Irish Rail Overcrowding on RTE Prime Time Tonight

Jamie2k9 · 24-10-2019 8:48pm #1

Looks like high profile incidents on Mayo line have brought some bad PR and now a Prime Time slot.

Appears reference to 2700 will also be made. Management are also suggesting certain trains could become reservation only. I suspect this is them trying to apply tactical pressure on NTA and Goverment and not a serous proposal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2019/1024/1085459-trains-overcrowding/

mfceiling · 24-10-2019 8:53pm

I'd say it's a problem on most commuter routes tbh.
I couldn't believe it myself until I got the bus this morning. 6.25 leaving the terminus at limekiln avenue. I'm about the 6th or 7th stop and when the bus came all the seats downstairs were taken and there was 11 people at my stop!! Bus literally had no seats left at terenure.

magicbastarder · 24-10-2019 8:55pm

don't worry, the government are coming to the rescue - they've announced half a billion spend on a couple of roads out west in the last week or two...

Del.Monte · 24-10-2019 8:58pm

CIE/IE need to close all the lightly used lines and replace them with buses - thereby releasing 10 or 12 carriages - bound to solve the problem but the suggestion will be out there.

CIE/IE should not be allowed to make any decisions about acquisitions of locomotives or rolling stock as they have proved to be incapable of getting it right time after time. Bet RTE won't ask about the MkIIIs - would they even know what one was? Another BS programme will be produced - space filling by the National BS Broadcaster.

CoBo55 · 24-10-2019 9:00pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

CIE/IE need to close all the lightly used lines and replace them with buses - thereby releasing 10 or 12 carriages - bound to solve the problem but the suggestion will be out there.

CIE/IE should not be allowed to make any decisions about acquisitions of locomotives or rolling stock as they have proved to be incapable of getting it right time after time. Bet RTE won't ask about the MkIIIs - would they even know what one was? Another BS programme will be produced - space filling by the National BS Broadcaster.

Somebody's miffed..

seligehgit · 24-10-2019 9:17pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

don't worry, the government are coming to the rescue - they've announced half a billion spend on a couple of roads out west in the last week or two...

One dual carriageway as far as I know that is'nt costing anywhere near half a billion and has been badly needed for 20 to 25 years plus.

Dravokivich · 24-10-2019 10:10pm

So, it came across as more of a snapshot of what's happening, than an informative report.

Del.Monte · 24-10-2019 10:10pm

Well that was non-event as expected. Roll on RTE to the next topic and where was Barry Kenny? Rediscover the Joy of the Train my hole!

L1011 · 24-10-2019 10:21pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

CIE/IE need to close all the lightly used lines and replace them with buses - thereby releasing 10 or 12 carriages - bound to solve the problem but the suggestion will be out there.

I've mentioned it as an unlikely and of limited use thing that could be done temporarily; along with the even less plausible idea of getting the RPSI to operate one/some of the branch lines. I don't think anyone takes them seriously :pac:

IE 222 · 24-10-2019 10:53pm

They could probably squeeze a bit more out the mark4s to be fair. There must be at least 3 sets overnighting in Dublin. One or two of these could probably be used on a Kildare, Portlaoise or the Carlow & Athlone services in the morning peak and free a ICR or 2 up while been back to Hueston in time for there normal duties.

Is the 8:00am Mallow - Cork a mark4 set? I presume this does the 9:25 from Cork. What service does it form the evening before? Could this be swapped to a 3 or 4 car ICR instead as I wouldn't of thought the 8am and the 9:25am would be overly busy.

Klonker · 25-10-2019 12:04am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Looks like high profile incidents on Mayo line have brought some bad PR and now a Prime Time slot.

Appears reference to 2700 will also be made. Management are also suggesting certain trains could become reservation only. I suspect this is them trying to apply tactical pressure on NTA and Goverment and not a serous proposal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2019/1024/1085459-trains-overcrowding/

The RTE links stats the carriages are in the process of being ordered. What's the delay? Plus it takes 2 years to fill the order. Why weren't the carriages ordered 1 or 2 years ago, we obviously have a growing population.

