Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

Conar · 24-10-2019 11:09AM

digzy wrote: »

Hi lads
Looking for a bit of free info please
I live in an old house. I've new windows and attic insulated. I've the air to water system installed. My electricity bills have been seriously steep (6k over last 9 months). hence I'm looking into other sources of electricity. I was given the following quote

1. 26 x 310 Mono JA Panels
2. 1 x Solax Inverter 3 Phase
3. 1 x 9kw Solax Battery
4. Ground works for cable to be done by client as per agreed and discount allowance included.

Caldor will process all grant paperwork & will claim the grant on your behalf. BER included as standard.

Total price would be €18,500 inc. Vat (after grant)

I was told by the rep/engineer that I'd be shaving 60% off the bills which I'd be happy with. However, I'm hearing that these panels may not have that kind of payback.

Do the sums add up?

thanks in advance

Sounds like there's something seriously wrong with your energy usage. That's approx 5 units per hour or more.
Unless you run a power shower and oven 24/7 I'd be more inclined to see what is using all that power.
My air to water costs me approx 800 per year (granted in an A3 rated house) but even if that was tripled I couldn't use your levels of power and I'd consider myself a heavy user.

Edit***
https://www.seai.ie/tools/solar-electricity-calculator/
With regards to saving 60% of an 8k per year bill I'd say they're lying through their teeth.
If you put into in the above calculator (selected south facing, Kildare, someone always at home, 5kw system for €540 saving) it would work out about €900 saving per year. That's less than 15% of your spend.

Edit 2***
https://www.photovoltaicsystems.ie/much-electricity-domestic-solar-panels-produce/
I you go by their sums they reckon a 4kw system can generate 3400kwh per year so and 8kw one like you've been quoted would net you 6400kwh.
That's 19% of your usage.
I've just used a unit rate of 18c for these barstool calculations btw.

These people shouldn't be able to get away with making such outrageous claims.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-49566130

KCross · 24-10-2019 11:56AM

digzy wrote: »

Looking for a bit of free info please
I live in an old house. I've new windows and attic insulated. I've the air to water system installed. My electricity bills have been seriously steep (6k over last 9 months). hence I'm looking into other sources of electricity.

There's something seriously wrong there. How could any heat pump use €6k over the last 9 months when a significant portion of that was during the summer where it wouldnt be running at all except for hot water.

Or did you mean 6k units of electricity?

How big is the house?
Do you have underfloor heating or old steel rads?
Is the house warm?
Is it draughty? Did you change the external doors when you did the windows? Are they well sealed?
Do you have night rate electricity?

digzy wrote: »

I was told by the rep/engineer that I'd be shaving 60% off the bills which I'd be happy with. However, I'm hearing that these panels may not have that kind of payback.

Do the sums add up?

He's bull****ting.

Your energy use is most likely your A2W heat pump and that will be running hardest at the point where Solar will be generating the least.... winter and night time.

Solar is not your solution here. Fixing your ridiculous electricity bill is what you need to do. Get a meter on your heat pump and monitor what it is doing and try to figure out why its consuming all that electricity. You will be looking at an early expensive compressor failure if you dont address that first.

unkel · 24-10-2019 12:44PM

It looks like your house wasn't suitable for an A2W heat pump. Not airtight enough. Not enough insulation. Who advised you to buy one?

That quote is ridiculous BTW, and the array (8kW) is far bigger than is legally allowed by the ESB (max 6kW), some clown of an SEAI improved installer giving you that quote.

By all means use the SEAI grant to its max and get a 4kW system with a small battery (these are expensive but you can easily add more batteries in a few years time when hopefully they get a lot cheaper) installed for about €5.5k (and consider going 6kW if they quote you a reasonable upgrade cost)

air · 24-10-2019 12:52PM

He's obviously on 3 phase so up to 11kW is allowed without any fuss IIRC.
In any case you could connect more panel capacity than the inverter peak output (within the inverter voltage limits) with no possible impact to ESB Networks.
Obviously the grant tops out at 4kW.
I think everyone is in agreement that PV is not the answer to the problems with the house though.

unkel · 24-10-2019 01:13PM

air wrote: »

He's obviously on 3 phase

Obviously?

How many old private houses in Ireland are on 3 phase? Wouldn't be too many I'd have thought. Or maybe the quote included getting connected to 3-phase

air · 24-10-2019 01:16PM

unkel wrote: »

Obviously?

How many old private houses in Ireland are on 3 phase? Wouldn't be too many I'd have thought. Or maybe the quote included getting connected to 3-phase

Well the quote mentioned a 3 phase inverter, I'm giving the installer the benefit of the doubt and assuming they wouldn't quote for one on a house with a single phase supply.
Perhaps I'm too generous.

unkel · 24-10-2019 01:20PM

Ha I clearly missed that. My eyes were distraught by that €18,500 figure

digzy · 24-10-2019 11:54PM

Cheers guys. Many thanks for the advice.
I bought a large house a few years back. 6000 sq feet. As I said, I’ve new windows, attic insulated.
Didn’t insulate the ground floor as it would’ve involved tearing up all the floors.

