John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

yabadabado · 03-12-2019 06:39PM

Cooke should be ok but it's an interim job again so he probably has little power to implement change.

He definitely isnt one of JDs cronies ,so that is some help.

HalloweenJack · 03-12-2019 06:40PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

I’d have a read of this to familiarize yourself with how large the debt bomb the FAI is facing.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/delay-in-signing-off-fai-accounts-as-debt-set-to-surge-above-50million-38716317.html

I am well aware of the level of debt. And? We should stick with the guys who are responsible for it?

Football isn’t thriving in Ireland. It never has. It probably never will. The reasons for that are ingrained in the social fabric of the country for the past 100 years.

To give you one example, attendances at the LOI used to be larger. It's a different time, I know, and I doubt it'll return but to say that "it never has" is ridiculous. Then there was a period where Irish players were regularly playing for the top teams in England which is far from the case. These changes are part of the wider changes in football, that is not the FAI's fault. However, they were happy to get rich off it and have failed to respond accordingly to these changes.

On the other hand, the financial difficulties that the FAI are going through are the result of their own decisions, coupled with the lavish spending that we have seen by board members, the lack of scrutiny, the silencing of critics, etc. I think there are plenty of reasons to get rid of this board and start again.

I am not naive enough to think everything will be perfect but I don't see what there is to gain from keeping the same people in charge. We've seen what they can do and look where they've taken us. What case can you possibly have for keeping them other than "it'll cost money"? If it weren't for their incompetence, there would be more money.

Dots1982 · 03-12-2019 06:50PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I am well aware of the level of debt. And? We should stick with the guys who are responsible for it?

To give you one example, attendances at the LOI used to be larger. It's a different time, I know, and I doubt it'll return but to say that "it never has" is ridiculous. Then there was a period where Irish players were regularly playing for the top teams in England which is far from the case. These changes are part of the wider changes in football, that is not the FAI's fault. However, they were happy to get rich off it and have failed to respond accordingly to these changes.

On the other hand, the financial difficulties that the FAI are going through are the result of their own decisions, coupled with the lavish spending that we have seen by board members, the lack of scrutiny, the silencing of critics, etc. I think there are plenty of reasons to get rid of this board and start again.

I am not naive enough to think everything will be perfect but I don't see what there is to gain from keeping the same people in charge. We've seen what they can do and look where they've taken us. What case can you possibly have for keeping them other than "it'll cost money"? If it weren't for their incompetence, there would be more money.

Fair enough. We’ll see how it plays out. My main position on this is that the FAI are in a far bigger bind than I think the public know or are admitting to themselves.

kippy · 03-12-2019 07:41PM

Weepsie wrote: »

On the other hand, you have over 100 million a year being spent by people from Ireland to watch clubs in England and Scotland every year. Something like 200k trips to see clubs abroad.

That doesn't include what people spend on Sky, BT, Premier either.

There is a huge potential fanbase there to tap into, but clubs here have been left to figure it out themselves.

Will never happen.

salmocab · 03-12-2019 07:48PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The IRFU and the FAI went splits on paying for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. They cut a deal then where the FAI would co own the Aviva for X number of years. Then full ownership would revert back to the IRFU.

It was a deal with only upside for the IRFU and only downside for the FAI.

Thanks JD.

To be absolutely fair the irfu provided the land and paid millions more than the fai for the development, I don’t think the fai actually got that bad a deal as they very much brought a lot less to the table. The 60 year deal also pretty much means that by the time it’s up the stadium would probably be due to be done again.

johnnyryan89 · 03-12-2019 07:58PM

salmocab wrote: »

To be absolutely fair the irfu provided the land and paid millions more than the fai for the development, I don’t think the fai actually got that bad a deal as they very much brought a lot less to the table. The 60 year deal also pretty much means that by the time it’s up the stadium would probably be due to be done again.

FAI basically just paid their rent up front in a big lump sum towards the cost of redevelopment. Though in classic FAI style they made a balls of that putting themselves in massive debt.

salmocab · 03-12-2019 09:11PM

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

FAI basically just paid their rent up front in a big lump sum towards the cost of redevelopment. Though in classic FAI style they made a balls of that putting themselves in massive debt.