The same thing is happening with the Dart and its actually funny that they are asking people to try not to get peak time Darts if possible. When they updated their timetables about a year ago they actually admitted that they took frequency and capacity away from peak services to have 10 min Darts throughout the day when nobody is using them. You couldn't make it up. Some of the people at the top making the decisions need to change.

Geuze · 25-10-2019 12:25am

Del.Monte wrote: »

CIE/IE should not be allowed to make any decisions about acquisitions of locomotives or rolling stock as they have proved to be incapable of getting it right time after time. Bet RTE won't ask about the MkIIIs - would they even know what one was? Another BS programme will be produced - space filling by the National BS Broadcaster.

So as well as the 2700 fleet being mothballed in storage, what is the status of the Mk IIIs?

These used to be used on Dub-Cork?

Gekko · 25-10-2019 12:31am

seligehgit wrote: »

One dual carriageway as far as I know that is'nt costing anywhere near half a billion and has been badly needed for 20 to 25 years plus.

One in Mayo and other Clare or somewhere and both come to half a bill

whisky_galore · 25-10-2019 12:50am

Geuze wrote: »

what is the status of the Mk IIIs?

These used to be used on Dub-Cork?

You've probably shaved with some of them.

whisky_galore · 25-10-2019 1:02am

Gekko wrote: »

One in Mayo and other Clare or somewhere and both come to half a bill

Dem mosherways are the sexy vote getters, rail isn't. FG have always been anti rail.

prinzeugen · 25-10-2019 1:17am

Del.Monte wrote: »

CIE/IE should not be allowed to make any decisions about acquisitions of locomotives or rolling stock as they have proved to be incapable of getting it right time after time. Bet RTE won't ask about the MkIIIs - would they even know what one was? Another BS programme will be produced - space filling by the National BS Broadcaster.

Procurement was taken out of the hands of CIE/IE and that is the problem. We now have idiots in the RPA/NTA with zero railway experience, arguing about bi-modes etc when there could have been new stock in service now had it been left to IE.

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2019 9:23am

Must say it was a major let down by RTE. Why didn't they bring the NTA or even get a statement from them explaining why they have yet to take action.

On the plus side the pre-booked proposal is working effectively:

Committee chair hits out at Iarnród Éireann over pre-booking

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1025/1085532-irish-rail-booking/

Del.Monte · 25-10-2019 9:44am

prinzeugen wrote: »

Procurement was taken out of the hands of CIE/IE and that is the problem. We now have idiots in the RPA/NTA with zero railway experience, arguing about bi-modes etc when there could have been new stock in service now had it been left to IE.

So you're telling me that it was the RPA/NTA decided to get rid of the MkIIIs and replace with sardine cans - not Dick Fearn? The NTA/RPA decided that SDO should not be a design feature of the new trains etc.etc.?

Salmon Leap · 25-10-2019 10:09am

Geuze wrote: »

So as well as the 2700 fleet being mothballed in storage, what is the status of the Mk IIIs?

These used to be used on Dub-Cork?

Mk3s scrapped a few years ago

2700 fleet apparently would cost 40m+ to refurb as they were unreliable anyway even before mothballing

Geuze · 25-10-2019 10:58am

So to confirm/clarify the fleet:

Locos + Mark IV on Dub-Cork
Locos + DeDietrich on Dub-Belfast

2600 DMU = 17 coaches, mainly based in Cork
2800 DMU = 20 coaches, 10x2car trains
29000 DMU = 29 x 4car trains, These are mainly used around Dublin?

22000 ICR = 63 trains, with 41 more of these coaches on order?

And all of these are flat out in use every day??

There is no spare stock at all?

Does NI have any spare stock?

Del.Monte · 25-10-2019 11:09am

NO spare stock at all. Perhaps CIE should hire the Belmond MkIII set back during winter months?

L1011 · 25-10-2019 11:12am

There was usually one 4 car 22k set spare in Dublin but they are rotating them through an interior refresh at the moment. Also you do need spares for failures.

