Cars and their acceptance

Thelonious Monk · 25-10-2019 11:12AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Cycling's great for kids, or for sport, or pastime, largely a pain in the arse for transport beyond a couple of miles and beyond useless if you have to carry any equipment for work or pleasure(buses aren't much cop here either actually).

Well sorry but you don't know what you're talking about obviously. My commute is 10k each way and it's barely strenuous at all. Anyone able bodied who lives within the M50 and works in the centre of Dublin should be able to commute by bicycle. There's nothing quite like the feeling of whizzing by long snakes of traffic.

Tacitus Kilgore · 25-10-2019 11:33AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

planning towns and cities so that we aren't reliant on cars? I was on Capel st last night and it's barely walkable/cycleable/driveable with the amount of parked cars on both sides of quite a narrow st. If they got rid of the parking they could have contra flow bike lanes and wider footpaths.
I don't know why priority is given to cars on streets. I'm nearly 40 and have never owned a car, so it isn't necessary always.

Come down and live with me for a bit, see how good life is without a car.

Wibbs · 25-10-2019 11:35AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well sorry but you don't know what you're talking about obviously.

Aye, there's a lot of that going around alright... QV:

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm nearly 40 and have never owned a car, so it isn't necessary always.

Good for you. But again crazy thought, other people aren't you. Today I'll go to Naas and likely a quick jaunt to north Wicklow and last time I looked my name wasn't Sean Kelly, so a bike would be as much use to me as tits on a bull.

My commute is 10k each way and it's barely strenuous at all. Anyone able bodied who lives within the M50 and works in the centre of Dublin should be able to commute by bicycle. There's nothing quite like the feeling of whizzing by long snakes of traffic.

I don't work in the city(or rarely), so handy enough for me. However I'm not going get all narky about those who have to whether they get their by bike, bus, or car. This hairshirt holier than thou ballsology from some cyclists(and the occasional car driver, bonus points if they plug their cars in of an evening) gets irritating quickly enough.

Ray Palmer · 25-10-2019 11:39AM

Wibbs wrote: »

WTF? He said he lives and works in the country. And what's this nonsense about "choice". I dunno, here's a mad thought; maybe he was born and bred in a rural area and god forbid wants to stay there. What would you have him do, sell up and move to a small flat in Dublin or Cork and walk to his work cubicle?

And you "have to put up with people"? Ah you poor thing. :rolleyes: You must live an extremely sheltered life if you think people chose to live many miles away from work, sitting in rush hour traffic in car or bus(surrounded by the too often unwashed). I hate to break it to you, but 9 times outa 10 it's because that's the only bloody place they could afford to rent or buy.

So what if he was born there, now an adult and made a choice where to live and work. The same way I made a choice. The difference my choice doesn't impose on their choice but theirs does on my choice.

Far from living a sheltered life I know why people made choices. To say their only option was derived from pricing alone is nonsense. Friends and family declaring I was crazy for buying a smaller property close to the city instead of a bigger house further out where my only option would be to drive. They then start complaining that their commutes are so long, costly and their employer doesn't provide parking. They go on about how they park on residential roads and the locals campaign for resident parking are b**tards for stopping them. They spent the same money as I did on their homes and they certainly did have a choice. To claim 9 out of 10 people bought or rent as that was all they could afford is nonsense.

I am not saying everybody can do without their cars but it is nowhere near the majority. Many do so for convenience and personal pleasure. People often point to one thing they do maybe twice a year as a reason to have a car like getting DIY materials.

Thelonious Monk · 25-10-2019 11:41AM

Yes some people need cars for work but many dont and they should be encouraged to use other methods to get to work. Otherwise air pollution will just continue to get worse and gridlock will worsen too. What do you suggest we do, continue to encourage more people to drive everywhere whether its necessary or not?

Thelonious Monk · 25-10-2019 11:43AM

Also what is a hairshirt?

Ray Palmer · 25-10-2019 11:44AM

PGE1970 wrote: »

Do you realise how ridiculous and sanctimonious this sounds?
I''m thinking that you are just on a wind-up. This is in AH and not motors thread after all.

No I don't. How is it different from somebody claiming they have to drive because they CHOSE to live somewhere away from the city but work there for a better quality of life? They are literally the people causing the city to be congested and polluted so they have what they want.

Thelonious Monk · 25-10-2019 11:45AM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Come down and live with me for a bit, see how good life is without a car.

Well i wouldnt live somewhere that required me to own a car so no thanks

Tacitus Kilgore · 25-10-2019 11:47AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes some people need cars for work but many dont and they should be encouraged to use other methods to get to work. Otherwise air pollution will just continue to get worse and gridlock will worsen too. What do you suggest we do, continue to encourage more people to drive everywhere whether its necessary or not?

I suggest someone comes up with a decent working alternative instead of just flaming against the car all of the time and telling people it's their choice to own a car - it is a choice, same way breathing and eating are a choice.

