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65 year old man dies in UK jobcentre

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2

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    #32
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    Better Than Christ wrote: »
    The rules are very strict over there. He's probably still classed as fit for work.

    Along with many others. I have a relative who worked as a teacher over. She did her time and had to retire but got her job back on temp 0hr contracts. She is in her 60's.

    She had a stroke last year, in a wheelchair as lost the use of her left side. Speech extremely poor. Just been declared fit for work.


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    #33
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    katiek102010 wrote: »
    Only source I can link but all UK media have it.

    His age is relevant as if he had turned 65 pre April he would have been able to retire

    And if my Auntie had balls she'd be my Uncle.


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    #34
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    badabing106 wrote: »
    Reminds me of this elderly guy on living on the streets in that channel 4 documentary recently.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczGgfxqnYI

    Have you seen I Daniel Blake, based on a true story


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    #35
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    lawred2 wrote: »
    what's your point? :confused:

    My point is this is just an example of people being forced to work even though they have serious health issues, at an age whereby they shough be retired and being refused disability or health benefits, by civil servants who ignore medical professionals


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    #36
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Well some of it is absolute nonsense and also not unique to the UK.
    We have practically the identical system here. The staff do not say if a person is fit to work a doctor does. The give a full assessment of a person's abilities such as ability to walk, pick up things, mental awareness etc.. then there is an education assessment. So if you spent your life as a brick layer and now can't lift anything they don't say the person is fit to work in an office doing admin work. They will say the person isn't fit for work at 64 due to retirement age.

    You can be deemed fit for work and still die of an illness. It is not the same as a clean bill of health

    In the UK anyone who apply for illness /disability has to apply and be assessed by a private contractor called ATOS. ATOS are admin staff not medical.

    They have the final say if you are for for work not a doctor or specialist.

    They are also paid commission for how much they save the government on an annual basis


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    #37
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    katiek102010 wrote: »
    In the UK anyone who apply for illness /disability has to apply and be assessed by a private contractor called ATOS. ATOS are admin staff not medical.

    They have the final say if you are for for work not a doctor or specialist.

    They are also paid commission for how much they save the government on an annual basis

    neither system sounds perfect, here you go in, just lash out the sob story and bobs your uncle! $$$


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    #38
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    The real problem is that the old age pension and disability allowance is too much to sustain. We should bring in a gradual rate of pension payment at 65 instead of raising the age over and over. Many 65 year olds might not be capable of working a 40 hour week. But if some level of payment kicks in at 65 they can top up their income with a part time job.

    If I make it to to old age I can see the retirement age being over 70 if we don't come up with some compromised solution.

    There is enough money in the social welfare system, it's just not being targeted correctly.


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    #39
    Steer55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭Steer55


    katiek102010 wrote: »
    My point is this is just an example of people being forced to work even though they have serious health issues, at an age whereby they shough be retired and being refused disability or health benefits, by civil servants who ignore medical professionals

    Whats going on in uk.job.centers is nothing short of cruelty . The Tories for 3 years have done nothing.but.arsed about with their Brexit, in the meanwhile, the homeless numbers continue to mount up on the streets, anyone.notice the huge increase in amount.of homeless.people sleeping in Manchester, London and.numerous other British cities these days.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/19/london-rough-sleeping-hits-record-high-with-18-rise-in-2018-19


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    #40
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Scoundrel wrote: »
    The deceased reportedly suffered from diabetes and was clearly not well, but officials at the centre had nonetheless deemed him ‘fit for work.’

    Heartless bastards maybe some of the posters here want to work till they die but most normal people would like a few years of retirement I dont think that's too much to ask from a first world country.


    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dwp-denies-man-who-died-17274929
    It is being widely reported that the man died after being declared fit to work.

    Websites are running quotes from an unnamed witness saying: "I didn't know him myself, but the man who was sat next to me told me that he had grown up with the guy. The man next to me told me that the poorly guy had diabetes and had been declared fit for work by the Job Centre earlier in the year, but he was obviously ill. The ambulance came, but he sadly died, and they had to take his body out of the Job Centre. It was awful."

    But a DWP source said reports the man had been declared fit to work were inaccurate and that he had been attending routine appointments for more than a year.

    So this appears to be a story based on hearsay


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    #41
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Not for or against working after 65 and I don't know how I'll feel until that age, but unless the person has health issues, 65 now isn't the frail old age people claim it is. There might be people who want to keep working that bit longer. I know two who do. And only because they want to - not have to.


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    #42
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    QFT, as a 54 year old diabetic I'd be mightily pissed off if I wasn't still fighting fit in 10 years time. No two diabetics are the same of course but so much about the condition is dictated by how you live your life, the choices you make.


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    #43
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dwp-denies-man-who-died-17274929



    So this appears to be a story based on hearsay

    Routine appts with the DWP are not the same as here. While you are awaiting illness payments etc you have to attend weekly,

    They tell you when to go, the appointment cannot be changed. If you have a hospital appt or therapy appt the DWP don't care. Your appts have to be cancelled. You can br the Letter to them before the schedule the appt. If you don't go you are sanctioned they call it. As a result you miss your appt with the hospital can't get your meds etc.


