RTÉ to cease DAB broadcasting

dav09 · 07-11-2019 01:18PM

RTE Gold and 2XM were decent stations. Listened to 2XM mostly in my car it's a shame to see it go. I can't imagine either station costing a fortune to run, I always wondered why ads aren't operated on the DAB network and if that would help towards sustainability.

DAB is a strange one, for many countries in Europe, FM is being turned off, making us one of the few countries to backtrack on DAB roll-out. The licencing situation around it has been appalling and it's crazy to see that we now have a national pirate DAB multiplex (FreeDAB) due to this. Even if it's been slow, it does seem to be the general direction things are moving in: https://www.techuk.org/insights/news/item/14327-the-eu-parliament-backs-the-mandating-of-digital-radio-in-cars

I hope RTE take good consideration to reverse this as it may cost in the long run, if FM had to go down the line (under EU rules/ bandwidth reasons/ etc). But it's doubtful and an awful shame.

AwaitYourReply · 07-11-2019 01:35PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Maybe it is-but it has an extremely limited audience. People driving in their cars can't access it, and unless you live in Dublin, Cork, or Limerick-you won't get it either.

Apparently Lyric Fm is still up in the air-it could close down, or it could remain open. Nobody has a definitive answer to that.

The presenters, I imagine, will be fine-it's the people behind the scenes who are in trouble.

Yes I suspect audience figures for all of RTÉ Digital-Only/DAB are relatively low. Lyric fm will only continue (albeit for now) as a much reduced service and shared between RTÉ Studios in Dublin & Cork. One would wonder if it's hours will be cut as part of these cost cutting changes.

I am not so sure all presenters at RTÉ will be fine going forward - some contracts may be allowed to expire and not necessarily renewed if you read in-between the lines.

RTÉ Radio 2fm should be closed and the frequency re-allocated to "RTÉ Gold" on FM 24/7 with more live presenter shows during daytime hours. Older audiences listen to traditional methods - I cannot see how today's 2fm as a station can keep stabilising or growing it's younger audiences into the future. The station is aimed at younger demographic which will tend to listen to music via other methods like Spotify etc;
RTÉ News Now should be closed immediately
RTÉ 2 should be closed given that all major sport is now transferring across to RTÉ One tv and all kids programming is already on a dedicated kids channel RTÉjr which should be able to fund itself through commercial advertising.

Harry Palmr · 07-11-2019 01:40PM

So then when is freedab (sounds like a particularly niche form of modern dance) coming to Waterford

Zird · 07-11-2019 01:40PM

dav09 wrote: »

RTE Gold and 2XM were decent stations. Listened to 2XM mostly in my car it's a shame to see it go. I can't imagine either station costing a fortune to run, I always wondered why ads aren't operated on the DAB network and if that would help towards sustainability.

DAB is a strange one, for many countries in Europe, FM is being turned off, making us one of the few countries to backtrack on DAB roll-out. The licencing situation around it has been appalling and it's crazy to see that we now have a national pirate DAB multiplex (FreeDAB) due to this. Even if it's been slow, it does seem to be the general direction things are moving in: tps://g/insights/news/item/14327-the-eu-parliament-backs-t

I hope RTE take good consideration to reverse this as it may cost in the long run, if FM had to go down the line (under EU rules/ bandwidth reasons/ etc). But it's doubtful and an awful shame.

It never ceases to amaze me the reaction that every story, regardless of what is, about RTE gets on boards. we are not the only country to abandon DAB, Finland, Singapore, Hong Kong & Canada have done the same. Dab is a busted flush in this country, it has been clear since 2008 that it was never going to be rolled out any further when the independent stations abandoned it. It was always unfair that RTE were spending licence payers money on something that only licence payers based in 3 cities could use, add in the fact that your average Joe posts here wondering why they can't get BBC radio 2 on dab on South kerry, this is a long overdue sensible thing for RTE to do but of course people still complain.

AwaitYourReply · 07-11-2019 01:47PM

dav09 wrote: »

RTE Gold and 2XM were decent stations. Listened to 2XM mostly in my car it's a shame to see it go. I can't imagine either station costing a fortune to run, I always wondered why ads aren't operated on the DAB network and if that would help towards sustainability.

DAB is a strange one, for many countries in Europe, FM is being turned off, making us one of the few countries to backtrack on DAB roll-out. The licencing situation around it has been appalling and it's crazy to see that we now have a national pirate DAB multiplex (FreeDAB) due to this. Even if it's been slow, it does seem to be the general direction things are moving in: https://www.techuk.org/insights/news/item/14327-the-eu-parliament-backs-the-mandating-of-digital-radio-in-cars

I hope RTE take good consideration to reverse this as it may cost in the long run, if FM had to go down the line (under EU rules/ bandwidth reasons/ etc). But it's doubtful and an awful shame.