We’re a pretty avg family in terms of behavior.
Just wondering to whom I can turn to sort things out. I appreciate the advice here but I think I need to get someone on site. I’ve had to install 3 phase power to power the air2water system. I’m based in tipperary.

I’m getting the impression that I’m getting ridden with the quote, which being honest I wouldn’t mind if I got the payback.

The system was designed by ‘ash grove’ think they’re based in north cork. Plumbers work was top class too.

It’s a thermia pump

unkel · 25-10-2019 12:15AM

You're a bit vague. Was the A2W system already in the house when you bought it?

digzy · 25-10-2019 07:36AM

unkel wrote: »

You're a bit vague. Was the A2W system already in the house when you bought it?

No. House was oil fired when I bought it. So went a2w before we moved in

unkel · 25-10-2019 08:47AM

And who advised you to do that, did you get proper survey done that proved your house was suitable for an A2W setup?

antoinolachtnai · 25-10-2019 09:49AM

That is really high consumption. Is this all driven by the winter months or is it high year round?

I think it would help you if you could understand your consumption better before making (another) big investment.

jspuds · 25-10-2019 12:28PM

digzy wrote: »

No. House was oil fired when I bought it. So went a2w before we moved in

hi, sent you a PM

Northumberland · 26-10-2019 10:17PM

Hi anyone out there using Pylontech batteries with a Solis inverter?

The manual for the Pylontech states max charge voltage 54 v and charge current 25A (up to a max of 50 amp) - but that is surely for just one battery? I have two connected of course in parallel.

I had assumed that the batteries own BMS would know it was connected to a second battey, and the Solis as well would control the show, all connected up as it is with monitoring cables, but now not so sure. 53 volts at 25 amps is 1.3 kW. When the sun is shining, I see that just 1.25 kW is going to charge my batteries, but often an additional 1 to 2kW is being given away free to the grid. Am I right in thinking that with two batteries in parallel I could charge them together with 2.5kW, or 50 amps?

quentingargan · 26-10-2019 11:22PM

Northumberland wrote: »

Hi anyone out there using Pylontech batteries with a Solis inverter?

The manual for the Pylontech states max charge voltage 54 v and charge current 25A (up to a max of 50 amp) - but that is surely for just one battery? I have two connected of course in parallel.

I had assumed that the batteries own BMS would know it was connected to a second battey, and the Solis as well would control the show, all connected up as it is with monitoring cables, but now not so sure. 53 volts at 25 amps is 1.3 kW. When the sun is shining, I see that just 1.25 kW is going to charge my batteries, but often an additional 1 to 2kW is being given away free to the grid. Am I right in thinking that with two batteries in parallel I could charge them together with 2.5kW, or 50 amps?

Yes - with two batteries, the charge current should be able to go to 50A. Is there a comms link cable between the two batteries? The comms cable from the inverter goes to the top left port of the first battery. Then a link cable goes from the bottom right port of the first battery to the top right port of the second one. Make sure dip switches are the same on both battreries.

If you use advanced settings - storage mode - you should then look at control parameters. It should show max charge current at 50A.

It may sometimes show 20A (10a per battery). This happens if the battery is below 10 degrees, and also under some other circumstances.

Northumberland · 27-10-2019 07:49AM

Thanks so much Quentingargan, your post solved my problem. My installer had wrongly connected the comms cable between the bottom left port of the first battery and to the top left port of the second battery. I just re-connected given your instructions (and following the photos in the battery manual - although the manual is pretty bad and no description in wording), but I turned batteries back on and it worked. There is now a charge of 2.5kW going in to the 2 batteries together, equivalent of about 50 amps which seems perfect, and which will allow the system to operate more efficiently during the few hours of sunshine at this time of the year!

One more question for you. I now finally have my system set up to power an 'essential load' in the event of a power cut (which we have in my area due to the ESB overhead cable running through a forest). If I want to ensure that I have at least 50% charge in my batteries when a storm is expected, is the easiest way to do this to just turn both batteries 'off' using the rocker switch on each when a storm is expected (and when the batteries have at least 50% charge)?, and then to turn batteries back ON if the power cut actually happens (will the inverter be able to 'power up' from the batteries?)

quentingargan · 27-10-2019 10:10AM

Northumberland wrote: »

If I want to ensure that I have at least 50% charge in my batteries when a storm is expected, is the easiest way to do this to just turn both batteries 'off' using the rocker switch on each when a storm is expected (and when the batteries have at least 50% charge)?, and then to turn batteries back ON if the power cut actually happens (will the inverter be able to 'power up' from the batteries?)

You can set this in the advanced settings. Are you familiar with these? PM me if you want the password.

The exact menu options changed depending on whether you have HMI version above 20.

