Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

splinter65 wrote: »

The past was terrible but this is equally terrible. And you have our current government telling us how lucky we are to live in modern progressive loving compassionate Ireland when it’s an even bigger **** hole now then it ever was

Homelessness is shocking as are so many working people looking for accommodation.

Hal3000 wrote: »

Yes and our schools keep saying their is little they can do about bullying. That line will should go down in the Irish history annals “we couldn’t do anything “ . If you put your kid in a school that says they can do nothing about bullying, REMOVE them...

A bullying database would be helpful, it should be mandatory for schools to report and record bullying incidents. If parents could see that data they would think twice about where they would send their kids, and schools with bad reps might start taking action. Or else this will continue and accountability one again in Ireland goes out the window.

I can see where you’re coming from, but that might not always be an option. Neither is there any guarantee that the next school will be better. There simply isn’t sufficient interest, amongst the general population, to ensure that this area is tackled, once and for all.

It is now 14 years since I was involved with a secondary school, so my personal knowledge is dated. In my experience, only severe bullying behaviour was raised at board of management level. Here, it was extremely difficult to create any meaningful sanction against ringleaders and teachers and staff were in a very tough situation.

A lasting tribute to Ana would be to demand that schools are safe environments for everyone. Bullying should be an item on the agenda at every Parents Council and Board of Management meeting. It should be part of whole school evaluations and tracked at school, region and national level. Even minor instances of bullying should not be tolerated, avoiding any possible escalation.

mrjoneill wrote: »

Homelessness is shocking as are so many working people looking for accommodation.

The health service is shocking and disimproving every day.

NewClareman wrote: »

Those who allowed them access to unsuitable material, at a young age. Those who allowed bullying behaviour to continually escalate...

Oh poor them. Thats what made them murderers.
Idiot

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The system you describe is largely in place in the current national anti bullying program. All schools have to implement it. Add to that child protection reporting and there is a nationally applicable program there. It is obviously failing. There needs to be a serious look taken at it. Why isn’t it effective?

Because the whole system is built so that authorities and schools can say that there is a system in place. It is not a serious attempt to eliminate or reduce bullying. That would take unpalatable actions which will never happen.

tupenny wrote: »

Oh poor them. Thats what made them murderers.
Idiot

Is the word 'idiot' anathema now?

Why was this post carded?

NewClareman wrote: »

I can see where you’re coming from, but that might not always be an option. Neither is there any guarantee that the next school will be better. There simply isn’t sufficient interest, amongst the general population, to ensure that this area is tackled, once and for all.

It is now 14 years since I was involved with a secondary school, so my personal knowledge is dated. In my experience, only severe bullying behaviour was raised at board of management level. Here, it was extremely difficult to create any meaningful sanction against ringleaders and teachers and staff were in a very tough situation.

A lasting tribute to Ana would be to demand that schools are safe environments for everyone. Bullying should be an item on the agenda at every Parents Council and Board of Management meeting. It should be part of whole school evaluations and tracked at school, region and national level. Even minor instances of bullying should not be tolerated, avoiding any possible escalation.

Absolutely bullying has to be top of the agenda in school staff meetings and following through with BoM. The advent of social media has made that imperative as it can be now 24/7. Having immediate sanction where such is established need prioritizing. School bullying does not only apply to schoolkids but teachers have suffered too. I have heard teachers tell of snide "under the breath" remarks being made of "******" & other disparaging remarks to pregnant teachers. I know of a teacher who left the profession over constant snide remarks to a presumption of his sexuality. I have heard female teachers tell of being put in fear of being sexually assaulted. And the bullying does not necessitate direct attacks but insidious in setting up fake profiles on sex cruising sites with the picture of the victim with attached sexual explicit pictures pretending they are of the victim. In one case recently before the courts a whole class of schoolgirls were put on a sex cruising site with their faces and fake sexual images.



The education system needs to look at itself again on being more proactive, sending a clear message that bullies wont be tolerated and schools getting the powers to deal effectively with them. There needs to be closer contact with teachers and student in having a class teacher, and a hierarchy of year teacher etc so there is interfaces where complaints can be made & heard informally where the issue is transient and minor before it escalates and then having a formal system in place for escalation. But for most of our schools student they want to get on with life, get an education to get the points in their leaving and go onto third level for the course of their choice. They don't want to be held back either by needless foolery.