NI hasn't got anything we could get long-term. They are still down a route due to a claimed lack of stock to run it, although its clear they don't intend to reopen it

Charles Babbage · 25-10-2019 11:18am

magicbastarder wrote: »

don't worry, the government are coming to the rescue - they've announced half a billion spend on a couple of roads out west in the last week or two...

This is exactly the type of comment that undermines all of these discussions.
At least one of those roads was planned a dozen years ago and not proceeded with, it hardly reflects any priority being given to roads and delaying those roads will not retrospectively ensure that carriages were ordered in 2016. The problem here is that this government is more hung up on promising tax cuts than investing in anything and they have zero concept of value for money and a timely planning process which ensures that panics do not occur is required in all aspects of public planning.

Procurement was taken out of the hands of CIE/IE and that is the problem. We now have idiots in the RPA/NTA with zero railway experience, arguing about bi-modes etc when there could have been new stock in service now had it been left to IE.

Fancy equipment for the future is all very fine, but the first objective has to be to have sufficient capacity at all times. Imagine if Eirgrid had planned lots of renewable capacity for 2030, but did not ensure there would not be brownouts in the meantime?

Of course, being Ireland, nobody will be held responsible for this.

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2019 11:45am

L1011 wrote: »

There was usually one 4 car 22k set spare in Dublin but they are rotating them through an interior refresh at the moment. Also you do need spares for failures.

NI hasn't got anything we could get long-term. They are still down a route due to a claimed lack of stock to run it, although its clear they don't intend to reopen it

But its not really spare it's a standby set covering for 56 other sets which could encounter issues anytime. There will also be 2-3 sets under going heavy maintenance/testing etc at any time.

end of the road · 25-10-2019 2:17pm

so, to do the numbers.
63 ICR sets.
56 in daily service.
1 standby.
3 out for maintenence and 3 out for testing?
so 7 sets not in service per day? there is surely some scope to cut down the number out.

IE 222 · 25-10-2019 3:59pm

Of the 56 sets how many of them are actually working in a multiple formation throughout the day. This obviously brings that number down in terms of actual available trains.

How many extra formations are the 41 new cars going to create?

L1011 · 25-10-2019 4:27pm

Don't think that figure is available. There's plenty of 3+4 pairs in use daily so there are driving cars that can be released anyway

IE 222 · 25-10-2019 6:02pm

L1011 wrote: »

Don't think that figure is available. There's plenty of 3+4 pairs in use daily so there are driving cars that can be released anyway

Plenty of 3+3 as well. I've seen the odd 4+4 but not sure if that's a regular formation.

Presumably the 10 premier sets will be reformed into 6 car sets which leaves 48 3 car and the 5 6 car high capacity sets to play with. My guess the fleet would be made into something like,

6 x 7 car (formed using 3&4 car sets)
10 x 6car (premier sets)
20 x 5car (including the 5 high capacity sets)
10 x 4car (16 including the ones used to make 7car sets)
11 x 3car (17 including the ones used to make 7car sets)

Currently there is

10 x 5cars
25 x 4cars
28 x 3cars

I'd say at least 20 of them 3 and 4 car sets are working in multiples bringing the number of available trains down to around 45. Not forgetting that 7 sets are kept out of service as spares and for maintenance. My suggestion would make an extra 12 trains available, just over a 25% increase.

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2019 6:03pm

Should say the figure of 56 isn’t confirmed but its around that number. Max I would say 58.

Relating to number joined units is probably around 25-30 so about 15 trains at various times during day. Remember some split/join at times.

The number out of service isn’t many as 2-3 on maintenance, I believe they have to do a big check once a month. Others could be getting new wheels/overhauls/tests/repairs and may need to cover for a bigger failure.

dowlingm · 25-10-2019 6:19pm

Salmon Leap wrote: »

Mk3s scrapped a few years ago

2700 fleet apparently would cost 40m+ to refurb as they were unreliable anyway even before mothballing

They could have used the 2700s to test out hybrid power and ZF transmissions rather than messing around with 22Ks.