They made an absolute pigs ear of selling the 10 year tickets. If they’d managed that right initially they’d have taken pressure off. I don’t think the stadium deal was a bad deal it was absolutely everything they did afterwards that was wrong.

Fr Tod Umptious · 03-12-2019 09:16PM

salmocab wrote: »

They made an absolute pigs ear of selling the 10 year tickets. If they’d managed that right initially they’d have taken pressure off. I don’t think the stadium deal was a bad deal it was absolutely everything they did afterwards that was wrong.

Yes the stadium deal was not bad considering the costs of building something themselves elsewhere.

And remember the old LR was demolished in late 2006, slap bang in the middle of the property bubble, there would have been feck all at a decent price around Dublin at the time.

With regard to teh 10 year tickets, I'd cut them some slack for the fact that they ere selling them in 2008 (they could have not sold them any earlier) which was when the recession had hit.

Had that stadium been developed in 2003/2004 they would have sold those 10 years ticket for those prices I believe.

johnnyryan89 · 03-12-2019 09:23PM

salmocab wrote: »

They made an absolute pigs ear of selling the 10 year tickets. If they’d managed that right initially they’d have taken pressure off. I don’t think the stadium deal was a bad deal it was absolutely everything they did afterwards that was wrong.

They made an absolute balls of the 10 year tickets. The stadium deal was a good deal imo, basically give us X amount that we're short and ye can remain here rent free for X amount years.

The fact their 50/50 in the stadium would lead me to think that they also earn money that comes from concerts or whatever events are held in the Aviva. They have to have something like that for UEFA to suggest about selling their share of the stadium back to the IRFU. Because why would the IRFU give them money to buy back what will basically become fully there's again in time.

johnnyryan89 · 03-12-2019 09:28PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

With regard to teh 10 year tickets, I'd cut them some slack for the fact that they ere selling them in 2008 (they could have not sold them any earlier) which was when the recession had hit.

Had that stadium been developed in 2003/2004 they would have sold those 10 years ticket for those prices I believe.

They had a ticket company willing to give them the money that they needed for the stadium and taking all the risk of selling the tickets. Not an inch of slack should be given as they put the association into massive debt by being greedy.

Synode · 03-12-2019 10:44PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The IRFU and the FAI went splits on paying for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. They cut a deal then where the FAI would co own the Aviva for X number of years. Then full ownership would revert back to the IRFU.

It was a deal with only upside for the IRFU and only downside for the FAI.

Thanks JD.

Wait. What. Have you a link?

grbear · 03-12-2019 11:03PM

https://web.archive.org/web/20100918151348/http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/sep/12/numbers-dont-add-up/

The FAI and IRFU each own half of the company running the Aviva.
That company has a 60 year lease on the land the stadium is built on.
After 60 years the lease is up and the stadium becomes the IRFUs property.

It now sounds like a bad deal for the FAI because of the way the initial 10 year ticket sales were bungled but if they had managed things properly then they'd have their share of the stadium either paid for or close to paid for at this stage. That'd leave them decades to reap the benefits of finally "owning" a share of their home patch before entering into a new partnership with the IRFU to rebuild the stadium again or trying to build a stadium they own 100%.

yabadabado · 03-12-2019 11:13PM

Synode wrote: »

Wait. What. Have you a link?

The stadium cost 410m.The government gave 190m towards the cost with the FAI paying about 75m and the IRFU paying the remainder.

Imo it wasnt a bad deal,IRFU owe the site and after 60 years it reverts to their 100% ownership. By that time the stadium will need a revamp .

The absolute massive **** up by JD of turning down the 3rd party deal to sell the tickets for a lump sum is one of the great **** ups of any organisation in this country.

Iirc the cheapest 10 year ticket FAI tried to sell was 12k with that rising to 32k.They sold less than half of the 10000 seats .Its now a flat fee of 5k .
ISG offered to buy up the rights to all the tickets for 75m and take the profit/loss on it .JD knew better !

