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Judgement day for Maria Bailey.

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    #92
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    is_that_so wrote: »
    What they didn't do was give any evidence what they were going to do after abolition. It just became a grubby campaign about money, allowing useless Senators to claim to have loftier ideals.

    Ah yes but when Enda lost the Seanad referendum they commissioned a report on Seanad reform.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-box-ticking-on-seanad-reform-341515.html

    The recommendations of the Manning report are gathering dust.
    Opposition leaders have accused Taoiseach Enda Kenny of not being serious about Seanad reform as they insisted he refused to discuss substantial issues at a face-to-face meeting on the future of the upper house.

    The Taoiseach was only interested in a “box-ticking” exercise, rather than exploring ways of widening the electorate and powers of the Seanad

    Now Enda or his fob turns up at the Dail to scab expenses...


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    #93
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    MadYaker wrote: »
    They will run the candidate who they think is most like to win the seat. Leo and co may say nice things about her in public but they’ll give her the boot without a second thought if think it’s necessary.



    As I've already said, they'll find it hard to give someone the boot, they've told us that the report they won't let us see, has exonerated her.

    Further to that, there's also the sticky wicket of Madigans involvement in the whole thing (perhaps even more than Madigan, as we still don't know who the "friends" with Maria on the night were)

    Madigan gave Bailey legal advice, Bailey took her solicitors advice, yet Bailey is the only one from within the Law and Order party under the microscope.

    Bailey threatened to take others with her on the Sean Sean Sean show, so if she's booted I expect to see leaks on the legal advice, and then we'll possibly see Madigan up to her neck in it too.

    The time for popcorn is almost upon us.


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    #94
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Ah yes but when Enda lost the Seanad referendum they commissioned a report on Seanad reform.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/enda-kenny-box-ticking-on-seanad-reform-341515.html

    The recommendations of the Manning report are gathering dust.



    Now Enda or his fob turns up at the Dail to scab expenses...
    As long as the Seanad is used as an ante-room for the Dail it's pointless. As for the reforms I could see voting go below that of the locals very quickly. It doesn't need to be there but there was nothing stopping them coming up with draft legislation for a future post-Seanad Oireachtas. About 50% of parliaments worldwide have one chamber.


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    #95
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    Were the other 2 Dun Laoghaire TDs from Fine Gael at the vote?
    Barret hardly went but O'Connor?


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    #96
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    is_that_so wrote: »
    As long as the Seanad is used as an ante-room for the Dail it's pointless. As for the reforms I could see voting go below that of the locals very quickly. It doesn't need to be there but there was nothing stopping them coming up with draft legislation for a future post-Seanad Oireachtas. About 50% of parliaments worldwide have one chamber.


    So what is stopping them? Where it the promisid reform of the Seanad?
    The referendum was in 2013. They have the Manning report. Is New Politics dead already?


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    #97
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    People didn't want it abolished, just reformed. They knew full well that letting FG (or any government really) run without even that minimal level of review was a bad thing.

    FG arrogance at work again.
    Reformed how?
    Reform the Seanad is like 'leave means leave' it's a pointless catchphrase for morons.

    What oversight? what review?
    What oversight did the Seanad provide when the established parties imposed a news blackout on Sinn Fein?

    Kenny said bluntly that the Seanad isn't important , that it is a useful place to stash failed politicians and that its current arrangement suits the established parties.

    He also said that any discussion on the Seanad would be a waste of Dail time because it would drag on for months.

    The people had their chance to get rid of it and didn't take that chance.



    Snow Garden wrote: »
    So what is stopping them? Where it the promisid reform of the Seanad?
    The referendum was in 2013. They have the Manning report. Is New Politics dead already?
    FG were clear that they wouldn't reform the Seanad.
    The Seanad doesn't matter and is useful for the established parties. Reform is literally a waste of time.
    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Ah yes but when Enda lost the Seanad referendum they commissioned a report on Seanad reform.
    Enda was clear from day 1 that he wouldn't reform


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    #98
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    So what is stopping them? Where it the promisid reform of the Seanad?
    The referendum was in 2013. They have the Manning report. Is New Politics dead already?
    In political terms it's really not that important. They don't they want to reform it nor does anyone else as it pretty much suits them all. FF and SF will say they do but IMO because it is gives them the other side of the argument as an out. I'd say it's been parked for another run at abolition.


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    #99
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Enda was clear from day 1 that he wouldn't reform

    Might help explain why the referendum was lost so.


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    #100
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    is_that_so wrote: »
    As long as the Seanad is used as an ante-room for the Dail it's pointless. As for the reforms I could see voting go below that of the locals very quickly. It doesn't need to be there but there was nothing stopping them coming up with draft legislation for a future post-Seanad Oireachtas. About 50% of parliaments worldwide have one chamber.