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    #44
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »
    The real problem is that the old age pension and disability allowance is too much to sustain. We should bring in a gradual rate of pension payment at 65 instead of raising the age over and over. Many 65 year olds might not be capable of working a 40 hour week. But if some level of payment kicks in at 65 they can top up their income with a part time job.

    If I make it to to old age I can see the retirement age being over 70 if we don't come up with some compromised solution.

    There is enough money in the social welfare system, it's just not being targeted correctly.

    People pay into their pensions they are entitled to draw them. It's the governments fault for not investing correctly


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    #45
    bennyineire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    Around 1400 people die every day in England/Wales

    Care to tell us what age they were and where and why they died ?


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    #46
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Thankfully Ireland will never ever drop to the depths of the UK social welfare system.

    When you pay an extra couple fo cent here and there, or pay a little extra tax, think of all those you know that are getting a pension, those who are genuinely out of work, those who are too ill to work, parents who receive children's allowances etc.

    Yes, our system is generous and yes there are those who will take advantage.

    But if you are out of work, if you are long term ill, if you are on a state pension and if you have children, be thankful you live here and not in the UK.

    There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate


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    #47
    Steer55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭Steer55


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Thankfully Ireland will never ever drop to the depths of the UK social welfare system.

    When you pay an extra couple fo cent here and there, or pay a little extra tax, think of all those you know that are getting a pension, those who are genuinely out of work, those who are too ill to work, parents who receive children's allowances etc.

    Yes, our system is generous and yes there are those who will take advantage.

    But if you are out of work, if you are long term ill, if you are on a state pension and if you have children, be thankful you live here and not in the UK.

    There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate

    Very well said


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    #48
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Thankfully Ireland will never ever drop to the depths of the UK social welfare system.

    When you pay an extra couple fo cent here and there, or pay a little extra tax, think of all those you know that are getting a pension, those who are genuinely out of work, those who are too ill to work, parents who receive children's allowances etc.

    Yes, our system is generous and yes there are those who will take advantage.

    But if you are out of work, if you are long term ill, if you are on a state pension and if you have children, be thankful you live here and not in the UK.

    There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate

    Having worked andived over there you are very right. Everyday I saw people working over there who could not afford to feed themselves.

    Avg wage over is 8-10k p Pay tax on that and see how much money you have to live on. Not forgetting you have to pay council tax water gas and elec too.

    A Co in civil service over at the top end gets 16k pa
    .


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    #49
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Thankfully Ireland will never ever drop to the depths of the UK social welfare system.

    When you pay an extra couple fo cent here and there, or pay a little extra tax, think of all those you know that are getting a pension, those who are genuinely out of work, those who are too ill to work, parents who receive children's allowances etc.

    Yes, our system is generous and yes there are those who will take advantage.

    But if you are out of work, if you are long term ill, if you are on a state pension and if you have children, be thankful you live here and not in the UK.

    There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate

    yeah? think of all the hard working people f*cked, paying for it! Cant afford the basics themselves. But yeah, keep on supporting the welfare trap, the welfare state! A marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent over a pittance of an income, it will really encourage enterprise and commitment, keep the bright sparks here :rolleyes:

    But we have have an obscene welfare state, to keep the likes of margaret cash etc from leaving us :rolleyes:
    There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate
    yeah? you know how cheap that stuff is over there? probably a few p! I bet the folks can afford takeaways and the essentials of sky tv and expensive mobile phones though! Throwing more money at people who are appalling with it, isnt the solution!


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    #50
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    katiek102010 wrote: »
    People pay into their pensions they are entitled to draw them. It's the governments fault for not investing correctly

    I know that people are entitled to draw their pension. My point is that the government will continue to increase the age that someone will qualify for it.

    My point is that instead of raising the age of retirement (which is what the plan is right now), surely a better alternative would be to bring in some level of payment for those turning 65 but on an upward sliding scale. That allows people to work less while still being comfortable as they approach their 70's.

    I mean it'll be 2060 before I'm entitled to one. The retirement age will have increased substantially by then if we don't implement some other way of doing this.

    I mean my dad is getting close to retirement age. But he works as an independent contractor so can take on as much or as little work as he feels able for. I can see him working until his late 70's on a reduced schedule if his health allows it. And he has his house paid off and is not hurting for money. I just know he'll want to keep active.


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    #51
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,028 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Won't someone think of the children oul wans.


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    #52
    Alpha_zero
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Alpha_zero


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    What's the point being made? That being in the job centre caused him to die?

