Sweden v Ireland healthcare

Greentopia

So been weighing my options lately as to whether I should stay on our little isle or move back to Sweden. The main (and really only) issue that's making me think about leaving is the healthcare system here... quite frankly it scares the bejezus out of me, especially as I'm middle aged now. Far better in Sweden, no question. I love this country and am happy here, but worried about what the future might bring if I or my partner were to need medical care...which will happen sooner rather than later I'm sure as we're both middle aged now.

What say ye...would you consider a move there if you had the chance? I'm not going to base my decision on the responses I get in AH , have to have a serious discussion over Christmas with the other half over about it, just wanted to see what ye think.

Would you leave Ireland for Sweden or any other affluent country just because our healthcare system is substandard? how important is it really to you?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Just because of the Health System? Absolutely not.

I'm well past middle age and would still not have the fears you seem to have over the inadequacies of the system. It wouldn't be a deciding factor for me.

In before the Infowars experts who've never set foot on Swedish soil.

ArchXStanton

I'd leave, my father got a cancer on his ear about the size of a pimple a few months back, by the time he waited to get it seen too and removed it had grown to the size of a strawberry and he lost his ear, it boils my piss this country

LessOutragePlz

If I were you I'd be worrying about living right now in this moment so if you'll be happier here then stay here no point worrying about getting medical care when you're older when you could get hit by a bus tomorrow.

Allinall

Just take out private health insurance.

Fr_Dougal

Greentopia wrote: »

So been weighing my options lately as to whether I should stay on our little isle or move back to Sweden. The main (and really only) issue that's making me think about leaving is the healthcare system here... quite frankly it scares the bejezus out of me, especially as I'm middle aged now. Far better in Sweden, no question. I love this country and am happy here, but worried about what the future might bring if I or my partner were to need medical care...which will happen sooner rather than later I'm sure as we're both middle aged now.

What say ye...would you consider a move there if you had the chance? I'm not going to base my decision on the responses I get in AH , have to have a serious discussion over Christmas with the other half over about it, just wanted to see what ye think.

Would you leave Ireland for Sweden or any other affluent country just because our healthcare system is substandard? how important is it really to you?

Have you used our healthcare system lately?

Greentopia

Ricardo Handsome Ibex wrote: »

Just because of the Health System? Absolutely not.

I'm well past middle age and would still not have the fears you seem to have over the inadequacies of the system. It wouldn't be a deciding factor for me.

Good to hear. Genuinely Ricardo Handsome Ibex. How do you deal then with the endless stream of bad news about it as someone who's getting older here? trolley crisis, overcrowding in A&E, waiting lists, billions for the new children hospital, ambulances turning up too late for chronically ill people, cervical smear scandal... and on and on.
I'm someone who likes certainty in life and pay my taxes expecting a decent service in return. Not an unreasonable expectation I feel, but one which is not met. I have zero confidence the present government has any serious interest in solving any of those problems and I don't think FF are any better. It's just...crisis management and limiting the political damage.

I had private cover here when I returned but left it lapse. If I stay I will definitely return to it, but even with private cover problems remain.

Why don't you have any fears about it? not saying you should :pac: just wondering how you deal with what's going on.

Greentopia

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I'd leave, my father got a cancer on his ear about the size of a pimple a few months back, by the time he waited to get it seen too and removed it had grown to the size of a strawberry and he lost his ear, it boils my piss this country

Oh Lord, so sorry to hear that.

Greentopia

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

If I were you I'd be worrying about living right now in this moment so if you'll be happier here then stay here no point worrying about getting medical care when you're older when you could get hit by a bus tomorrow.

That's how I try to think. I'm just someone who likes to be in control of things that affect me and my partner and this makes me feel helpless and rather scared.

Salary Negotiator

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I'd leave, my father got a cancer on his ear about the size of a pimple a few months back, by the time he waited to get it seen too and removed it had grown to the size of a strawberry and he lost his ear, it boils my piss this country

That’s reads like he waited until it got bigger before seeing a doctor about it. Can’t blame the health system for that.