I don't think RTÉ had any final say in advertising on those stations that have no commercial breaks. I understand that RTÉ was not permitted to generate revenue from advertising due to the private sector objecting that it would be detrimental to other TV/Radio channels from the commercial independent sector.

Same applies to RTÉ News Now and RTÉjr kids channels as I think no advertising was allowed on these channels since they first launched as otherwise they would not have been permitted.

RTÉ were also limited in the number of minutes allowed for advertising on those stations that currently carry advertising even if the business was there although; the advertising climate is said to be pretty tough for all involved on traditional TV/Radio channels for quite a while for a whole host of reasons.

webwayz · 07-11-2019 03:08PM

DAB needs or needed more potential devices, sure most modern cars have DAB and FM.
It would be great if DAB was on mobile phones, but mobile companies sell bandwitdh so no incentive for them to promote DAB on handsets. Why if I have a wifi do i need DAB can i not just listen to internet radio or streaming services. While I have DAB in the car and DAB stations available on Saorview TV recievers are the ways I would have listened to the DAB services.

Declan A Walsh · 07-11-2019 03:13PM

webwayz wrote: »

DAB needs or needed more potential devices, sure most modern cars have DAB and FM.
It would be great if DAB was on mobile phones, but mobile companies sell bandwitdh so no incentive for them to promote DAB on handsets. Why if I have a wifi do i need DAB can i not just listen to internet radio or streaming services. While I have DAB in the car and DAB stations available on Saorview TV recievers are the ways I would have listened to the DAB services.

I just listen very occasionally to digital stations on the Virgin Media platform as I do not have DAB Radio - the 900s. There's even less reason for me to select those channels now, unless I want to listen to BBC6, which I keep forgetting about, or they add more stations on the selection (highly unlikely).

ghostdancer · 07-11-2019 03:26PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

10 percent pay cut to the top brass, 15 percent to top on air presenters. 200 Jobs cut, RTE Guide to be sold off. And the most surprising to me-Aertel to be shut down.
I didn't even realise that was still going. I thought when RTE went digital only, that was killed off in 2012. That must have been a massive money loser for it.

Apparently they're going to put more money into online content and introduce username and password login to the RTE player. (Considering how crap the RTE website is-I'd see this as a loss making decision).

I doubt Aertel is a massive money loser for them, I'd imagine it costs extremely little.

As for the username and password, I'd imagine this will be linked to your TV licence, as the BBC iPlayer now is, so that if you don't pay your tv licence, you won't be able to access the RTE player.
At present, anyone can, so introducing a check will probably save them money on bandwidth. Might also improve the service for big events.

loyatemu · 07-11-2019 03:31PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

I doubt Aertel is a massive money loser for them, I'd imagine it costs extremely little.

As for the username and password, I'd imagine this will be linked to your TV licence, as the BBC iPlayer now is, so that if you don't pay your tv licence, you won't be able to access the RTE player.
At present, anyone can, so introducing a check will probably save them money on bandwidth. Might also improve the service for big events.

the iPlayer is not linked to your license - they ask if you have one, but there's no verification.

AwaitYourReply · 07-11-2019 03:36PM

loyatemu wrote: »

the iPlayer is not linked to your license - they ask if you have one, but there's no verification.

I think it will ask the user to confirm their TV Licence Number if it detects if that the person may not be UK based.
(A VPN username/password will no longer allow access to BBC iPlayer if the person is not a UK TV Licence holder based outside the UK)

plodder · 07-11-2019 03:41PM

I listen to 2XM as well and will be sorry to see it go. DAB though was a typically half-baked experiment here. Can't say I've any reason to miss that.

I listen to it in my car, which I bought up North and the dealer helpfully set it up for me. Almost complete coverage and all channels. No reason to switch back to FM ... until I crossed the border.

Sleeper12 · 07-11-2019 03:49PM

My van has DAB radio but it's useless driving around Dublin as the signal comes & goes. I used to listen to it on a little Sony DAB radio in my home and the signal wasn't too bad.