    Enda took the Seanad defeat well and then talked about reform but it was only talk.

    In 2016 he put these good people in the Seanad;

    - James O'Reilly (https://www.thejournal.ie/james-reilly-stands-over-primary-care-centre-decision-making-processes-612896-Sep2012/)

    - Michelle Mulherin (of dodgy expenses fame)

    - Paudie Coffey (Minister for Housing before 2016, that went well)

    - Marie Louise O'Donnell (Mayo woman and close friend of Enda)

    - Ray Butler (In 2019, it was reported that Butler had taken three years to repay the €30,000 severance allowance he received upon losing his Dáil seat, which became forfeit and repayable once he accepted a nomination to the Seanad)

    - Frank Feighan (Broke a pre election promise but got his reward in Seanad)


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    #101
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Enda took the Seanad defeat well and then talked about reform but it was only talk.

    In 2016 he put these good people in the Seanad;

    James O'Reilly (https://www.thejournal.ie/james-reilly-stands-over-primary-care-centre-decision-making-processes-612896-Sep2012/)

    Michelle Mulherin (of dodgy expenses fame)

    Paudie Coffey (Minister for Housing before 2016, that went well)

    Marie Louise O'Donnell (Mayo woman and close friend of Enda)

    Ray Butler (In 2019, it was reported that Butler had taken three years to repay the €30,000 severance allowance he received upon losing his Dáil seat, which became forfeit and repayable once he accepted a nomination to the Seanad)

    Frank Feighan (Broke a pre election promise but got his reward in Seanad)
    Take in a session sometime. I think it pops up on Oireachtas TV. The standard of debate is stultifying. Add any party you want to that list; that's what the Seanad is for.


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    #102
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    He said that the people could abolish it but he wouldn't reform it and that if the Seanad was kept he would do nothing about it and that it would be at least twenty years before anyone else did.




    Snow Garden wrote: »
    Enda took the Seanad defeat well and then talked about reform but it was only talk.

    In 2016 he put these good people in the Seanad;

    - James O'Reilly (https://www.thejournal.ie/james-reilly-stands-over-primary-care-centre-decision-making-processes-612896-Sep2012/)

    - Michelle Mulherin (of dodgy expenses fame)

    - Paudie Coffey (Minister for Housing before 2016, that went well)

    - Marie Louise O'Donnell (Mayo woman and close friend of Enda)

    - Ray Butler (In 2019, it was reported that Butler had taken three years to repay the €30,000 severance allowance he received upon losing his Dáil seat, which became forfeit and repayable once he accepted a nomination to the Seanad)

    - Frank Feighan (Broke a pre election promise but got his reward in Seanad)


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    #103
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Might help explain why the referendum was lost so.
    How so?


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    #104
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    MadYaker wrote: »
    They will run the candidate who they think is most like to win the seat. Leo and co may say nice things about her in public but they’ll give her the boot without a second thought if think it’s necessary.

    Boot out a candidate that their own secret inquiry exonerated?.


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    #105
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Might help explain why the referendum was lost so.
    And that the cost and "uselessness" was enough. Voters may not love it but it has more of a hint of democracy than it's expensive and we can promise we'll get round to better committees. It was mini-version of Brexit, an unexpected result with no plan behind it!


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    #106
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    How so?

    I thought it was blindingly obvious, but anyway - voters obviously didn't want it gone, reformation would have been a fairly obvious flip side choice, but in typical arrogance by the then govt, they were told it was their way or the highway.

    Enda got his own fairly decent number of controversial headlines surrounding the same Seanad he wanted to abolish.


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    #107
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    I thought it was blindingly obvious, but anyway - voters obviously didn't want it gone, reformation would have been a fairly obvious flip side choice, but in typical arrogance by the then govt, they were told it was their way or the highway.

    Enda got his own fairly decent number of controversial headlines surrounding the same Seanad he wanted to abolish.


    So did how Kenny's lack of interest in reforming the Seanad contribute to its retention?


    Reform wasn't an option.


    Try to answer the question you are asked or else be silent!


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    #108
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    FG were clear that they wouldn't reform the Seanad.

    In December 2014, then Taoiseach Enda Kenny set up an independent working group on Seanad reform chaired by former senator Dr Maurice Manning. This group published a comprehensive report in 2015, which the current government has committed to implement.

    In any event if Bailey ends up in the Seanad it will be another cynical move by Fine Gael.