I own a rake of cars - they are my hobby, I would prefer not to have to drive one of a daily basis because I get no joy from polluting the world on the way to work and do my shopping but there are absolutely no workable alternatives for me. (except of course moving into Dublin city :rolleyes:)

"JuSt MoVe To a CiTy" is absolute scutter.

Thelonious Monk · 25-10-2019 11:49AM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I suggest someone comes up with a decent working alternative instead of just flaming against the car all of the time and telling people it's their choice to own a car - it is a choice, same way breathing and eating are a choice.

I own a rake of cars - they are my hobby, I would prefer not to have to drive one of a daily basis because I get no joy from polluting the world on the way to work and do my shopping but there are absolutely no workable alternatives for me. (except of course moving into Dublin city :rolleyes:)

"JuSt MoVe To a CiTy" is absolute scutter.

Youve no alternatives, grand. Many who live in cities do though and continue to drive and clog the place up. I would like a less congested cleaner city that is nicer to walk and cycle around much like many of our european counterparts. I hope we are going in that direction.

Tacitus Kilgore · 25-10-2019 11:54AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well i wouldnt live somewhere that required me to own a car so no thanks

:pac: excellent retort.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Youve no alternatives, grand. Many who live in cities do though and continue to drive and clog the place up. I would like a less congested cleaner city that is nicer to walk and cycle around much like many of our european counterparts. I hope we are going in that direction.

Absolutely, those people should walk/cycle/public transport & scoot where possible, I am merely trying to highlight the enormous flaws in the crusade against the motor car, and to be fair yourself and the OP have done my work for me.

Ray Palmer · 25-10-2019 11:56AM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I suggest someone comes up with a decent working alternative instead of just flaming against the car all of the time and telling people it's their choice to own a car - it is a choice, same way breathing and eating are a choice.

I own a rake of cars - they are my hobby, I would prefer not to have to drive one of a daily basis because I get no joy from polluting the world on the way to work and do my shopping but there are absolutely no workable alternatives for me. (except of course moving into Dublin city :rolleyes:)

"JuSt MoVe To a CiTy" is absolute scutter.

Yet people say I should move out of the city to avoid the problems caused by the commuters.

Driving a car is in no way comparable to breathing or eating.There are a huge amount of journeys that are driven without any need to. One of my neighbours drives to the local shop that is a 10 minute walk to buy the newspaper. I have seen him yelling and shouting about parking there when he could easily walk or cycle.

A person I work with drives to work and it takes her 1.5 hours she lives around the corner from me. I get in to work in 30 minutes cycling. She could save 2 hours a day and get much needed exercise. Instead she goes on about her diet and the lack of parking at the gym a 20 minute walk from her house.

If you don't see that as crazy can you explain how it is sensible.

Thelonious Monk · 25-10-2019 11:59AM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

and to be fair yourself and the OP have done my work for me.

By saying we should encourage other methods in cities? Outside of the major urban areas in Ireland, development has been around motor cars with zero public transport, so reliance on cars wont be changing there any time soon, that's ok.
But in Dublin for e.g., we could have way better public transport if we had less cars on the road and a way safer infrastructure for cyclists, and scooters too why not. Outside of tradesmen and deliveries etc there's no reason why so many people should be driving in the city centre.

tjhook · 25-10-2019 12:03PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But in Dublin for e.g., we could have way better public transport if we had less cars on the road and a way safer infrastructure for cyclists, and scooters too why not.

You have it backwards. If more/better public transport was made available, it would be used, and there would be less traffic as a result.

Look at the take-up of the Luas
Irish Rail can't cope with the numbers of customers, and are asking people to spread out their usage.

Speaking as a user of public transport. Having said that, if public transport is not convenient for my next job, I'll be back in the car!

Thelonious Monk · 25-10-2019 12:05PM

tjhook wrote: »

You have it backwards. If more/better public transport was made available, it would be used, and there would be less traffic as a result.

If you cycle to work and see how clogged the bus lanes are every single day with private cars and taxis impeding buses you might change your mind. But yes we need massive investment in PT all over Ireland, it doesn't seem to be a vote winner though.

maccored · 25-10-2019 12:06PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The fact is you chose to live rural and away from work.

not this old chestnut again.

The answer IS NOT move to a city,

biko · 25-10-2019 12:11PM

**** off back to Sweden Greta

Thelonious Monk · 25-10-2019 12:12PM

biko wrote: »

**** off back to Sweden Greta

wrong thread bruv

Ray Palmer · 25-10-2019 12:13PM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

:pac: excellent retort.

Absolutely, those people should walk/cycle/public transport & scoot where possible, I am merely trying to highlight the enormous flaws in the crusade against the motor car, and to be fair yourself and the OP have done my work for me.

There is your problem right there, it isn't a crusade. You are already assuming that pointing out real concerns as me trying to ban cars. I never said they should be banned or close to it. Pointing out how wasteful cars are and their problems is not a crusade. The fact you are raging over this just shows you have the issue and can't discuss the subject.