If I’ve taken you up wrong then I apologise.

Greentopia

Allinall wrote: »

Just take out private health insurance.

I did have it but not at the moment. Private health insurance doesn't solve all the problems one may be likely to encounter though that I mentioned. It just means you can skip the waiting lists and get a nicer room.

ArchXStanton

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

That’s reads like he waited until it got bigger before seeing a doctor about it. Can’t blame the health system for that.

If I’ve taken you up wrong then I apologise.

You've taken it up wrong

enricoh

If I was single I would definitely leave Ireland for Sweden! Dunno how the health systems compare though. on the other hand e12 a pint and a longer winter would get old fast !

andekwarhola

Health insurance here probably work out cheaper than 12 euro beers for the rest of your life.

Greentopia

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Have you used our healthcare system lately?

No. Last time was a doctors appointment early in the year for routine blood tests. Haven't been inside a hospital for about 7 or 8 years when I had an elective minor surgery.

bunderoon

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Have you used our healthcare system lately?

I'm 3 years waiting for an MRI appointment. Any day now. Any day...

Greentopia

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

That’s reads like he waited until it got bigger before seeing a doctor about it. Can’t blame the health system for that.

If I’ve taken you up wrong then I apologise.

That's what I thought too. Apology from me too if I'm wrong!

ush

You're a worrier. Its 2019 everywhere. In Sweden or Ireland you've a better standard of living than most. Relax.

kennypowers

bunderoon wrote: »

I'm 3 years waiting for an MRI appointment. Any day now. Any day...

Its about 200/250 for a MRI in affeida scan centers.Not to belittle your predicament but surely that amount could be gathered or saved between yourself and immediate family.3 days is too long to wait never mind 3 years when it comes to your own health.

Vita nova

What about France? Has one of the best health services in Europe and it has a lot to offer in terms of climate, scenery, food & drink, etc.

As for me, I wouldn't leave because of the health service but the climate and the smallness of Ireland can be a pain at times.

Gynoid

bunderoon wrote: »

I'm 3 years waiting for an MRI appointment. Any day now. Any day...

I dont have health insurance or a medical card, as I cannot afford the former and earn too much for the latter. An MRI done in a private hospital near me is 295 euros. I would spend it on my car in a heartbeat if needed, thus likewise for myself. That is how I approach healthcare in my elder-youth years ( ) if it can wait I go public, if it bothers me I pay private for the tests to make sure nothing bad is up and so far thank God it works.
Dont wait 3 years for an MRI. Just book one privately.

Gynoid

kennypowers wrote: »

Its about 200/250 for a MRI in affeida scan centers.Not to belittle your predicament but surely that amount could be gathered or saved between yourself and immediate family.3 days is too long to wait never mind 3 years when it comes to your own health.

Snap!

Wibbs

When I went through many years of engagement with our health system as a carer of a relative, I have to say the standard and speed of care was for the most part extremely professional and speedy. Ambulances were quick to show up(999 calls. Many of them. Five in their last year of life alone) and they were seen and treated in double quick time. The GP was variable at first, but that improved, the standard of local nursing care was beyond exemplary, as were the care assistants. It was first under private healthcare and then public. The only real difference I found was private got a private room, but TBH I preferred the more close attention with a semipublic. That was my experience anyway.

However that was in Dublin, within fifteen, twenty minutes of three hospitals and I made myself a strong, persistent and informed advocate. If it were in a more rural isolated location and say two elderly people involved the difference in care could well be there, but I can't speak to that from personal experience.

Greentopia

enricoh wrote: »

If I was single I would definitely leave Ireland for Sweden! Dunno how the health systems compare though. on the other hand e12 a pint and a longer winter would get old fast !

andekwarhola wrote: »

Health insurance here probably work out cheaper than 12 euro beers for the rest of your life.

