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Positive/negative thinking

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  • 11-11-2019 10:04pm
    #1
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭


    Do you believe any of it? It's been a feature of pop-psychology over the last 20-30 years that all we need to do is have "positive thoughts" and things will be okay but it's bull**** in a sense no?

    No doubt that some people may have a problem with self-pity but if you're in a **** situation then thinking positively won't make it better. You need to make it better. Even when it's in your mind, a lot of our thoughts aren't controllable. Actions to a certain extent yes but chemicals firing in the brain can change how you feel thus think thus act thus "feel good" messages don't work. If they did we wouldn't have any recreational drug use because people would just will themselves to be happy.


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    #2
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    I kind of agree with the idea of staying positive to avoid getting into a rut (although you run into people who confuse reality with negativity), but not the new age tosh of positivity where the universe rewards you.


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    #3
    barneygumble99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭barneygumble99


    I work with someone who is extremely negative and would gladly drag you down to his level if you listened to him every day. Hates the job, hates the company, hates dealing with the public, just a miserable bast**d all round. Big dark cloud following him all day. It would start to get in on you if you stopped to talk to him.


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    #4
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Im not sure how much a positive attitude will help you but I really know a negative attitude to everything will destroy your life


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    #5
    mr_fegelien
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    I work with someone who is extremely negative and would gladly drag you down to his level if you listened to him every day. Hates the job, hates the company, hates dealing with the public, just a miserable bast**d all round. Big dark cloud following him all day. It would start to get in on you if you stopped to talk to him.

    Any friends or is he a loner?


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    #6
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Thinking positively won't result in positive outcomes in life but living a life full of negative thoughts doesn't lead to any good.


    But, a word of advice, don't over think things. And leave the obsession with recreational drugs aside until you've matured somewhat.


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    I work with someone who is extremely negative and would gladly drag you down to his level if you listened to him every day. Hates the job, hates the company, hates dealing with the public, just a miserable bast**d all round. Big dark cloud following him all day. It would start to get in on you if you stopped to talk to him.

    I know someone like that in work but they're completely different when they're off the clock. Sometimes work is just **** and it's grand if you can separate it.

    I don't like to be too positive in any respect personally as you can never be too disappointed then at least.


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    #8
    Muppet Man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭Muppet Man


    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    I work with someone who is extremely negative and would gladly drag you down to his level if you listened to him every day. Hates the job, hates the company, hates dealing with the public, just a miserable bast**d all round. Big dark cloud following him all day. It would start to get in on you if you stopped to talk to him.

    Taxi driver?


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    #9
    Sharp MZ700
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭Sharp MZ700


    Always connect the earth first is all I'd advise.


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    #10
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Muppet Man wrote: »
    Taxi driver?

    A life coach?


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    #11
    Stacksofwacks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Stacksofwacks


    barneygumble99 wrote: »
    I work with someone who is extremely negative and would gladly drag you down to his level if you listened to him every day. Hates the job, hates the company, hates dealing with the public, just a miserable bast**d all round. Big dark cloud following him all day. It would start to get in on you if you stopped to talk to him.

    Its quite possible your colleague has depression. A constant pessimistic outlook is one of the symptoms. Or else he's just one of these self absorbed toxic people who you should just steer clear of. Either way you should ask him if he has ever spoken to someone about whatever issues he has.


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    #12
    wylo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Do you believe any of it? It's been a feature of pop-psychology over the last 20-30 years that all we need to do is have "positive thoughts" and things will be okay but it's bull**** in a sense no?

    No doubt that some people may have a problem with self-pity but if you're in a **** situation then thinking positively won't make it better. You need to make it better. Even when it's in your mind, a lot of our thoughts aren't controllable. Actions to a certain extent yes but chemicals firing in the brain can change how you feel thus think thus act thus "feel good" messages don't work. If they did we wouldn't have any recreational drug use because people would just will themselves to be happy.


    Recreational drug use and unhappiness are not interdependent you know.

    Regarding your overall point, it depends on what you're referring to, if its just the general "have a positive attitude and good things will come your way" point of view, then, to be fair, there is some merit in it. But not because of mysterious forces, but because if you are prone to a positive attitude you are probably more likely to find yourself in good situations due to improved motivation, more willing to take risks, being more likeable and easy to get on with, not to mention simply perceiving things as positive.