As for the 22K 41 cars, there will be a big song and dance when they arrive in Dublin Port (assuming they don't get rusted from fertilizer again) but the commissioning process will doubtless be long and painful, with in-service 22s having to be taken OOS to form the head and tail for the new cars and flogged up and down the tracks to generate test mileage... and meanwhile the 29000s having to be put in dry dock before they fall apart entirely.

IE 222 · 25-10-2019 8:37pm

dowlingm wrote: »

They could have used the 2700s to test out hybrid power and ZF transmissions rather than messing around with 22Ks.

As for the 22K 41 cars, there will be a big song and dance when they arrive in Dublin Port (assuming they don't get rusted from fertilizer again) but the commissioning process will doubtless be long and painful, with in-service 22s having to be taken OOS to form the head and tail for the new cars and flogged up and down the tracks to generate test mileage... and meanwhile the 29000s having to be put in dry dock before they fall apart entirely.

If timed for a summer arrival it shouldn't be to bad. If the 2900s can be removed form intercity duties they could use these to kickstart a refurbishment program.

Is 41 set in stone or is there any hope of an increase. Giving how long this process is taking I wouldn't hold my breath on the new Darts been ordered anytime soon.

prinzeugen · 26-10-2019 3:25am

Del.Monte wrote: »

So you're telling me that it was the RPA/NTA decided to get rid of the MkIIIs and replace with sardine cans - not Dick Fearn? The NTA/RPA decided that SDO should not be a design feature of the new trains etc.etc.?

SDO is a nightmare. Just look at the fun and games on Greater Anglia just now.

Dick Fern always said they would not put unnecessary stuff in trains as its just something else to go wrong. Again look at the UK. People stuck for 5 hours because a computer says NO!

The money that would have been spent on the Mk3s would be ridiculous. It was cheaper to buy a standard fleet. Spares, etc.

The Mk3 would not meet modern disability standards anyway.

Del.Monte · 26-10-2019 7:59am

prinzeugen wrote: »

SDO is a nightmare. Just look at the fun and games on Greater Anglia just now.

Dick Fern always said they would not put unnecessary stuff in trains as its just something else to go wrong. Again look at the UK. People stuck for 5 hours because a computer says NO!

The money that would have been spent on the Mk3s would be ridiculous. It was cheaper to buy a standard fleet. Spares, etc.

The Mk3 would not meet modern disability standards anyway.

I can't see how a couple of door issues on a foreign railway has any bearing on whether or not SDO is a worthwhile addition to trains here.

Dick Fearn and unnecessary stuff on trains - like the seat reservation lights which never seem to work and the hit and miss PA system...

How much would it have cost to refurbish the MkIIIs? Belmond seem to have managed and I doubt whether CIE would have needed to spend quite as much per carriage to satisfy their customers.

The decision to go for ICRs was based on cost cutting regardless of customer comfort or anything else. Get rid of locomotives, remove the need for shunters, remove round round facilities and basically make the railway inflexible. In the process millions of Euros worth of equipment was scrapped and we are where we are.

Jamie2k9 · 26-10-2019 10:08am

dowlingm wrote: »

They could have used the 2700s to test out hybrid power and ZF transmissions rather than messing around with 22Ks.

As for the 22K 41 cars, there will be a big song and dance when they arrive in Dublin Port (assuming they don't get rusted from fertilizer again) but the commissioning process will doubtless be long and painful, with in-service 22s having to be taken OOS to form the head and tail for the new cars and flogged up and down the tracks to generate test mileage... and meanwhile the 29000s having to be put in dry dock before they fall apart entirely.

The ZF transmission is for the 22s and could throw up loads of issues than using 27s, one notable is speed tests, heavier trains etc. Its only going to last a few weeks and if there are problems they will just return the unit to service if needed.

If the 9,000km test is required they could do 2 return runs per day over 8 days between Dublin/Cork. Now it might be possible to make up a 6/7 car unit with two existing driving ends with 4/5 new coaches in the middle. The addition of a car to existing fleet went reasonable well so once the software works again the 9,000km run can be achieved easily. They will probally receive 4/5 at a time so shouldn't be a major problem.

