DCM won by convicted drug cheat

OOnegative · 27-10-2019 7:56pm #1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othmane_El_Goumri

Surprised this issue hasn’t been raised since he won, rather not see the likes of him winning our National marathon. He surely was an elite entry, can the organisers refuse him entry given his past?

6run28 · 27-10-2019 8:00pm

Very sad to see this - 2 years is a joke

TFBubendorfer · 27-10-2019 8:39pm

OOnegative wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othmane_El_Goumri

Surprised this issue hasn’t been raised since he won, rather not see the likes of him winning our National marathon. He surely was an elite entry, can the organisers refuse him entry given his past?

Of course they can refuse him, and they should have done so this year as well! Very disappointed by DCM to let someone like that run. :mad:

normanoffside · 27-10-2019 8:57pm

Jim Aughney said the race has a 'no cheat' policy but he hadn't realised before it was too late.

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/1188422223536803840

Murph_D · 27-10-2019 9:01pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Jim Aughney said the race has a 'no cheat' policy but he hadn't realised before it was too late.

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/1188422223536803840

What a joke. You would have thought a midmarket marathon like ours would be really careful about this kind is thing. :rolleyes:

OOnegative · 27-10-2019 9:10pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/jim-aughney-disappointed-at-martin-fagans-no-show-328956.html

normanoffside wrote: »

Jim Aughney said the race has a 'no cheat' policy but he hadn't realised before it was too late.

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/1188422223536803840

Jim is a bit of a hypocrite!!!

ted1 · 27-10-2019 9:54pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Of course they can refuse him, and they should have done so this year as well! Very disappointed by DCM to let someone like that run. :mad:

Was he invited and was he is expenses paid for ?

Lazare · 27-10-2019 10:35pm

ted1 wrote: »

Was he invited and was he is expenses paid for ?

DCM don't pay appearance money or expenses. Jim Aughney is a reg at my parkrun, was chatting to him about it a few weeks ago. Athletes view Dublin as a stepping stone, a win at Dublin gets them paid invites to majors.

Limpy · 27-10-2019 10:39pm

Embarrassing really. They should of refunded his flight, instead they have to hand him over the prize money.

OOnegative · 27-10-2019 10:39pm

Lazare wrote: »

DCM don't pay appearance money or expenses. Jim Aughney is a reg at my parkrun, was chatting to him about it a few weeks ago. Athletes view Dublin as a stepping stone, a win at Dublin gets them paid invites to majors.

Not having a go at you C obviously, but if the man knew he should have said on your bike pal knowing the winners past. It’s poor form they knew supposedly two weeks out yet let this guy run & win convincingly. Not what the Dublin marathon is about nor what you like to see winning either.

Steve · 27-10-2019 10:58pm

Mod note:
As this is currently on the front page of the site, I would urge any discussion be backed up from reputable news sources.

I'm not disputing any claims, and I personally know those posting here and do not doubt them, just doing my job as moderator.

OOnegative · 27-10-2019 11:04pm

Steve wrote: »

Mod note:
As this is currently on the front page of the site, I would urge any discussion be backed up from reputable news sources.

I'm mot disputing any claims, and I personally know those posting here and do not doubt them, just doing my job as moderator.

I’ll leave it there so, totally wrong this gentleman was allowed run today, organisers fcuked up big time. The excuses will come but to late now.

normanoffside · 27-10-2019 11:06pm

Steve wrote: »

Mod note:
As this is currently on the front page of the site, I would urge any discussion be backed up from reputable news sources.

I'm mot disputing any claims, and I personally know those posting here and do not doubt them, just doing my job as moderator.

The DCM winner was just back from a 2 year ban for doping.Even he in his post race interviews doesn't dispute that
Sayimg he is now clean.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1044835/six-moroccan-athletes-plus-ex-team-gb-abeyie-in-iaafs-latest-doping-sanction-list

normanoffside · 27-10-2019 11:09pm

Steve wrote: »

Mod note:
As this is currently on the front page of the site, I would urge any discussion be backed up from reputable news sources.

I'm mot disputing any claims, and I personally know those posting here and do not doubt them, just doing my job as moderator.

He doesn't deny his ban or guilt.

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/1188449565902561280

Steve · 27-10-2019 11:25pm

I'm as disgusted as everyone else over this. The above was just to cover boards.ie

Yes, the organisers dropped the ball - totally.

And, btw, yet again, well done to all the runners today, I still couldn't run for a bus.... respect!

OOnegative · 27-10-2019 11:30pm

Steve wrote: »

And, btw, yet again, well done to all the runners today, I still couldn't run for a bus.... respect!