The Swedish system has it's problems too-accessing primary care was the main one I remember-it takes longer to get a GP appointment there than it does here.

But there are primary care clinics everywhere, you don't have to pay for private insurance as the public one is great, and it's fast and cheap to get a specialist appointment in comparison to here. I found it to be excellent overall. Clean and efficient hospitals and clinics. It's ranked as one of the top healthcare systems in the world for a reason.

The long Winters I don't really mind. It takes a year or more to acclimatise to though. Everyone just makes the most of the snow and make their homes "mysig"- cosy, comfortable and warm, with lots of candles.

€12 a pint...meh that's only in pubs and clubs and I'm not into that anymore. I'm not a big drinker and the Systembolaget -state owned alcohol shops sell a great selection of affordable wines and beer if I want that.

Greentopia

bunderoon wrote: »

I'm 3 years waiting for an MRI appointment. Any day now. Any day...

See it's stuff like this that terrifies me.

Hope you get some good news soon. 3 years though...fcuk that.

ush

€12 a pint? Bull****. More like €8 for a Guinness, €7.50 for a lager. But if you continue drinking like an Irish person, you may as well stay in Ireland. Don't be one of those Irish who falls into the local Irish pub and never leaves.

Jonybgud

Anyone who uses the word 'bejezus' in a sentence should just leave.

Greentopia

ush wrote: »

You're a worrier. Its 2019 everywhere. In Sweden or Ireland you've a better standard of living than most. Relax.

What gave it away?

I know...and I'm not just worried about myself, I'm worried about my partner too. Am I mad to expect him to leave the security of the German system (he's German) and move here and be subjected to god knows what in the Irish one??

I'm thinking what if he fell ill and something happened to him that would have been treatable or treated in a more timely manner if he'd stayed in Germany? I'd be devastated and feel it's my fault. He's all I have in this world...sorry if that sounds cringe but it's the truth. I'd be lost without him.

ush

First world problems. Count yourself lucky.

Tony EH

Greentopia wrote: »

So been weighing my options lately as to whether I should stay on our little isle or move back to Sweden. The main (and really only) issue that's making me think about leaving is the healthcare system here... quite frankly it scares the bejezus out of me, especially as I'm middle aged now. Far better in Sweden, no question. I love this country and am happy here, but worried about what the future might bring if I or my partner were to need medical care...which will happen sooner rather than later I'm sure as we're both middle aged now.

What say ye...would you consider a move there if you had the chance? I'm not going to base my decision on the responses I get in AH , have to have a serious discussion over Christmas with the other half over about it, just wanted to see what ye think.

Would you leave Ireland for Sweden or any other affluent country just because our healthcare system is substandard? how important is it really to you?

The public health system really isn't that bad here. The horror stories - which are in every type of system - are outweighed by the positive ones. Could it be better, yes. But, it could be much, much worse.

Move back if you're not happy here. That's all the reason you should need. If you're happy, stay put.

mistersifter

According to the UN, the only countries that have higher standards of living than us are Norway and Switzerland.


See, we don't even need houses!?:D:D

also love the way they get the jibe in "the uk is in 15th place"


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-has-third-highest-quality-of-life-in-world-says-un-report-1.4110646

4068ac1elhodqr

Health is one issue, but so is the growing 'crime' levels in Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
Would appear to have surged ever since 2015.

pablo128

bunderoon wrote: »

I'm 3 years waiting for an MRI appointment. Any day now. Any day...

I had a hernia operation 2 weeks ago. 3 and a half years waiting on it. Having said that, once I was actually in Tallaght hospital getting done, the staff there were fantastic.

Greentopia

Vita nova wrote: »

What about France? Has one of the best health services in Europe and it has a lot to offer in terms of climate, scenery, food & drink, etc.

As for me, I wouldn't leave because of the health service but the climate and the smallness of Ireland can be a pain at times.

Yes it has, beautiful country but I don't think my fiancee would move there. He mutters darkly about "the frogs" whenever they're mentioned. In jest. Mostly. Neighbourly rivalries as he's German.