SDO is a nightmare. Just look at the fun and games on Greater Anglia just now.

Issues with one operator what about the rest who use it daily.

IE 222 · 26-10-2019 12:09pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I can't see how a couple of door issues on a foreign railway has any bearing on whether or not SDO is a worthwhile addition to trains here.

Dick Fearn and unnecessary stuff on trains - like the seat reservation lights which never seem to work and the hit and miss PA system...

How much would it have cost to refurbish the MkIIIs? Belmond seem to have managed and I doubt whether CIE would have needed to spend quite as much per carriage to satisfy their customers.

The decision to go for ICRs was based on cost cutting regardless of customer comfort or anything else. Get rid of locomotives, remove the need for shunters, remove round round facilities and basically make the railway inflexible. In the process millions of Euros worth of equipment was scrapped and we are where we are.

To be fair, at the time there was a lot of stock that needed replacement. The government at the time were hooked on the greener and youngest fleet in Europe headlines as well. There was plenty of suburban stock around and the ICRs were providing a massive increase in services, capacity and flexibility.

The country going to into recession and the many years of cutbacks that followed didn't help. The years of cutbacks and under investment since 2009 is what were experiencing now. Maintaining run around infrastructure, an aging fleet, higher staff numbers and likely a shortage in locomotives would of cost millions more an crippled IE future and left the whole railway in a dismal state. It was only 3 or 4 years ago IE were on their knees and needed additional funding just to keep things running.

The withdrawal of the 2700s in 2010 is evidence of this and realistically they were out of service for the best part of 8 years before any attention was put back onto them. Even if stored better it would still of costed a fair bit to bring a small fleet back into service after 8 or 9 years of been parked up only to be withdrawn again 4 or 5 years later.

They should of kept some of the Mk3 fleet, probably the push-pulls but It's easy to say that in hindsight. Given the circumstances at the time they probably made the right call to scrap them as they didn't have a need for them or anywhere to store them properly. If they were still parked up in 2016/7 I think we would of seen some been restored and put back into service.

end of the road · 26-10-2019 1:06pm

to be fair even during the recession there was still a huge issue with over-crowding. the only difference now is that it is at a stage where the whole railway could go pop because of the shortage of stock and inability to take stock out for needed overhaul.
the removal of the likes of the 2700s was only to make the politicians think costs were being cut, but the reality is that even then capacity cuts were causing massive issues. there was absolutely no need in reality to be taking stock out of service and storing it, there was use for it, but it was just the politicians preventing it by refusing to fund the railway properly.

IE 222 · 26-10-2019 7:49pm

end of the road wrote: »

to be fair even during the recession there was still a huge issue with over-crowding. the only difference now is that it is at a stage where the whole railway could go pop because of the shortage of stock and inability to take stock out for needed overhaul.
the removal of the likes of the 2700s was only to make the politicians think costs were being cut, but the reality is that even then capacity cuts were causing massive issues. there was absolutely no need in reality to be taking stock out of service and storing it, there was use for it, but it was just the politicians preventing it by refusing to fund the railway properly.

Passenger number plummeted during the recession and didn't begin climbing again till about 2016 where they've skyrocketed over the past 3 years.

I think the overcrowding your referring to was part of the cost cutting measures when IE reduced capacity on the Dart network. The fleet was still there and the 8100s got there overhaul during the period as well but the pressure was put back onto them again to put the capacity back in.