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    #109
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Anyone is entitled to feel that the accident they had was someone else’s fault.
    Yes in doing that you may well be marking yourself out as a blundering idiot but that’s ok just take yourself to court and present your version of the FACTS and whoever you are blaming present their version of the FACTS let the judge make up his/her mind.
    But Bailey knew the facts in her case didn’t stack up so she decided to lie instead.
    Saying that she lied under advice from her legal team makes it worse.


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    #110
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    So did how Kenny's lack of interest in reforming the Seanad contribute to its retention?


    Reform wasn't an option.

    I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, or genuinely just havent read what I clearly wrote - the people didn't want it abolished, that is clear from the referendum result. Enda said he didn't intend to reform it, fair enough, but that would probably explain why he lost the referendum - this has been explained to you numerous times already, and am a bit peeved at having to type it out again.
    Try to answer the question you are asked or else be silent!

    Just because you didn't like the answer you were given, doesn't mean it wasn't answered, it was.

    Are you assuming the role of a moderator now btw?


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    #111
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, or genuinely just havent read what I clearly wrote - the people didn't want it abolished, that is clear from the referendum result. Enda said he didn't intend to reform it, fair enough, but that would probably explain why he lost the referendum - this has been explained to you numerous times already, and am a bit peeved at having to type it out again.



    Just because you didn't like the answer you were given, doesn't mean it wasn't answered, it was.

    Are you assuming the role of a moderator now btw?
    It was a referendum on abolition not a referendum on reform.


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    #112
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    In December 2014, then Taoiseach Enda Kenny set up an independent working group on Seanad reform chaired by former senator Dr Maurice Manning. This group published a comprehensive report in 2015, which the current government has committed to implement.

    In any event if Bailey ends up in the Seanad it will be another cynical move by Fine Gael.


    The referendum was in 2013. 2013 is before 2014.


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    #113
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    The referendum was in 2013. 2013 is before 2014.

    You made the mistake. You said FG and Enda never promised to reform the Seanad. They did so after the abolition referendum.

    After the referendum FG/Enda said exactly that and asked Manning to report on potential reforms. He gave them 30 recommendations.

    So why didn't he implement any of the Manning report? Was it just a cynical ploy to kick the can down the road? New Politics evaporated?


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    #114
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Anyone is entitled to feel that the accident they had was someone else’s fault.
    Yes in doing that you may well be marking yourself out as a blundering idiot but that’s ok just take yourself to court and present your version of the FACTS and whoever you are blaming present their version of the FACTS let the judge make up his/her mind.
    But Bailey knew the facts in her case didn’t stack up so she decided to lie instead.
    Saying that she lied under advice from her legal team makes it worse.

    Madigan has gone oh so quiet lately. I bet she is nervous...


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    #115
    Sultan of Bling
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭Sultan of Bling


    seligehgit wrote:
    That is a truly disgusting comment.

    votecounts wrote:
    I wouldn't be her biggest fan but that is a sick comment to make

    Businesses closing, jobs being lost, all because of con artists like her.

    Never mind claiming Dail expenses she wasn't entitled to.

    Maybe some of the poor people who have lost jobs were going through bereavement at the time.

    The only disgusting thing round here is that piece of filth.


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    #116
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    You made the mistake. You said FG and Enda never promised to reform the Seanad. They did so after the abolition referendum.

    After the referendum FG/Enda said exactly that and asked Manning to report on potential reforms. He gave them 30 recommendations.

    So why didn't he implement any of the Manning report? Was it just a cynical ploy to kick the can down the road? New Politics evaporated?


    You're not even wrong.


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    #117
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,298 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    True, but she got legal advice, and so I go back to my doctor analogy.

    220px-Josepha_Madigan.jpg

    Meanwhile her supporters say

    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1190025239402622977?s=19

    So her supporters would not have any problem with dubious claims themselves? That speaks volume's about their honesty and integrity..... just corruption layered on corruption. They are part of the problem.


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    #118
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Before this thread is diverted to discuss Endas incompetence at losing the Seanad referendum, maybe we could start discussing the uncomfortable situation the FG party find themselves in on this one.

    Leo might try and put this on Paschal's lap, making him the poor lad who will ultimately have to make the unsavoury choice of how to solve a problem like Maria.

    Lots of banana skins with it though, Madigan isn't untainted by the whole affair either, and Leo has been caught off guard by the local member's of his party, who obviously don't believe the mumbo jumbo he spouted about what the report contained in relation to Bailey and Madigan.

    Do they get shot of her, and leave themselves open to Bailey and a cat getting out of a bag?

    Leave her on the ticket, and the whole election campaign be overshadowed by insurance fraud report's in the media, and name dropping bailey in them.

    Will the report be leaked?
    Will bailey reveal Madigans legal advice?
    Will the opposition or press obtain a leaked CCTV clip of Bailey and "friends" misusing the swings in the Dean?