I think it's just a coincidence his car has broken down every time he's driven through France, but he sees it differently

The smallness and climate I can deal with here, though I can see why others feel differently. For me better maybe a few good weeks of 22C in Summer if we're lucky than boiling in +40C on the continent. So yeah there's that too.

Sweden can get warm Summers too but never experienced more than 32C on a few days.

Tony EH

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes it has, beautiful country but I don't think my fiancee would move there. He mutters darkly about "the frogs" whenever they're mentioned. In jest. Mostly. Neighbourly rivalries as he's German.

It's fine, they'll just call him Le Boche and everything will be grand. :pac:

Greentopia

Wibbs wrote: »

When I went through many years of engagement with our health system as a carer of a relative, I have to say the standard and speed of care was for the most part extremely professional and speedy. Ambulances were quick to show up(999 calls. Many of them. Five in their last year of life alone) and they were seen and treated in double quick time. The GP was variable at first, but that improved, the standard of local nursing care was beyond exemplary, as were the care assistants. It was first under private healthcare and then public. The only real difference I found was private got a private room, but TBH I preferred the more close attention with a semipublic. That was my experience anyway.

However that was in Dublin, within fifteen, twenty minutes of three hospitals and I made myself a strong, persistent and informed advocate. If it were in a more rural isolated location and say two elderly people involved the difference in care could well be there, but I can't speak to that from personal experience.

Thanks Wibbs, appreciate your input. Glad you had some good experiences with it.

Would be great to know what percentage of the population is actually happy with the system if they've engaged with it and have had positive experiences for themselves or loved ones. Might help me if I can base my opinions on more than just an endless stream of bad news stories on TV.

Vita nova

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes it has, beautiful country but I don't think my fiancee would move there. He mutters darkly about "the frogs" whenever they're mentioned. In jest. Mostly. Neighbourly rivalries as he's German.

I think it's just a coincidence his car has broken down every time he's driven through France, but he sees it differently

The smallness and climate I can deal with here, though I can see why others feel differently. For me better maybe a few good weeks of 22C in Summer if we're lucky than boiling in +40C on the continent. So yeah there's that too.

Sweden can get warm Summers too but never experienced more than 32C on a few days.

Indeed, the Germans tend to bypass France or just pass through it on their way to Italy or Spain for their holidays. It's ironic when you consider the common German saying Froh wie Gott in Frankreich (happy as God in France) but not I suppose when you consider those "neighbourly rivalries".

Greentopia

ush wrote: »

First world problems. Count yourself lucky.

Well yes, but I think it's reasonable to expect first world care in a supposed first world country. We pay enough in taxes for one.

I wouldn't be contemplating moving to Malawi and expect it to have a Swedish standard of health care!

Sugar Free

Greentopia wrote: »

What say ye...would you consider a move there if you had the chance? I'm not going to base my decision on the responses I get in AH , have to have a serious discussion over Christmas with the other half over about it, just wanted to see what ye think.

Would you leave Ireland for Sweden or any other affluent country just because our healthcare system is substandard? how important is it really to you?

I didn't leave Ireland due to fears over healthcare, although I am thankfully in good health and I'm not middle aged. That said, it would be a factor for sure in twenty years time, were I to consider moving back.

I don't think there's any perfect model of healthcare out there but I also think a lot of people don't question the current system critically enough as they've simply never experienced a better one.

Greentopia

mistersifter wrote: »

According to the UN, the only countries that have higher standards of living than us are Norway and Switzerland.

Yeah...nooo. I've never been to Switzerland but I have been to Norway a few times and they're definitely wealthier, have fewer social problems than here and much better wealth distribution. Go to Oslo and see all the Tesla cars on the streets. That country is stinkingly rich with oil money.

Greentopia

Omari Enough Photocopier wrote: »

Health is one issue, but so is the growing 'crime' levels in Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
Would appear to have surged ever since 2015.