This is what erks me most about the winner, he couldn’t give a rats ass about Joe or Josephine Soap who gave months and months of there lives to train for today. He’s gotten his money be it forever more in tainted circumstances and that’s all he cares about.

nannerby · 27-10-2019 11:36pm

Such a shame as well because todays race was a fantastic spectacle and had so many great preformances from Irish athletes.

normanoffside · 27-10-2019 11:38pm

Steve wrote: »

I'm as disgusted as everyone else over this. The above was just to cover boards.ie

Yes, the organisers dropped the ball - totally.

And, btw, yet again, well done to all the runners today, I still couldn't run for a bus.... respect!

It should be pointed out however that Dublin Marathon is very much a volunteer led event.
It only has 1 full time employee and everyone else in contracted or voluntary, so it's harsh to judge the race by the same standards as races like London which have multiples of full time staff.

Steve · 27-10-2019 11:41pm

OOnegative wrote: »

This is what erks me most about the winner, he couldn’t give a rats ass about Joe or Josephine Soap who gave months and months of there lives to train for today. He’s gotten his money be it forever more in tainted circumstances and that’s all he cares about.

I really hope they are infested with the fleas of a thousand camels... Bar that, if they ever join here or are found out here, all I can do is mildly admonish them thanks to our snowflake overlords.:D

Steve · 27-10-2019 11:47pm

normanoffside wrote: »

It should be pointed out however that Dublin Marathon is very much a volunteer led event.
It only has 1 full time employee and everyone else in contracted or voluntary, so it's harsh to judge the race by the same standards as races like London which have multiples of full time staff.

I've volunteered and served already many times

ted1 · 27-10-2019 11:49pm

normanoffside wrote: »

It should be pointed out however that Dublin Marathon is very much a volunteer led event.
It only has 1 full time employee and everyone else in contracted or voluntary, so it's harsh to judge the race by the same standards as races like London which have multiples of full time staff.

I paid 93 euro. They didn’t have to pay 1,800 staff. It was sponsored by a large bank , Dublin City and many others. I don’t buy that excuse.

Lazare · 27-10-2019 11:55pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Not having a go at you C obviously, but if the man knew he should have said on your bike pal knowing the winners past. It’s poor form they knew supposedly two weeks out yet let this guy run & win convincingly. Not what the Dublin marathon is about nor what you like to see winning either.

To be clear, Jim was chatting to a bunch of us a couple of weeks ago about general marathon stuff, there was no talk or mention of El Goumri.

Limpy · 28-10-2019 12:02am

99% of marathons are run by people as a hobby. The 1% where most of the cheating is done are in it to make money. Take away that incentive of massive prize money and instead filter the money down to national athletes, with more for master's runner's (top 5 get prize) ect in the age group's.

Less incentive to cheat then.

Atlantic Dawn · 28-10-2019 12:03am

A marathon should never allow any convicted drug cheat to race in it, ever.

BDI · 28-10-2019 12:25am

Fella couple doors up from me ran this weekend. 60 odd. Gets injured, gets back into it runs every few years when his body will let him.

He could be a place higher for every drug cheat that doesn’t compete.

rom · 28-10-2019 1:24am

Who are drug tested in Dublin?

Ceepo · 28-10-2019 1:27am

BDI wrote: »

Fella couple doors up from me ran this weekend. 60 odd. Gets injured, gets back into it runs every few years when his body will let him.

He could be a place higher for every drug cheat that doesn’t compete.

So could Stephen Scullion. Now imagine the difference it would have made to him.

Burkie1203 · 28-10-2019 7:56am

OOnegative wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/jim-aughney-disappointed-at-martin-fagans-no-show-328956.html

Jim is a bit of a hypocrite!!!

Bullsh1t. It was a mistake and they honoured the entry and discovered they need to make a change to the contract going forward. It now makes it less likely to reoccur.

I ran my first marathon yesterday. 4hr 22. Without 1800 volunteers it doesn't happen.

OOnegative · 28-10-2019 9:10am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Bullsh1t. It was a mistake and they honoured the entry and discovered they need to make a change to the contract going forward. It now makes it less likely to reoccur.

I ran my first marathon yesterday. 4hr 22. Without 1800 volunteers it doesn't happen.

Go back and read what he said to Cathal Dennehy, they knew two weeks ago. The winner’s entry could have been easily refunded. It’s a mistake that should not have happened. And I’m well aware of the amount of volunteers involved, was one myself last year.

Burkie1203 · 28-10-2019 9:58am

OOnegative wrote: »

Go back and read what he said to Cathal Dennehy, they knew two weeks ago. The winner’s entry could have been easily refunded. It’s a mistake that should not have happened. And I’m well aware of the amount of volunteers involved, was one myself last year.

