.
If anything happens to you in this country, you’re in trouble imo.

Just to add a few points

2 years I was waiting on an MRI after my mother suffered a fatal brain hemorrhage.

My grandad picked up a disease in st. James which killed him while he was in for something separate this went to trial with court cases etc.

9 months my OH is waiting on a surgery (as mentioned above has been cancelled twice on the morning and still hasn’t been done) to add to this
we waited 12 hours in A&E one night before leaving at 3am on a Wednesday morning like zombies without seeing anyone as the doctor we finally got to see said there would be another 3 hour wait to meet a team to asses her situation.

My OH mother suffered a brain hemorrhage late last year and they attempted to discharge her a week early while still clearly confused only I wouldnnot let her leave the hospital and demanded I spoke to the head of the department. I finally got a doctor from the hospital she had been transferred from on the phone and she was kept in for the correct amount of time. (The hospitals DO NOT COMMUNICATE)

Some of our GP’s are fantastic I will say that but that’s as far is it goes with my experiences.

Some people above in this thread are saying it’s all media spin but it’s not. It really isn’t. They probably haven’t been through the system multiple times in the last few years. It’s a **** show

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-12-2019 10:38PM

Greentopia wrote: »

In fairness I moved back here before then so can't comment with any real experience of what it's like now...
...I don't think it has impacted their everyday lives though.

Surely some impacts would be felt e.g. simply Commuting to Denmark (new checkpoints introduced).

The stats and surveys for crime show some very significant rises
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
One chart shows broad 200% rise over 20yrs. Currently crime stands higher than the EU27 average. Reports of sex crimes up 300% in just 3yrs, (BRÅ NTU survey) Perhaps why female-only music festivals haven since been introduced. Gun homicides up circa 250% in 4yrs. Various offences against the individual are all up in recent years https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/swedish-crime-survey.html (nearly double, in all areas, again since 2014-15).

Over 100 big-bangs this year so far: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50339977 Forcing Denmark to reinstates border checks at crossings https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/12/denmark-border-checks-crossings-sweden

Recently Swedish police have announced a 'special national incident' to look into the sudden phonemanal rise of violent crime. Stockholm has also fallen out of the top20 cities index (for the 1st time in ages) (Mercer QoL), for both of the last 2yrs.

Sure, it's low compared to Samolia or somewhere, but the fast rate of increase would be a major consideration in any move, for anyone. Great health service or not.

Hannaho · 10-12-2019 10:41PM

Also, for those who just say get private health insurance. The people who I nurse who are in their 60s are paying, on average, 3k per year in private health insurance, for just the ordinary package, i.e. semi-private room in a private hospital. If you get private health insurance out in your 30s, your are working and can probably afford it, even with a bit of a stretch, but 3k for private health insurance a year when you are on a pension is a different matter!

TomSweeney · 10-12-2019 10:58PM

Omari Enough Photocopier wrote: »

Surely some impacts would be felt e.g. simply Commuting to Denmark (new checkpoints introduced).

The stats and surveys for crime show some very significant rises
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
One chart shows broad 200% rise over 20yrs. Currently crime stands higher than the EU27 average. Reports of sex crimes up 300% in just 3yrs, (BRÅ NTU survey) Perhaps why female-only music festivals haven since been introduced. Gun homicides up circa 250% in 4yrs. Various offences against the individual are all up in recent years https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/swedish-crime-survey.html (nearly double, in all areas, again since 2014-15).

Over 100 big-bangs this year so far: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50339977 Forcing Denmark to reinstates border checks at crossings https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/12/denmark-border-checks-crossings-sweden

Recently Swedish police have announced a 'special national incident' to look into the sudden phonemanal rise of violent crime. Stockholm has also fallen out of the top20 cities index (for the 1st time in ages) (Mercer QoL), for both of the last 2yrs.

Sure, it's low compared to Samolia or somewhere, but the fast rate of increase would be a major consideration in any move, for anyone. Great health service or not.

I wonder what has caused that rise ??? hmmmmmmmmm....

Stovepipe · 10-12-2019 11:44PM

Swedish winter not to be messed with; taxation is much higher than here, Swedish is difficult to learn but most Swedes have very good English. Cost of living in Stockholm would make your eyes water.

Richard Hillman · 10-12-2019 11:54PM

Expensive, dangerous and not getting any better.

MrAbyss · 11-12-2019 12:28AM

Boring country and people terrified of being human in their day to day lives. Will stay inside when the neighbours come out so they do not have to say hello. Rampant used of psyche meds. They get ****faced once a week and then pretend the rest of the week they didn't.

It's a creepy and disturbing society but some wonderful nature it has to be said. Mind you it will be an Islamic state in next 20 years so if you don't mind Sharia Law then you'll be grand.

Snow Garden · 11-12-2019 12:38AM

I would go back to Sweden. The health system here is killing people unnecessarily.

11-12-2019 12:45AM

pablo128 wrote: »

I had a hernia operation 2 weeks ago. 3 and a half years waiting on it. Having said that, once I was actually in Tallaght hospital getting done, the staff there were fantastic.

This typifies healthcare in Ireland. I needed a hernia Op too. I went to my GP on Thursday, got a referral to private clinic, rang them Thursday afternoon, seen consultant following Tuesday and was in surgery Wednesday morning at 8am. Because I could pay, I jumped the 3 year queue and the surgery was done in a public hospital.
This is what is scary about the two tier healthcare system in Ireland.

LessOutragePlz · 11-12-2019 12:50AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This typifies healthcare in Ireland. I needed a hernia Op too. I went to my GP on Thursday, got a referral to private clinic, rang them Thursday afternoon, seen consultant following Tuesday and was in surgery Wednesday morning at 8am. Because I could pay, I jumped the 3 year queue and the surgery was done in a public hospital.
This is what is scary about the two tier healthcare system in Ireland.

I can echo this tore an ACL didn't have health insurance and was told I'd be waiting at least 2 years in the public system or I could pay the €4000+ myself and get it done within a month. Took a loan out and went for the latter for the sake of my long term knee health.

questionmark? · 11-12-2019 12:56AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

I wonder what has caused that rise ??? hmmmmmmmmm....

Ssshhhhhhhhh don't mention the elephant in the room.

Sweden v Ireland healthcare

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