In fairness I moved back here before then so can't comment with any real experience of what it's like now, but I have friends there and they don't seem concerned apart from a few high profile incidents that made the headlines.

I don't think it has impacted their everyday lives though.

I always felt extremely safe there.

Greentopia

Vita nova wrote: »

Indeed, the Germans tend to bypass France or just pass through it on their way to Italy or Spain for their holidays. It's ironic when you consider the common German saying Froh wie Gott in Frankreich (happy as God in France) but not I suppose when you consider those "neighbourly rivalries".

Yes I noticed that too. They have no problems with travelling in droves to those two countries-you have a little Germany in Mallorca and the fiancee is mad to go to back to Italy to Venice for our honeymoon, but I was met with a look of disapproval when I suggested France! :pac:

ush

Greentopia wrote: »

Well yes, but I think it's reasonable to expect first world care in a supposed first world country. We pay enough in taxes for one.

I wouldn't be contemplating moving to Malawi and expect it to have a Swedish standard of health care!

"supposed"

Ubbquittious

I would move to some place warm, or more remote, or both. I have never considered moving to Sweden. It seems unfriendly, overburdened with regulation and feminism and they sold their last decent sized car manufacturer to the Chinese

Even if the health system is crap it would help a lot to live in a relaxed country where nobody gives a fxxk. Somewhere warm and welcoming

Greentopia

Sugar Free wrote: »

I don't think there's any perfect model of healthcare out there but I also think a lot of people don't question the current system critically enough as they've simply never experienced a better one.

I think perhaps you're right. I don't think there's a perfect system either but there are ones that perform better and are better value for tax payers money than our one, that's for damn sure. We're too accepting of substandard services and not just in healthcare.

Experiencing how it is in another country that doesn't have the problems we have, or to the same level at least makes you see things here with a more critical eye. We set the bar too low in this country for what's seen as acceptable.

Would be particularly interested in anyone's opinion who has experience of another European healthcare system actually.

Greentopia

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I would move to some place warm, or more remote, or both. I have never considered moving to Sweden. It seems unfriendly, overburdened with regulation and feminism and they sold their last decent sized car manufacturer to the Chinese

Nah Swedes are lovely. They're introverted and value their privacy but they're a kind and warm people once you get to know them. Smart and good sense of humour too! yes they are a highly regulated country but I always found them to be common sense regulations and for the good of society.

You say "seems"...so you've never been there? if that's the case perhaps hold off on the 'nation of liberal nanny state cold feminazis' stereotype and take a trip there before coming to any conclusion about them. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Their car industry I'll take your word on.

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Even if the health system is crap it would help a lot to live in a relaxed country where nobody gives a fxxk. Somewhere warm and welcoming

I found Sweden-Gothenburg to be precise- where I lived, to be very relaxed as a city. Ordered, quiet and relaxed.

And the problem with living in a country where no-one gives a fxxk is that that's usually reflected in poor services and infrastructure as you see in poorer countries. I like a well ordered and well run country with decent services. Disorder, chaos and poverty is not relaxing or welcoming for me.

Might be fine in your twenties but not at my age.

wakka12

It's just exaggerated as usual by the media and lapped up by a gormless public who dont know any better and just love to give out because theyre bored. Have you actually dealt with any irish healthcare facilities? Mostly a totally adequate and professional service and I think your fears are mostly unwarranted especially as you think its such an important issue that you might need to immigrate, its definitely nowhere near that bad. irish healthcare is better than in most of the world

In this recent study of world health care standards by WHO, Ireland ranked two places ahead of Sweden at a very respectable number 19 in the world.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

How is the quality of healthcare determined? Several factors determine the level of healthcare quality in each country. These include the care process (preventative care measures, safe care, coordinated care, and engagement and patient preferences), access (affordability and timeliness), administrative efficiency, equity, and healthcare outcomes (population health, mortality amenable to healthcare, and disease-specific health outcomes).