If I remember correctly the 2700s were taking out of service once the last of the ICRs arrived which allowed the 2800s to move to Limerick instead. The 2700 were in process of getting an overhaul and livery change but it was decided to keep them out of service as they were surplus to requirements at the time and put up for sale to produce some funds.

trellheim · 26-10-2019 9:36pm

Right

Stupid question ( or not,depending on your point of view)

Theres a huge amount of UK stock coming off use - why not re-bogie - wasnt that done with a bunch of our mk3 stock ?

end of the road · 26-10-2019 9:57pm

trellheim wrote: »

Right

Stupid question ( or not,depending on your point of view)

Theres a huge amount of UK stock coming off use - why not re-bogie - wasnt that done with a bunch of our mk3 stock ?

apparently the timeframe to get it sorted would take almost as long as a new order, + you then have leasing charges as stock in the uk is leased rather then owned.
a lot of it will be snapped up much quicker over there and is needed over there as well. some of it is actually life expired, others are electric units but wouldn't work on our electrical system.

end of the road · 26-10-2019 10:17pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Passenger number plummeted during the recession and didn't begin climbing again till about 2016 where they've skyrocketed over the past 3 years.

agreed but it wasn't an amount that allowed for capacity to be taken away.

IE 222 wrote: »

I think the overcrowding your referring to was part of the cost cutting measures when IE reduced capacity on the Dart network. The fleet was still there and the 8100s got there overhaul during the period as well but the pressure was put back onto them again to put the capacity back in.

not just the dart network but suburban and intercity had their own issues as well. as i said nothing compared to now, but certainly enough to keep anything servicible in service.
i think the 8100s if i remember rightly had their refurbishment just before the recession. i think 2007?

IE 222 wrote: »

If I remember correctly the 2700s were taking out of service once the last of the ICRs arrived which allowed the 2800s to move to Limerick instead. The 2700 were in process of getting an overhaul and livery change but it was decided to keep them out of service as they were surplus to requirements at the time and put up for sale to produce some funds.

i believe that was the case yes, however remember that IE deciding they were surplus to requirements and them actually being so, are to very different things.
in reality they were very much still needed, and the removal of 2800s to limerick (while of itself a good move as they can work as a common fleet with the 2600s in cork) caused issues on the dublin suburban.
nobody was ever going to buy the 2700s, other countries already had their own experiences of stock built by the same manufacturer around the same time, tbh i wonder if it was just done to say to the politicians, look we are doing something to get funds but it's not working. IE would themselves know that nobody would have bought them.

devnull · 26-10-2019 11:58pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Issues with one operator what about the rest who use it daily.

The word from Stadler is that the problems with SDO on the Flirt trains is because of the fact the the supplier of some of the equipment has provided a product that is not functioning properly, however the very same product is being used by Hitachi, Siemens and Bombardier, amongst others without any problems whatsoever so apparently the supplier isn't very happy.

With Greater Anglia being the first UK operator to order Stadler trains and them being very new to the UK environment and all of the regulations about DOO/SDO and the fact that Stadler had to buy in the train management system rather than developing their own like the bigger manufacturers, it's not surprising that they are having problems.

In relation to the recent events where Greater Anglia train had doors opening during journeys or on wrong side of the track, these were all instances that were on refurbished, Renatus Class 321 units, with that refurbishment program being a bit of a failure.

The simple fact is the established UK system manufacturers have produced trainsets using SDO, DDS or something similar for many years without any real problem whatsoever.

Jamie2k9 · 27-10-2019 1:04pm

Lets not forget the 22s, 29s and DART have had there share of door issues. Rare for rolling stock to not have door problems.

Del.Monte · 27-10-2019 1:18pm

Door problems - Lol - below is a close up of a door on the Bray/Greystones shuttle in 1985.

trellheim · 27-10-2019 10:32pm

apparently the timeframe to get it sorted would take almost as long as a new order, + you then have leasing charges

Meh I follow UK rail closely and theres a massive rake of stuff coming off lease

devnull · 27-10-2019 11:26pm

trellheim wrote: »

Meh I follow UK rail closely and theres a massive rake of stuff coming off lease

Almost all of the off-lease stuff is electrified units and the newer stuff is likely to find new uses and the older stuff is life expired or on the verge of it.

end of the road · 27-10-2019 11:53pm

trellheim wrote: »

Meh I follow UK rail closely and theres a massive rake of stuff coming off lease

i follow it as well and what i said stands.

prinzeugen · 28-10-2019 1:26am

trellheim wrote: »

Meh I follow UK rail closely and theres a massive rake of stuff coming off lease

Electric units mainly. The HST stock (coaches) could be useful here. The ones from LNER/EMT are probably in better condition than the ex GWR stock thats filled with seawater.