Why should cars be sold that can go 50% over the speed limit?

Ray Palmer · 25-10-2019 12:17PM

maccored wrote: »

not this old chestnut again.

The answer IS NOT move to a city,

If somebody is saying they need a car because of where they live what is the problem with questioning why they chose to live there when it requires a car?
Why is the answer not to live close to work and transport?

guyfo · 25-10-2019 12:24PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There is your problem right there, it isn't a crusade. You are already assuming that pointing out real concerns as me trying to ban cars. I never said they should be banned or close to it. Pointing out how wasteful cars are and their problems is not a crusade. The fact you are raging over this just shows you have the issue and can't discuss the subject.

Why should cars be sold that can go 50% over the speed limit?

Because race tracks exist... so do autobahns... and so do people like myself who thoroughly enjoy the sensation of driving.

Your arguments on this are just bizzare. If public transport was better than cars people would use it, but it's not so they don't.. simple

Tacitus Kilgore · 25-10-2019 12:26PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If somebody is saying they need a car because of where they live what is the problem with questioning why they chose to live there when it requires a car?
Why is the answer not to live close to work and transport?

'Cos life is about more than going to work and working.

"my lifestyle is great and I like it, why can't everyone else just live like me"

Wibbs · 25-10-2019 12:29PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Also what is a hairshirt?

:pac:

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Why should cars be sold that can go 50% over the speed limit?

Generally speaking the more powerful the car the less stress it is to drive at any speed and the safer it is to overtake. This tends to mean it'll fly through the top speed limit.

As for smaller home closer to work, versus larger home further away; It's not just about the commute. Are you married, do you have kids? I'm betting not, because your arguments sound like those of a single person. An urban flat is fine for a singleton, not so fine for a family. Certainly not until Irish architects and builders design proper family focussed apartments like they do on the continent.

biko wrote: »

It's rare to get a glimpse into the mind of someone from the Green Party

Like all crusaders there's a hint of a reality that would be worth changing there, but the altitude sickness from their high horses starves their argument of oxygen and tends to make people they're trying to convert switch off.

scamalert · 25-10-2019 12:33PM

op maybe live at work, kill two birds with one stone.

most people enjoy independence of owning cars, getting anywhere anytime without need to rely on stuffed public transport or any routes/schedules.

if i have to pay trough the nose for having car, sure enough ill rather take a 5min drive then hike each time i need to get anywhere for half an hour, if likes of you have to suffer some carbon inhalation and noise i can live with that.

maccored · 25-10-2019 12:37PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If somebody is saying they need a car because of where they live what is the problem with questioning why they chose to live there when it requires a car?
Why is the answer not to live close to work and transport?

Really? Do you have to have it explained to you that people A) might find their niche job outside a city,

theres nowhere to rent at reasonable rates in somewhere like Dublin and

their employer mightnt be based in a city

The problem with 'questioning why they chose to live there when it requires a car' is that its a pretty naive question

Ray Palmer · 25-10-2019 12:37PM

guyfo wrote: »

Because race tracks exist... so do autobahns... and so do people like myself who thoroughly enjoy the sensation of driving.

Your arguments on this are just bizzare. If public transport was better than cars people would use it, but it's not so they don't.. simple

Yeah because there are so many cars in Ireland that go to race track and travel to Germany. If you are speeding on public roads here for pleasure then you should be stopped from driving. Putting others at risk for your pleasure isn't justifiable. You are precisely the kind of person who should have a restricted car.

Public transport and other alternatives are slow precisely because of car use. They park, drive,use and stop in bus lanes. Nothing bizarre in saying the reliance on cars is wasteful.

Again you are making it sound like I suggest banning cars which I am not. Enjoy driving all you like but don't expect all the allowances that are currently there to remain.

sunny2004 · 25-10-2019 12:40PM

A thread with those without cars complaining about those with cars.

Ray Palmer · 25-10-2019 12:44PM

maccored wrote: »

Really? Do you have to have it explained to you that people A) might find their niche job outside a city, theres nowhere to rent at reasonable rates in somewhere like Dublin and their employer mightnt be based in a city

The problem with 'questioning why they chose to live there when it requires a car' is that its a pretty naive question

Naive? Explain why my work colleague is driving the same distance taking 3 times as long as me by choosing to drive.

You are talking about exceptions as if that is the majority of people when it clearly isn't.

If it is a niche job then it doesn't apply to the majority. If they aren't in the city centre then they don't have to drive in the city. Transport goes out of the city too.

The majority of journeys in cars in dublin are not necessary. To point out exceptions doesn't change that.

It will change and be more expensive to own and use a car. It just can't continue as is.

Ray Palmer · 25-10-2019 12:46PM

sunny2004 wrote: »

A thread with those without cars complaining about those with cars.

I have a car, I use it rarely because I don't need to.

Gumbo · 25-10-2019 12:48PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

allowances that are currently there to remain.

What allowances?

Cars and their acceptance

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