    My own thoughts are that there's possibly enough distance between now and the next election for a deal to be struck between bailey and the party for her to quietly saunter off with a nice package, "there's a good girl Maria, you ran a good race (no pun intended) but it's time to fcuk off now" ringing in her ear. €€€

    1st of November, still far from over. Woefully handed by Leo, Enda might have been incompetent at times, but he knew how to deal with slackers and dissenters, he'd have nipped this in the bud over a wet weekend, I'll give him that much, and he didn't need no multi million euro spin machine or advisers telling him how to either.


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    #119
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Before this thread is diverted to discuss Endas incompetence at losing the Seanad referendum, maybe we could start discussing the uncomfortable situation the FG party find themselves in on this one.

    Leo might try and put this on Paschal's lap, making him the poor lad who will ultimately have to make the unsavoury choice of how to solve a problem like Maria.

    Lots of banana skins with it though, Madigan isn't untainted by the whole affair either, and Leo has been caught off guard by the local member's of his party, who obviously don't believe the mumbo jumbo he spouted about what the report contained in relation to Bailey and Madigan.

    Do they get shot of her, and leave themselves open to Bailey and a cat getting out of a bag?

    Leave her on the ticket, and the whole election campaign be overshadowed by insurance fraud report's in the media, and name dropping bailey in them.

    Will the report be leaked?
    Will bailey reveal Madigans legal advice?
    Will the opposition or press obtain a leaked CCTV clip of Bailey and "friends" misusing the swings in the Dean?

    My own thoughts are that there's possibly enough distance between now and the next election for a deal to be struck between bailey and the party for her to quietly saunter off with a nice package, "there's a good girl Maria, you ran a good race (no pun intended) but it's time to fcuk off now" ringing in her ear. €€€

    1st of November, still far from over. Woefully handed by Leo, Enda might have been incompetent at times, but he knew how to deal with slackers and dissenters, he'd have nipped this in the bud over a wet weekend, I'll give him that much, and he didn't need no multi million euro spin machine or advisers telling him how to either.

    Yeah no matter when they schedule the election for in Q1/Q2 2020, Maria Bailey and Madigan will be in the news.
    Insurance fraud and Expense fraud will be a hot topic in all the interviews and debates.


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    #120
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,298 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Before this thread is diverted to discuss Endas incompetence at losing the Seanad referendum, maybe we could start discussing the uncomfortable situation the FG party find themselves in on this one.

    Leo might try and put this on Paschal's lap, making him the poor lad who will ultimately have to make the unsavoury choice of how to solve a problem like Maria.

    Lots of banana skins with it though, Madigan isn't untainted by the whole affair either, and Leo has been caught off guard by the local member's of his party, who obviously don't believe the mumbo jumbo he spouted about what the report contained in relation to Bailey and Madigan.

    Do they get shot of her, and leave themselves open to Bailey and a cat getting out of a bag?

    Leave her on the ticket, and the whole election campaign be overshadowed by insurance fraud report's in the media, and name dropping bailey in them.

    Will the report be leaked?
    Will bailey reveal Madigans legal advice?
    Will the opposition or press obtain a leaked CCTV clip of Bailey and "friends" misusing the swings in the Dean?

    My own thoughts are that there's possibly enough distance between now and the next election for a deal to be struck between bailey and the party for her to quietly saunter off with a nice package, "there's a good girl Maria, you ran a good race (no pun intended) but it's time to fcuk off now" ringing in her ear. €€€

    1st of November, still far from over. Woefully handed by Leo, Enda might have been incompetent at times, but he knew how to deal with slackers and dissenters, he'd have nipped this in the bud over a wet weekend, I'll give him that much, and he didn't need no multi million euro spin machine or advisers telling him how to either.

    No matter what "solution" they find for the Bailey problem.....the whole FG party is tainted now. And come election time, you think that it will be forgotten? Every week, business's are closing down, with a Govt that seem's incapable of fixing the problem? I don't think so. Down the road, when they are writing FG political history, the Bailey case will get more than a mention, for sure.


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    #121
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    jmreire wrote: »
    No matter what "solution" they find for the Bailey problem.....the whole FG party is tainted now. And come election time, you think that it will be forgotten? Every week, business's are closing down, with a Govt that seem's incapable of fixing the problem? I don't think so. Down the road, when they are writing FG political history, the Bailey case will get more than a mention, for sure.


    They should have taken the whip away from her immediately, put Madigan off the front bench, forced Madigan to make a 'maxima culpa' and used the opportunity to bring in false claim criminalisation.


    The FG selling point is supposed to be (all evidence to the contrary) that they are more honest than FF.


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