The issue with HST coaches however (as Wabtec are finding out) is that most of it was hand-built using Imperial measurements.

Nobody can measure in 1/32 inch anymore. That is why it is taking an age to fit new doors to the ScotRail HST stock. All the diesel units are spoken for and they are even converting EMU stock to Bi-modes.

There is little in the UK at the moment that would suit Ireland and the stuff we could use would need obscene amounts of money spent on it.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Dick Fearn and unnecessary stuff on trains - like the seat reservation lights which never seem to work and the hit and miss PA system...
.

Unnecessary stuff like the ridiculous amount of software that you see on other trains.

I think he said in an article in Modern Railways International "We dont need software to tell us we have 127.5ml of window washing fluid left for a cab, its something we don't need and its something that needs maintenance and can go wrong" . Or words to that effect.

IE 222 · 29-10-2019 12:03am

end of the road wrote: »

agreed but it wasn't an amount that allowed for capacity to be taken away.

not just the dart network but suburban and intercity had their own issues as well. as i said nothing compared to now, but certainly enough to keep anything servicible in service.
i think the 8100s if i remember rightly had their refurbishment just before the recession. i think 2007?

i believe that was the case yes, however remember that IE deciding they were surplus to requirements and them actually being so, are to very different things.
in reality they were very much still needed, and the removal of 2800s to limerick (while of itself a good move as they can work as a common fleet with the 2600s in cork) caused issues on the dublin suburban.
nobody was ever going to buy the 2700s, other countries already had their own experiences of stock built by the same manufacturer around the same time, tbh i wonder if it was just done to say to the politicians, look we are doing something to get funds but it's not working. IE would themselves know that nobody would have bought them.

It was, the number of journeys dropped by nearly 10 million over a 3-4 year period from 46million in 2007 to 36 million in 2011 and didn't regained again until 2017. Now its likely hitting around 49million. The low point was the same time the 27s were withdrawn.

They could of taking alot more than just the 27s out of service and still had enough capacity. Think they took MK4 stock out of service for a long period or most of the fleet anyway as well.

The capacity issues were just a result of tightening the belt. As I said 2 car DARTs were turning up on late afternoon services ect. They squeezed what they could out of 3 car ICRs rather than a 2/3's full 6 car, that's just part and parcel of cost cutting measures.

trellheim · 29-10-2019 12:55am

The HST stock (coaches) could be useful here. The ones from LNER/EMT are probably in better condition than the ex GWR stock thats filled with seawater.

The issue with HST coaches however (as Wabtec are finding out) is that most of it was hand-built using Imperial measurements.

are you saying we cant take mark iii HST coaching from the UK and rebogie ( ignore dmu and emu ) , and get a few sets out of it . Did we not do that before

sharper · 31-10-2019 10:23am

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/150m-in-rail-carriages-planned-to-tackle-overcrowding-960811.html

The Government has ordered an extra 41 rail carriages at a cost of €150m which it is claimed will help reduce overcrowding on commuter routes.

While the new carriages are expected to increase space for passengers and capacity on routes by a third, the rail cars will not be fully in use until mid-2022.

Interestingly the two biggest complaints on twitter are why did they wait until now (reasonable question) and why are these going to Dublin. I really think the government could do a far better job in making people aware of how little is spent on Dublin transport projects relatively speaking.

LeinsterDub · 31-10-2019 10:56am

sharper wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/150m-in-rail-carriages-planned-to-tackle-overcrowding-960811.html

Interestingly the two biggest complaints on twitter are why did they wait until now (reasonable question) and why are these going to Dublin. I really think the government could do a far better job in making people aware of how little is spent on Dublin transport projects relatively speaking.

Why would they do this the very next question would be you're in charge of it why don't you change it. The government is happy with the narrative that the crumbs they throw to sustainable transport is all they can afford while at the same time throwing billions around on roads.

Irish Rail Overcrowding on RTE Prime Time Tonight

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