There is a contract in place. It's not as easy as just give him his costs back. If there is no clause regarding a doping ban then it's very much a legal minefield

They made a mistake, they made no excuses about it. They admitted it and have resolved to make changes to ensure it doesnt happen again. They are human. They make mistakes. Have you never made a mistake?

Esse85 · 28-10-2019 10:07am

The athlete that came second should be pretty annoyed so I'm guessing.

OOnegative · 28-10-2019 11:14am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

There is a contract in place. It's not as easy as just give him his costs back. If there is no clause regarding a doping ban then it's very much a legal minefield

They made a mistake, they made no excuses about it. They admitted it and have resolved to make changes to ensure it doesnt happen again. They are human. They make mistakes. Have you never made a mistake?

He was an elite entry, he didn’t register online like the other 17 odd thousand that finished yesterday. His credentials obviously weren’t checked properly.

As to your mistakes point, course i’ve made mistakes but the point i’m trying to make this is a mistake that should not have happened, to late for excuses now. We should be reading about an Irishman winning DCM yesterday in the papers not about some convicted drug cheat doing it.

Zebra3 · 28-10-2019 1:46pm

No guarantees that Scullion would've won it if El Goumri hadn't run.

solidasarock · 28-10-2019 3:16pm

Yeah thats some BS

"Honoring his entry" after he "slipped threw the cracks" just comes across as incompetent if not potentially corrupt on the side of the organizers.

No one would question them if they pulled his entry from the race once they seeing their mistake. Letting it slide just raises questions on their judgment.

In any case I guess we just got to see what happens in the future and hope its a once off blip.

ultrapercy · 28-10-2019 4:52pm

solidasarock wrote: »

Yeah thats some BS

"Honoring his entry" after he "slipped threw the cracks" just comes across as incompetent if not potentially corrupt on the side of the organizers.

No one would question them if they pulled his entry from the race once they seeing their mistake. Letting it slide just raises questions on their judgment.

In any case I guess we just got to see what happens in the future and hope its a once off blip.

The organisers had no grounds to pull his entry. He severed hisban and is free to run the race. I dont know what sort of deals these elites get but whether its apoerance money or just expences it would be a contract that couldnt be legally broken once agreed. It was an error or oversight to contract him but to accuse the organisers of corruption is nonsense, theres nothing they would like more than an irish winner.

justdoit · 28-10-2019 4:53pm

Can I play devil's advocate for a second? Is there no merit in the argument that this is an athlete who has served his time and should therefore be free to compete again?

In nearly every sport, there are athletes who return from drugs bans and resume their careers.

I don't like it, but equally I would have thought that an event would be on shaky ground if refusing an entrant a spot based on something that they have already been punished for (I've got absolutely no legal knowledge to back that).

I'm also a massive Stephen Scullion fan, and it would love to have seen him win, but there is no guarantee that he would have won if the eventual winner wasn't running.

robinph · 28-10-2019 5:09pm

Lazare wrote: »

DCM don't pay appearance money or expenses. Jim Aughney is a reg at my parkrun, was chatting to him about it a few weeks ago. Athletes view Dublin as a stepping stone, a win at Dublin gets them paid invites to majors.

Maybe a more major marathon, but not a Marathon Major as I'm pretty sure that those 6 events won't invite anyone with any previous bans.

BDI · 28-10-2019 5:45pm

justdoit wrote: »

Can I play devil's advocate for a second? Is there no merit in the argument that this is an athlete who has served his time and should therefore be free to compete again?

In nearly every sport, there are athletes who return from drugs bans and resume their careers.

I don't like it, but equally I would have thought that an event would be on shaky ground if refusing an entrant a spot based on something that they have already been punished for (I've got absolutely no legal knowledge to back that).

I'm also a massive Stephen Scullion fan, and it would love to have seen him win, but there is no guarantee that he would have won if the eventual winner wasn't running.

I heard from numerous specialists and documentary makers over the years and the general consensus is you can benefit for up to 4 years from a proper course of ped s. So to take a two year ban where you probably won’t get tested and come back and still go straight into winning races just smacks any honest athletes in the face.

Have to say fair play to anybody competing in an elite sport still clean. You should get a medal for that alone I’d imagine.

Burkie1203 · 28-10-2019 5:47pm

OOnegative wrote: »

He was an elite entry, he didn’t register online like the other 17 odd thousand that finished yesterday. His credentials obviously weren’t checked properly.

As to your mistakes point, course i’ve made mistakes but the point i’m trying to make this is a mistake that should not have happened, to late for excuses now. We should be reading about an Irishman winning DCM yesterday in the papers not about some convicted drug cheat doing it.

No guarantee Scullion would have won if the field was different.

solidasarock wrote: »

Yeah thats some BS

"Honoring his entry" after he "slipped threw the cracks" just comes across as incompetent if not potentially corrupt on the side of the organizers.