    Bro formulate an opinion of your own jeez


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    #53
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    yeah? think of all the hard working people f*cked, paying for it! Cant afford the basics themselves. But yeah, keep on supporting the welfare trap, the welfare state! A marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent over a pittance of an income, it will really encourage enterprise and commitment, keep the bright sparks here :rolleyes:

    But we have have an obscene welfare state, to keep the likes of margaret cash etc from leaving us :rolleyes:

    yeah? you know how cheap that stuff is over there? probably a few p! I bet the folks can afford takeaways and the essentials of sky tv and expensive mobile phones though! Throwing more money at people who are appalling with it, isnt the solution!

    Tbh I don't know if you are purposely looking for an argument or extremely ignorant.

    The majority of working families in the UK have about 40-50 quid a week to live on after putting a roof over their heads paying council tax, gas elec, water, and service charges.

    Childcare costs about 200 quid a week.

    It's absolutely wonderful to live it a little bubble of your own ideas

    Well done you


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    #54
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    katiek102010 wrote: »
    Tbh I don't know if you are purposely looking for an argument or extremely ignorant.

    The majority of working families in the UK have about 40-50 quid a week to live on after putting a roof over their heads paying council tax, gas elec, water, and service charges.

    Childcare costs about 200 quid a week.

    It's absolutely wonderful to live it a little bubble of your own ideas

    Well done you

    A bubble? LOL! I know many working people screwed, paying for this endless welfare state, those on it do nothing but bitch about it! dissapear off to non bailed our countries, like the uk, germany, see how much you get there. See you how much pisstaking and excuses their government and taxpayer deem acceptable over there!

    We have the over two hundred million welfare bonus coming up, bonanza for tesco, the bookies, jd sports and pubs etc. Couldnt possibly think of a better way for that money to be spent :rolleyes:

    I mean our infrastructure is class, very little debt, more than enough prison spaces to lock up scum! Hospitals are world class etc... Why not bump it up to five hundred million next year...


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    #55
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,808 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Idbatterim wrote:
    A bubble? LOL! I know many working people screwed, paying for this endless welfare state, those on it do nothing but bitch about it! dissapear off to non bailed our countries, like the uk, germany, see how much you get there. See you how much pisstaking and excuses their government and taxpayer deem acceptable over there!


    You do realise our bailouts went to largely French and German banks, yea?


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    #56
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    A bubble? LOL! I know many working people screwed, paying for this endless welfare state, those on it do nothing but bitch about it! dissapear off to non bailed our countries, like the uk, germany, see how much you get there. See you how much pisstaking and excuses their government and taxpayer deem acceptable over there!

    We have the over two hundred million welfare bonus coming up, bonanza for tesco, the bookies, jd sports and pubs etc. Couldnt possibly think of a better way for that money to be spent :rolleyes:

    I mean our infrastructure is class, very little debt, more than enough prison spaces to lock up scum! Hospitals are world class etc... Why not bump it up to five hundred million next year...

    So do you classify OAPs who have worked their entire lives and paid PRSi for 50+ years as welfare scroungers
    Is a mum dying of cancer or another terminal illness a welfare scrounger.
    Is a child born with a severe mental or physical disability a welfare scrounger.
    Is the parent /spouse who has to give up work to look after their seriously and possibly terminally ill family member a welfare scrounger.

    Can you please define


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    #57
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    katiek102010 wrote: »
    Tbh I don't know if you are purposely looking for an argument or extremely ignorant.

    The majority of working families in the UK have about 40-50 quid a week to live on after putting a roof over their heads paying council tax, gas elec, water, and service charges.

    Childcare costs about 200 quid a week.

    It's absolutely wonderful to live it a little bubble of your own ideas

    Well done you

    My uncle lives in a fairly rough area in London...it's police station is 10 times bigger than the Limerick Garda Station and roughly 1/2 the population of Limerick city...his council tax £1500 roughly...£125 a month a top of your normal expenses


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    #58
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    katiek102010 wrote: »
    So do you classify OAPs who have worked their entire lives and paid PRSi for 50+ years as welfare scroungers
    Is a mum dying of cancer or another terminal illness a welfare scrounger.
    Is a child born with a severe mental or physical disability a welfare scrounger.
    Is the parent /spouse who has to give up work to look after their seriously and possibly terminally ill family member a welfare scrounger.

    Can you please define

    Tell you what why don't we just euthanise every one at the first sign of a grey hair or illness. Will that suit your ideology


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    #59
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    You do realise our bailouts went to largely French and German banks, yea?

    yeah, I also realise tens of billions were borrowed, to keep our status as europes most impressive welfare state! Its great now that everything else is world class here, transport, housing, health etc, that we can start throwing money like its going out of fashion, to those with no intention of ever working, margaret cash etc, people that are just so deserving of other citizens money!


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    #60
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    My uncle lives in a fairly rough area in London...it's police station is 10 times bigger than the Limerick Garda Station and roughly 1/2 the population of Limerick city...his council tax £1500 roughly...£125 a month a top of your normal expenses

    I lived in Kent, 3 bed end of terrace. Mortgage 1000k pm, childcare 500 for morning and after school. Ctax was 180pm plus water 60, gas and elec


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    #61
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    What's the point being made? That being in the job centre caused him to die?

    Work till death


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