But you wont hear about that in the media, just about the person who decommissioned themselves without telling anybody and went home and died and is apparently a fault of the hospital for her doing that. Fair enough the lady was hallucinating, but I see her daughter in all the articles throwing blame, where was she in this four day timeline, did she not have any time to care for her mother and bring her back to hospital?

Sugar Free

Greentopia wrote: »

Would be particularly interested in anyone's opinion who has experience of another European healthcare system actually.

Without wishing to state which country I'm in, I can offer some insight. Depends what you want to know but generally speaking - there are obligatory insurance premiums and excesses to reach before you can claim anything back.

Multiple models exist, between what is essentially telemedicine at one end and a choose-any-doctor-you-want at the other. There is a basic insurance that everyone is entitled to and extra coverage that insurers can be selective about who they insure. For lower earners it's becoming an increasing burden on their household finances.

That said the standard of care, facilities and speed of access is really excellent. I don't mind paying for it at all, especially as my partner has had significant need for healthcare services in the last year, meaning I've experienced first hand how great it is. However, I'm not in the lower income bracket of households where healthcare costs take up a decent chunk of yearly income.

Hannaho

As a nurse, who has worked in Ireland for the last 20 years, and who has worked before that in the UK, the healthcare system here is dreadful. What you see when you work in it is terrifying. While I would be happy to retire in Ireland in 10 years time, I am genuinely scared of growing old here because of the state of the Health Service. Just to give an example. One of my friend's dad was diagnosed with stomach cancer and had surgery about 6 weeks ago. My friend was in a state because she was told that none of the public health nurses could come out and do his dressings as he did not have a medical card. He is in his early 60s and was working until he got sick - he's a postman - so decent wage, but not spectacular. He has about 40k in savings. He was told that he would have to pay for a nurse privately to come in and do his dressing, or go to his GP surgery and have them done. He was very weak after the surgery, and is single now after separating a couple of years ago. His daughter lives in Dublin and he in Galway. Years ago, your public health nurse would have come out to do dressings post surgery, medical card or not. In the UK, bad and all as the press on the NHS is, the Health Visitors (equivalent to Public Health Nurses), and Community/District nurses come out and do these dressings, and it is not dependent on one's income. To give another example, my friend, who is from the UK, but had Irish parents, wants to retire here. I keep trying to dissuade her. She gives out constantly about the NHS, but when she needed an MRI recently - she received one in 6 weeks on the NHS, and was not waiting '3 years' as per one of the posters above.

Bigmac1euro

I’ve had few too many dealings with the public health system in the past 15 months and you are right to worry.
The system really is a shambles and waiting lists are long, my OH has had her operation which is badly needed canceled twice on the morning of it after her fasting from the day before and mentally preparing herself and taken work off for 4/5 days each time. Just can’t deal with the stress of it at all anymore.
If anything happens to you in this country, you’re in trouble imo.

Just to add a few points

2 years I was waiting on an MRI after my mother suffered a fatal brain hemorrhage.

My grandad picked up a disease in st. James which killed him while he was in for something separate this went to trial with court cases etc.

9 months my OH is waiting on a surgery (as mentioned above has been cancelled twice on the morning and still hasn’t been done) to add to this
we waited 12 hours in A&E one night before leaving at 3am on a Wednesday morning like zombies without seeing anyone as the doctor we finally got to see said there would be another 3 hour wait to meet a team to asses her situation.

My OH mother suffered a brain hemorrhage late last year and they attempted to discharge her a week early while still clearly confused only I wouldnnot let her leave the hospital and demanded I spoke to the head of the department. I finally got a doctor from the hospital she had been transferred from on the phone and she was kept in for the correct amount of time. (The hospitals DO NOT COMMUNICATE)

Some of our GP’s are fantastic I will say that but that’s as far is it goes with my experiences.


Some people above in this thread are saying it’s all media spin but it’s not. It really isn’t. They probably haven’t been through the system multiple times in the last few years. It’s a **** show