No one would question them if they pulled his entry from the race once they seeing their mistake. Letting it slide just raises questions on their judgment.

In any case I guess we just got to see what happens in the future and hope its a once off blip.

They made a mistake. But there is contracts signed via an agent. If they just pulled the plug they could have left themselves open to legal action. Dublin marathon probably took legal advice before making a decision but They made the mistake so they honoured the contract so i guess that there will be added stipulations going forward to give them the opportunity to stop a participant if this arises again. Learn from it and move on.

STB. · 28-10-2019 6:06pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

They made a mistake. But there is contracts signed via an agent. If they just pulled the plug they could have left themselves open to legal action. Dublin marathon probably took legal advice before making a decision but They made the mistake so they honoured the contract so i guess that there will be added stipulations going forward to give them the opportunity to stop a participant if this arises again. Learn from it and move on.

They made a mistake ! Yeah a BIG fúcking mistake INVITING him to compete.

A convicted doper now has the record in the Dublin City Marathon and 12k cash to boot.

Well done to the organisers. Embrace cheating.

solidasarock · 28-10-2019 6:18pm

ultrapercy wrote: »

The organisers had no grounds to pull his entry. He severed hisban and is free to run the race. I dont know what sort of deals these elites get but whether its apoerance money or just expences it would be a contract that couldnt be legally broken once agreed. It was an error or oversight to contract him but to accuse the organisers of corruption is nonsense, theres nothing they would like more than an irish winner.

If "doesn't meet the rules and standards set for every other elite athlete we let in" isnt grounds to revoke entry I dont knows what is.

Or maybe they should changes their rules to say "no drug cheats allowed unless we are in a particularly spicy mood that day".

In the end of the day they chose the integrity of their organization and the race over slightly inconveniencing a disgraced athlete and there will be a giant cloud over that course record until its broken. GG lads.

STB. · 28-10-2019 6:33pm

Esse85 wrote: »

The athlete that came second should be pretty annoyed so I'm guessing.

You could say that.

“Arguably I might have won the thing if he wasn’t here,” Scullion said, asked about the presence of El Goumri. “But look, I won, I feel like a winner inside, that’s a victory for me. I’ve always taken a stance that drug cheats can do whatever they want, I can’t control it. What else can I do. Not stand on the medal podium? Not buy into it?

“I want to enjoy my moment, and in six or nine months time if he gets done for another doping violation, then I’m the champ. If the crowd want to believe I’m the champ, let them say. And when the room goes dark at night, I go to bed content knowing I’m clean.”

ted1 · 29-10-2019 5:39pm

Did they not learn from last years mistake.

Murph_D · 29-10-2019 9:52pm

ted1 wrote: »

Did they not learn from last years mistake.

What mistake was that?

solidasarock · 29-10-2019 10:20pm

Maybe they should do a lottery and the winner can take all the PED's they want

Steve · 29-10-2019 10:34pm

BDI wrote: »

I heard from numerous specialists and documentary makers over the years and the general consensus is you can benefit for up to 4 years from a proper course of ped s. So to take a two year ban where you probably won’t get tested and come back and still go straight into winning races just smacks any honest athletes in the face.

This.

I've heard experts interviewed that claim exactly this - and claim it lasts more than 4 years due to enhanced muscle memory. They were discussing a study of benefits that last into old age rather than competitive events though.

ted1 · 29-10-2019 11:43pm

Murph_D wrote: »

What mistake was that?

Sorry it was 2017, when they awarded the national title to someone who wasn’t eligible

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/revised-marathon-result-means-gary-o-hanlon-wins-irish-title-1.3277072%3fmode=amp

Pherekydes · 29-10-2019 11:59pm

ted1 wrote: »

Sorry it was 2017, when they awarded the national title to someone who wasn’t eligible

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/revised-marathon-result-means-gary-o-hanlon-wins-irish-title-1.3277072%3fmode=amp

AAI run the national marathon. They made the mistake, not DCM.

STB. · 30-10-2019 12:53am

Steve wrote: »

This.

I've heard experts interviewed that claim exactly this - and claim it lasts more than 4 years due to enhanced muscle memory. They were discussing a study of benefits that last into old age rather than competitive events though.

Most likely a permanent effect of testosterone doping.

If you look at the list of track & field athletes given sanctions based on biological passports, the vast majority are long distance or marathon runners.

Ceepo · 05-11-2019 11:29pm

Seems it not just DCM that invites past doers..

Mathew Kisorio, won Beijing marathon in 2:07:06.

He was busted back in 2012 when he tested positive for steroids and admitted the use of them.

ttps://marathonview.net/race/109005?count=8

DCM won by convicted drug cheat

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