If it was done right back in 2009/10 they could have taken the money from ISG for the ten year and then had then had the next 5o years of the stadium generating them decent income .

Beechwoodspark · 03-12-2019 11:17PM

JDs decision to sell off the tickets at a bargain basement fire sale rate is slightly....odd....

Seth Brundle · 04-12-2019 12:24AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

JDs decision to sell off the tickets at a bargain basement fire sale rate is slightly....odd....

Did you ever hear anyone say that JD was a good businessman?

yabadabado · 04-12-2019 01:01AM

5k for a ten year ticket isnt bad especially for businesses. I'd like to know how many of the 10k they have sold.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 04-12-2019 04:38PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Did you ever hear anyone say that JD was a good businessman?

Yes. Denis O Brien said on the documentary John The Baptist that he could run FIFA he is so capable.

overpronator · 04-12-2019 04:41PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Yes. Denis O Brien said on the documentary John The Baptist that he could run FIFA he is so capable.

May have seen him as a good fit based on certain other "skillsets"

Zebra3 · 04-12-2019 04:54PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Yes. Denis O Brien said on the documentary John The Baptist that he could run FIFA he is so capable.

A man who became wealthy by bribing a politician.

Someone who is/was a mate of some sort of Delaney's.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Seth Brundle · 04-12-2019 05:09PM

We're near the end now. Once the money stops then there's nothing left...
Further blow for FAI as Three Ireland opts not to renew sponsorship

SEPT 23 1989 · 04-12-2019 05:10PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

We're near the end now. Once the money stops then there's nothing left...
Further blow for FAI as Three Ireland opts not to renew sponsorship

great news

an end to those poxy looking jerseys

Irishmale0399 · 04-12-2019 05:15PM

Love it....a new start with the right people is what is needed. Too many still trying to cover up and milk it.

Dots1982 · 04-12-2019 05:24PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

great news

an end to those poxy looking jerseys

Fcuking hell, least of our bleeding worries.

Fr Tod Umptious · 04-12-2019 05:59PM

So the FAI lose their shirt sponsor and people are delighted.

You do know that the next sponsor will also want their logon on each replica shirt, and that the FAI will be in no position to argue.

Seth Brundle · 04-12-2019 06:30PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So the FAI lose their shirt sponsor and people are delighted.

You do know that the next sponsor will also want their logon on each replica shirt, and that the FAI will be in no position to argue.

I don't think any self respecting company will want to sponsor the FAI until this has blown over.
Without the vital funds from sponsorship and the state, there will be demands for proper governance and transparency to allow the money come in again.

Dots1982 · 04-12-2019 06:38PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I don't think any self respecting company will want to sponsor the FAI until this has blown over.
Without the vital funds from sponsorship and the state, there will be demands for proper governance and transparency to allow the money come in again.

If the FAI collaspe and are replaced by a new body. Are they going to be saddled with the debt of 50 million the FAI have ran up? Or is that going to miraculously be paid off somehow?

irishgeo · 04-12-2019 06:39PM

next up is a betting company, they will have no other option.

Father Hernandez · 04-12-2019 06:41PM

irishgeo wrote: »

next up is a betting company, they will have no other option.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Paddy Power 'unsponsor' the national team, prob the best opportunity for them with the scandal and some companies if any, unwilling to pay up.

Dots1982 · 04-12-2019 07:07PM

sugarman wrote: »

Theyre no different than any other company, if they collapse they'd have to go into liquidation and have whatever assets sold off to pay its debts if they cant sort it out.

If they sell their 50 year lease for to the Aviva though, they should be alright. They'd get the cash up front to clear their debt, but will be left footing the bill for renting the Aviva for future use. It'll be like a remortage and Irish football will feel the effects of it for a long long time.

Indeed, just asked to see if there is awareness that’s what’s round the corner for football in Ireland is long long term pain. Seems scant awareness from seeing posts.

04-12-2019 07:11PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Indeed, just asked to see if there is awareness that’s what’s round the corner for football in Ireland is long long term pain. Seems scant awareness from seeing posts.

Something has to change.

John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

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