I loved the idea of DAB but RTE only half heartedly got behind it in my opinion. It always felt like an experiment rather than 100 percent commitment imo

webwayz · 07-11-2019 04:29PM

DAB was half baked but they paid a high price for it.
Similarly I listen to it in the car and great on the open roads outside dublin but wavers inside the M50
Aertel can not be that much money, it does the 888 subtitles very well, and stuff like flight information, and match day scores for those without an internet device handy. How much does it cost to run Aertel? surely the text content from the RTE Website can be tailored for it without much extra cost and hassle. I am sure not that much and not that much bandwidth used up either.
I am sure with BritBox just being launched there are those in RTE looking for a project like an AerBox... sin sceal eile..
Cut the top celebs salaries, sell donnybrook (I am sure the government would look at it for a Direct Provision Centre or Halting site.....;) ) and move to a cheaper location say off the M50

lertsnim · 07-11-2019 04:32PM

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

I think it will ask the user to confirm their TV Licence Number if it detects if that the person may not be UK based.
(A VPN username/password will no longer allow access to BBC iPlayer if the person is not a UK TV Licence holder based outside the UK)

If you are outside the UK it will not work at all unless a VPN is used and in that case it acts the exact same as if you were in the UK. No UK television licence is required.

AwaitYourReply · 07-11-2019 05:01PM

lertsnim wrote: »

If you are outside the UK it will not work at all unless a VPN is used and in that case it acts the exact same as if you were in the UK. No UK television licence is required.

Oh I understand the function of a VPN and how it is used. I know someone who would often go to the BBC iPlayer by inputting a VPN username & password suggesting they were UK based even though they were actually located outside of the UK. Then around the same time that BBC THREE linear tv channel switched to Online access only, things also changed regarding access to the BBC iPlayer as a VPN for UK was no longer sufficient to access BBC iPlayer as it would request TV Licence details which was not always the case. Has all this changed again?

AwaitYourReply · 07-11-2019 05:10PM

webwayz wrote: »

DAB was half baked but they paid a high price for it.
Similarly I listen to it in the car and great on the open roads outside dublin but wavers inside the M50
Aertel can not be that much money, it does the 888 subtitles very well, and stuff like flight information, and match day scores for those without an internet device handy. How much does it cost to run Aertel? surely the text content from the RTE Website can be tailored for it without much extra cost and hassle. I am sure not that much and not that much bandwidth used up either.
I am sure with BritBox just being launched there are those in RTE looking for a project like an AerBox... sin sceal eile..
Cut the top celebs salaries, sell donnybrook (I am sure the government would look at it for a Direct Provision Centre or Halting site.....;) ) and move to a cheaper location say off the M50

RTÉ needs to address the things it can control first before making demands from the government (i.e.) taxpayers. It needs to return to core values and how they relate to a changing media landscape and question, modify and if necessary remove anything no longer fit for the RTÉ of today. Top earners still overpaid, some need to retire/change role, Donnybrook should all be sold like you said, they should operate leaner and meaner from a cheaper site.

lertsnim · 07-11-2019 08:29PM

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

Oh I understand the function of a VPN and how it is used. I know someone who would often go to the BBC iPlayer by inputting a VPN username & password suggesting they were UK based even though they were actually located outside of the UK. Then around the same time that BBC THREE linear tv channel switched to Online access only, things also changed regarding access to the BBC iPlayer as a VPN for UK was no longer sufficient to access BBC iPlayer as it would request TV Licence details which was not always the case. Has all this changed again?

I use the iPlayer regularly and never have I had to input licence details. I'm only ever asked if I have a licence or not.

Sleeper12 · 07-11-2019 08:49PM

lertsnim wrote:

I use the iPlayer regularly and never have I had to input licence details. I'm only ever asked if I have a licence or not.

I don't use it often but agree they only ask if you have a licence

Ursus Horribilis · 07-11-2019 10:35PM

lertsnim wrote: »

I use the iPlayer regularly and never have I had to input licence details. I'm only ever asked if I have a licence or not.

I certainly hope they don't plan to start asking for the details :eek:

end of the road · 07-11-2019 11:09PM

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

DAB was always going to be a hard sell. When TV went digital, there was an obvious upgrade. What does DAB do that FM doesn't? We never got to see this much vaunted extra choice. Some of the stations broadcast in a frequency that sounded utterly shyte to my ears anyway. Unless someone lives in an area with no broadband, they can access their music elsewhere.

extra choice, the incentive and need to liberalize the market and allow stations to operate to a business model that suits them, rather then the high cost one forced upon them from the BAI and current broadcasting laws.
if the rte muxes are using standard dab then that is crap as it is mp2 and it would need to be at a hugely high bitrate to be listenable.
dab+ on the other hand gives reasonable quality at low bitrates as long as all the processing is tweaked accordingly.