    On the other hand, if someone is depressed or grieving badly or is experiencing awful news I dont think anyone is claiming "think positive" will fix them these days, especially not any decent therapists. That said, CBT IS a more controlled, respectable version of this, but that is more about realising things are not true that perceived as negative.


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    #13
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Yeah inappropriate positivity is the new opium of the people. Hippies used to be activists, protesters - successful ones. Then they got sold the idea of disappearing up your own buttholes instead.

    I've found that being appropriately negative and outspoken has benefitted me, for example, in advancing my career, increasing my remuneration and getting the best medical care for my family. The most positive cheerful people are the ones cheerfully sitting in junior roles and working late regardless of having plenty of experience and apparent ability.


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    #14
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,199 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I think finding the write balance is the way to go.
    I don't really believe on telling people just believe you can achieve it and you will achieve it. When the circumstances will never allow it.
    Also being a real whinger doesn't help things.


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    #15
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I'm quite negative these days, but I usually keep it to myself in real life. Thankfully have Boards to vent! But we're constantly surrounded by negativity, especially in the news, because no one would tune in/read papers if it was mostly good. I stopped reading papers as it was putting me in a bad mood, similarly I don't watch the news anymore. If it's not something about someone getting murdered, or some other shocking article, it's articles from the entitled giving out because life wasn't easy and they deserve more.

    Nowadays, I surround myself with things I like and am interested in, and that's call I care for. People may call me a hermit, but I'm happier now than I have been for a long time. People make other people negative imo.


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    #16
    Stacksofwacks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Stacksofwacks


    Yeah I don't know what it is about bad news/negative stories that people find fascinating..maybe it gives people some kind of solace that there are worse things in life out there? I'm sure there is some psychological reason behind it, otherwise the Main stream media would be out of buisness


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    #17
    barneygumble99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭barneygumble99


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Any friends or is he a loner?

    Married with two kids.


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    #18
    barneygumble99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭barneygumble99


    Muppet Man wrote: »
    Taxi driver?

    Nope, mechanic.


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    #19
    barneygumble99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭barneygumble99


    Stacksofwacks wrote: »
    Its quite possible your colleague has depression. A constant pessimistic outlook is one of the symptoms. Or else he's just one of these self absorbed toxic people who you should just steer clear of. Either way you should ask him if he has ever spoken to someone about whatever issues he has.

    I wouldn’t say he’s depressed, all the stuff he has a down on, he wouldn’t change. I said to him once, if you hate the job so much why don’t u change. His answer was better the devil you know. I actually think he’s happy being miserable.


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    #20
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,411 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There is a whole industry around sports psychology persuading professional sport people to think positively, visualise themselves winning etc


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    #21
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,220 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Some of us have been lucky, if that be a positive. Then again... "If I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all."


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    #22
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Studies over the last decade or so how shown that "positive thinking" in general has a better effect on one's mental health. Even "fake it till you make it" has been shown to have an improving effect on mild depression.

    Which sounds like new agey bullsh1t, but the data is there.

    And naturally, people who are more positive about things and who act outwardly in a more positive way, will have better outcomes - mentally, socially & financially - than someone who is always negative and acts outwardly negative.


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    #23
    enfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭enfield


    I knew this woman once and she had a bad opinion on everything, as my father used to say 'All things look yellow to a jaundiced eye' type of thing. I said it to her that she has nothing good or positive to say, she replies " I am just being realistic". The thing is all her realism is negative.


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    #24
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    enfield wrote: »
    I knew this woman once and she had a bad opinion on everything, as my father used to say 'All things look yellow to a jaundiced eye' type of thing. I said it to her that she has nothing good or positive to say, she replies " I am just being realistic". The thing is all her realism is negative.
    Pessimists never think of themselves as pessimists, they always think they're realists.

    Because the entire world looks negative to them. If anyone ever says, "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist", then you know they're definitely a pessimist.