The present sys is loaded in the students favour in appeals to the Dep of Education & judicial reviews. Perhaps a streamlining of this is necessary and the instilling into kids who are bullied the necessity to keep records, emails, screenshots, incidents-dates and times etc so that a substantial case can be presented so it can stand up when a complaint is made and if necessary to involve the Gardai in tracking down the origins of messages etc and interviewing the offenders. This present case shows the difficulties invol in dealing with what are compulsive liars & their inability to face up to the facts in which mammy's little boys are in reality monsters.



Let us hope lessons have been learnt in this very hard case.

History Queen wrote: »

Wrong. Teacher here. The whole system is built so that every child is "entitled to an education". Never mind that some children refuse to behave in a way that allows teachers to teach and others to learn. Some parents support sanctions put in place by schools, others fight us every step of the way.

It is very very difficult to expel students in spite of repeated bad behaviour such as bullying and expulsions are overturned more often than not.

I may sound defensive but surely people can see that it is not in any school's interests to allow bullying to continue? We want safe secure environments not just for our students, but also for ourselves to work in. We do our best to prevent/discourage and address bullying in the school but what are we to do about online bullying and the behaviour of students on social media? We cannot police everything. Remember we are meant to be teaching not parenting/policing.

Well if the system as it is means that it is very difficult to expel bullies then the system is worse than useless. Essentially bullies just get a slap on the wrist until after they do something extreme. In other words bullies are indirectly given consent to bully.

aslanroars wrote: »

My son is actualy starting in that school next sept.open day next wed. My son's mom said I shouldn't approach the school on bullying polices.

The school will have anti-bullying and safeguarding policies available for review on their site and at their open day.
Approaching the school on their bullying policy, without your son currently being a pupil or indeed without an "active" bullying issue at play strikes me as ironic.
In that you would be seeking confrontation with someone who no doubt has already been through the wringer regarding the lack of implementation or action of their policy in Ana's instance.

It's quite easy for any school to pay lip service to their policies, it's quite a bit more difficult for a school to acknowledge their failings and address them.
I would be very surprised if the policy was not addressed at the open night, but I fail to see what benefit it will bring you other than brownie points from some folk.

NewClareman wrote: »

Those who allowed them access to unsuitable material, at a young age. Those who allowed bullying behaviour to continually escalate...

This is the kind of thing i was speaking about earlier - some people are just bad to the bone and there is a trend these days to ignore this and make excuses for it. These 2 are scum, they were born scum and they will die scum.

The teachers certainly didn't cover themselves in glory, but in reality they can only do so much.

Their parents, i've no idea what their home lives were like but B's father is clearly a fúcking arsehole so i doubt he helped matters in any way at a bare minimum.

But ultimately practically all the responsibilty (99%+) lies with the 2 pieces of **** themselves. They are just bad people. They won't ever be anything else, and that's why they should never see the outside of a cage again.

Odhinn wrote: »

...more over heated "moral panic" hyperbole with a complete disregard for the facts.

How is it moral panic? You want us to believe that this shiny new Ireland is one of compassion equality love and forgiveness, care for the most vulnerable in our society and freedom to live your life as you choose?
Show me the evidence.

sasta le wrote: »

Shouldn’t??Why?

If I were the other parent, I'd say the same. It's aggressive and unnecessary.

Because I think it's fairly obvious that if any school can ever be effective against bullying, that is the school that is going to be on top of the problem.

If they can't put a stop to bullying at this stage, when the parents and children as well as the school, have been so closely affected, then anti bullying policies are probably just useless.

It's a useful question to put to other schools. Asking it in public at an open day at the school that was directly concerned is basically accusing them of not caring even after the fact. Because no matter what they put in place, they can't guarantee there will be zero bullying, so they are bound to feel they are being attacked over their past failure. Not a great start for incoming parents I'd have thought.

pc7 wrote: »

I would say they probably now have the best anti-bullying set up of any school

They will have good policies but unless there has been a clear out of teaching staff why believe that those policies will be implemented?