Zird wrote: »

In reality the only people listening to RTE Gold are anoraks and friends/family of the DJs. You're available John & Mary have never even heard of it.

can you provide a source for that claim? the first part of it anyway, the second i'm not so bothered about.
even if it is accurate, listeners are listeners and listeners listening are listeners listening.

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

It's the independent sector's fault that DAB hasn't so far been a success here, as the BAI have had their finger up their ar$e about it, as the IBI stations have indicated their distaste for any competition that other services would bring.

The only way DAB would work (and I think it would, and should work) is if it provides extra services from more niche broadcasters not owned or controlled by the big boys.

It's a retrograde step by RTE to close it, although maybe 2rn might now offer the muxes for rental to other companies.

If they do though, no doubt the cost would be too high for independent ops, and it'd be Communicorp and Newsgroup who'd run them.

Which would be a pity.

There are other, far more unworthy, areas of expenditure that RTE could dispose of, like Lyric, 2FM, and orchestras. Oh, and sell Montrose and move to somewhere smaller and cheaper.

i would agree with 90% of your post but lyric does meet a public service remit, and rte moving to somewhere smaller and cheaper wouldn't actually be cheaper or cost effective in the end once they get everything set up i would imagine.

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

Licensing FreeDAB or other small-scale mux ops is a different thing. Of course that should happen, but the IBI stations have told the BAI they don't want the competition that would bring, so the BAI won't do it.

It's the DAB muxes that RTE have been using (probably owned by 2rn) that interest me.

I bet 2rn will offer the network to the likes of Communicorp.

which is why we need to bring in new people into the BAI who actually would be willing to tell the IBI stations where to go.
the IBI members are entitled to not want to broadcast on dab if they want, but they are not, and should not, be able or entitled to stop others from doing so.

Zird wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me the reaction that every story, regardless of what is, about RTE gets on boards. we are not the only country to abandon DAB, Finland, Singapore, Hong Kong & Canada have done the same. Dab is a busted flush in this country, it has been clear since 2008 that it was never going to be rolled out any further when the independent stations abandoned it. It was always unfair that RTE were spending licence payers money on something that only licence payers based in 3 cities could use, add in the fact that your average Joe posts here wondering why they can't get BBC radio 2 on dab on South kerry, this is a long overdue sensible thing for RTE to do but of course people still complain.

4 countries abandoning dab means nothing really, more countries are modernising then those who aren't.
those who want modernisation in this country will be going nowhere.

ford fiesta · 07-11-2019 11:11PM

Why cant RTE keep the Digital services on web, smartphone and saorview, and get rid of the "DAB" platform...if that is the reason it is so expensive?

L1011 · 07-11-2019 11:13PM

Kite flying. Just like with Lyric, they know Gold is popular.

Get enough people pissed off about potential cuts and a licence fee increase will go down a bit easier. It is 11 years, albeit 11 quite fraught years financially, since the last hike.

KReid · 07-11-2019 11:56PM

Rte have been pushing the fact that the license fee hasn't been raised in 11 years. They've also lost nearly half their commercial revenue in those 11 years, no organisation should be allowed to sit around and make such losses. After these changes have started to take effect and Rte provides a clearer road map of how they plan to operate as a Media Organisation in the 21st century, then there should be a review into the license fee, covering all kinds of media and consumption methods. They should be careful though, Rte feel entitled to that money, they need to understand that any changes to the license fee could see that money shared with independent broadcasters.

On the DAB factor. We're a fairly small country, FM works perfectly fine, the future is more so on Web. DAB should be pulled for the time being, work out a national plan for it and then brought back if its necessary, but honestly it's nothing compared to what Web based streaming would offer.

AwaitYourReply · 08-11-2019 01:07AM

lertsnim wrote: »

I use the iPlayer regularly and never have I had to input licence details. I'm only ever asked if I have a licence or not.

Ok, I need to look all this once again as I found myself being asked for TV Licence details when I checked some time ago and this was not always the case. I had heard in the British media that the BBC were stopping unauthorised access by stopping those who did not have a UK TV Licence.

rogue-entity · 08-11-2019 01:13AM

Zird wrote: »

These cuts are actually very sensible, Dab is a waste of time now as it's 15 years too late.

With an attitude like that, we might as well still be broadcasting Analogue PAL on VHF and listening to AM radio.

Tenshot wrote: »

Very sad to hear DAB is going; I got a DAB radio when I upgraded my car last year and I've been listening to it almost exclusively ever since.