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    #25
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,220 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    seamus wrote: »
    Studies over the last decade or so how shown that "positive thinking" in general has a better effect on one's mental health. Even "fake it till you make it" has been shown to have an improving effect on mild depression.
    Martin, MW (1997), Caring About Clients, Professional Ethics, Vol. 6, Nos 1 & 2, discussed how "pretending to care" about clients positively affected their cure. It was required reading for students learning to be nurses attending university across the pond. I was at a US conference awhile back and there were a group of nurses laughing about the article, especially when they thought about some of the GPs they had known, who seemed to be more interested in money than their patients. They had a lot of pretending to do.


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    #26
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,860 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    You only have to read some of the threads around here to see negative people in full flight.

    The whingey thread about holidaying in Ireland, the constant woman/dole/foreigner bashing stuff. While no one is expected to be a smiling ray of sunshine 24/7, and everyone can have down days, being constantly negative must be draining.

    Negative people spend too much time whinging about what others have rather than focusing on themselves.

    Agree there is an industry based on positive thinking and "can do" attitude and most of it is basic common sense."I CAN do it" is a powerful statement rather than 20 reasons why I can't.

    You see some people overcome challenging situations and do well, for example, people with physical disabilities completing marathons and their attitude is paramount to their success. People like that are an inspiration.


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Do you believe any of it? It's been a feature of pop-psychology over the last 20-30 years that all we need to do is have "positive thoughts" and things will be okay but it's bull**** in a sense no?

    In a sense, for sure. But I think there is so much packed up in "Positive Thinking" that it is hard to say. It tends to mean different things to different people.

    Certainly happy slappy thinking is not going to shoot magical rays out into the universe and modify it to your benefit. And I do not put much stock in those positivity tapes where you repeat mantras to yourself about your self worth and so forth.

    But all that said - positive outlooks can lead you to take chances in life where more negative people might wallow in a situation they do not like but at least feels secure. While certain kinds of negative thought - especially worry and stressful ones - can manifest in actual health impacts. Not to mention the social impacts of whether people want to be around a happy person or a negative downer.

    But the whole "Positive Thinking" thing can backfire and be harmful too - and much of the data for it is questionable.

    For me I try to deal with the world through a range of thinking types - rather than focusing on looking at everything positively or negatively exclusively - I try to do both and more in between. See it from all sides in all ways. And I deal with harmful thoughts and emotions and issues of self esteem in ways other than merely trying to inject my thoughts with happy slappy feelz.


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    #28
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Do you believe any of it? It's been a feature of pop-psychology over the last 20-30 years that all we need to do is have "positive thoughts" and things will be okay but it's bull**** in a sense no?

    No doubt that some people may have a problem with self-pity but if you're in a **** situation then thinking positively won't make it better. You need to make it better. Even when it's in your mind, a lot of our thoughts aren't controllable. Actions to a certain extent yes but chemicals firing in the brain can change how you feel thus think thus act thus "feel good" messages don't work. If they did we wouldn't have any recreational drug use because people would just will themselves to be happy.

    This is what your posts are like:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NjISA-FIIA


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    #29
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    I can see some sense to it all. I agree that thinking positively about a situation wont make that situation any better, but I do think positive thinking will likely result in a better mindset, which in turn will drive someone to make positive changes... so kind of yeah positive thinking does work, but it drives other factors which in turn can pull someone our of a bad place and improve their situation.

    Our biggest critic is our own mind, but it can also be our biggest weapon.


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    #30
    Andreas77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Andreas77


    was same for you or different?


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    #31
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    anewme wrote: »
    Agree there is an industry based on positive thinking and "can do" attitude and most of it is basic common sense."I CAN do it" is a powerful statement rather than 20 reasons why I can't.

    I see your point, but I believe we can easily fall victim to the "You can do it!" strain of positive thinking. Many people pursue careers in areas like music, acting, art, creative writing, and so on, telling themselves that they can succeed if they just have the right attitude — even if the number of aspiring actors, artists, or novelists who end up becoming big names, or even making a decent living, is infinitesimally small.

    There was a thread recently about a young woman who spent her 20s pursuing a music career in New York, waitressing on the side, only to wind up back in Ireland, about to turn 30, with virtually nothing to her name and struggling to figure out a way forward.

    Positive thinking, following your dreams, etc., is all very well, but it can also blind people to an objective, realistic appraisal of their talents, abilities, and prospects. That's when it becomes dangerous.


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