The sound quality is very noticeably better than FM, and I really enjoyed the additional stations (Gold, Extra, +1). I'd love to know exactly how much they will save by shutting it down.

That makes two of us, when you grow up in an area that's painfully under-served it made a breath of fresh air on commutes to Dublin and the like, elsewhere it was bluetooth + phone. Sad fact is the commercial stations by and large don't serve my interests, the licencing regime doesn't allow anyone else to get into the market and RTE were the only ones that could do DAB

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

It's the independent sector's fault that DAB hasn't so far been a success here, as the BAI have had their finger up their ar$e about it, as the IBI stations have indicated their distaste for any competition that other services would bring.

Its the truth, but how many people care enough to complain about it?

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

It's a retrograde step by RTE to close it, although maybe 2rn might now offer the muxes for rental to other companies.

If they do though, no doubt the cost would be too high for independent ops, and it'd be Communicorp and Newsgroup who'd run them.

Agreed but I don't see 2RN renting the equipment to anyone, either it will be scrapped or sit there forgotten about because noone else can enter the market without the BAI's blessing and we know that won't happen.

I also suspect you're correct on it being priced too high for anyone to get in on it, which is a shame because a DAB transmitter doesn't cost substantially more than an FM transmitter, and isn't any more expensive to run than a Digital TV transmitter either.

webwayz wrote: »

2RN should be the sole manager of DAB and DTT, and have additional services.

That's exactly the opposite of what should happen, that's how they ended up in the absurd situation in the UK where one private company operates the transmission gear and the price that was charged to any station wishing to go on DAB was eye-watering

Zird wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me the reaction that every story, regardless of what is, about RTE gets on boards. we are not the only country to abandon DAB, Finland, Singapore, Hong Kong & Canada have done the same. Dab is a busted flush in this country, it has been clear since 2008 that it was never going to be rolled out any further when the independent stations abandoned it. It was always unfair that RTE were spending licence payers money on something that only licence payers based in 3 cities could use, add in the fact that your average Joe posts here wondering why they can't get BBC radio 2 on dab on South kerry, this is a long overdue sensible thing for RTE to do but of course people still complain.

People still complain, not just because a transmission system that carries stations they want to listen to is being closed down, but because the digital stations themselves are also closing so you can't just tell someone to stream it on their phone.

Radio is more than just a non-stop jukebox, for that folks have alternatives; Radio is a human medium, the presenter and the content are what make good radio and why I tune in to stations like Radio 1Extra and will sorely miss it - I am damn well going to complain about having that taken away from me due to myopic thinking on the part of RTE.

If they want to save some cash, shut down that waste of bandwidth that is 2FM and stop wasting taxpayers money competing with the iRadios, Spins and Beats.

Lovenova · 08-11-2019 05:15PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well it shouldn't be up to RTE to run DAB but as they do it's weird that they'll look to save a small amount here while leaving 2FM untouched (bar a few salaries cut) and keeping all the orchestras. Though I suppose the answer here is that DAB has no "friends" the orchestras do

Don’t think RTÉ ever wanted to run but were cajoled into it . Population wise DAB reaches about 50% in Ireland . It’s services are also available on line

lengon · 08-11-2019 07:47PM

It's the multiplex operators who fix the charges and for example London has three so there is competition:all told London has around 100 stations and many other areas around 60 and added to the mix in the near future will be many more low cost small scale multiplexes providing hundreds more stations. So while the system is by no means perfect it does seem to work.

Ursus Horribilis · 09-11-2019 01:08AM

Even if DAB ever worked properly here, I doubt we'd ever have had anywhere near that number of stations. Even with the smaller population.

09-11-2019 01:36AM

rogue-entity wrote: »

With an attitude like that, we might as well still be broadcasting Analogue PAL on VHF and listening to AM radio.

Don't be that harsh on analogue PAL, because the current standard definition picture on Saorview is actually of a worse quality.

AwaitYourReply · 09-11-2019 02:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't be that harsh on analogue PAL, because the current standard definition picture on Saorview is actually of a worse quality.

I would have to share your viewpoint.
I find the high definition picture on channels on SkyHD digital satellite platform has deteriorated over time as carriers try to squeeze more channels on to transponders to save on cost but the quality is not as clear & crisp as we were led to believe all those years ago. The same will probably happen with Ultra High Definition (UHD) 4K in the years ahead.

In fact, the HD reception on my RTÉ One and RTÉ 2 is a far superior picture via Saorview as opposed to Sky HD in my experience.

RTÉ to cease DAB broadcasting

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