You go to advanced settings - storage energy set - battery select. Press enter to leave it on pylon.

You get an option for over discharge SOC. You can temporarily set this to 50%. Normally it is between 12% and 20%. You then get an option for force charge SOC. This can be set to 48% to prevent the inverter discharging the batteries during long dull spells.

See section 38/39 of manual. If you don't have the inverter manual, PM me.

Glad you got the other issue resolved.

Northumberland · 27-10-2019 10:32AM

Thanks a lot, I will try that. Yes I am familiar with advanced settings and with the two different passwords. I have to request an upgrade stick from the Ginlong UK distributor and update my software sometime soon.

AidenL · 27-10-2019 11:15AM

I know 6kw is the max allowed to be installed by the ESB.

Is there anyway to install more, space permitting? One installer suggested to me that they could go over 6?

I think in the UK, permission is achievable to exceed their 4kw limit.

quentingargan · 27-10-2019 11:20AM

Max inverter is 6kw. You can typically put 6kw panels onto a 5kw hybrid inverter and put another 1.2kw onto a 1kw inverter on the same site. So max panels is 7.2kw.

If you want to go beyond that, it'll cost you more than its worth to have G10 relays and approvals.

AidenL · 27-10-2019 11:23AM

quentingargan wrote: »

Max inverter is 6kw. You can typically put 6kw panels onto a 5kw hybrid inverter and put another 1.2kw onto a 1kw inverter on the same site. So max panels is 7.2kw.

If you want to go beyond that, it'll cost you more than its worth to have G10 relays and approvals.

That’s great, thanks for the clarity.

My house is mostly south facing, I thought it might be useful to have maybe 2 panels facing both east and west for morning and evening maximum benefit, so 1.2kw would suit nicely.

quentingargan · 27-10-2019 11:30AM

AidenL wrote: »

That’s great, thanks for the clarity.

My house is mostly south facing, I thought it might be useful to have maybe 2 panels facing both east and west for morning and evening maximum benefit, so 1.2kw would suit nicely.

Yes, but those four panels will need optimisers to ensure that the darker ones don't affect the brigher ones. Not a big issue - optimisers are cheap enough.

AidenL · 27-10-2019 11:31AM

quentingargan wrote: »

Yes, but those four panels will need optimisers to ensure that the darker ones don't affect the brigher ones. Not a big issue - optimisers are cheap enough.

Is it worth the hassle and additional expense, in your opinion?

unkel · 27-10-2019 12:25PM

Optimisers are about €50-€60 per panel. Up to you to make your mind up. Alternatively you could go for a dual or triple string MPPT inverter, then you won't need optimisers for your E or W strings

Northumberland · 27-10-2019 12:32PM

quentingargan wrote: »

You can set this in the advanced settings. Are you familiar with these? PM me if you want the password.

The exact menu options changed depending on whether you have HMI version above 20.

You go to advanced settings - storage energy set - battery select. Press enter to leave it on pylon.

You get an option for over discharge SOC. You can temporarily set this to 50%. Normally it is between 12% and 20%. You then get an option for force charge SOC. This can be set to 48% to prevent the inverter discharging the batteries during long dull spells.

See section 38/39 of manual. If you don't have the inverter manual, PM me.

Glad you got the other issue resolved.

Thanks, my HDMI is version 14, so I had better request an Upgrade stick and upgrade the HDMI software. I followed your instructions (and I do have the manual), but when I get to over-discharge SOC the max I can set it to is 30%, and when I enter that I get no 'force charge setting screen at all. I see force charge in the manual ok, but have never seen it on my screen.

reklamos · 27-10-2019 12:48PM

quentingargan wrote: »

Yes, but those four panels will need optimisers to ensure that the darker ones don't affect the brigher ones. Not a big issue - optimisers are cheap enough.

Before going with optimizers, check your inverter. Solis RHI ones are Dual MPPT so you can connect those panels to second MPPT without optimizers

KCross · 27-10-2019 01:09PM

quentingargan wrote: »

Yes, but those four panels will need optimisers to ensure that the darker ones don't affect the brigher ones. Not a big issue - optimisers are cheap enough.

If you have a dual string inverter could you connect both East and West facing panels to one input and the south facing panels to the other input and it would happily manage the east/west panels or would they interfere with each other?

Or would you need a triple string inverter?

AidenL · 27-10-2019 01:14PM

quentingargan wrote: »

Yes, but those four panels will need optimisers to ensure that the darker ones don't affect the brigher ones. Not a big issue - optimisers are cheap enough.

unkel wrote: »

Optimisers are about €50-€60 per panel. Up to you to make your mind up. Alternatively you could go for a dual or triple string MPPT inverter, then you won't need optimisers for your E or W strings

reklamos wrote: »

Before going with optimizers, check your inverter. Solis RHI ones are Dual MPPT so you can connect those panels to second MPPT without optimizers

I just measured up there, I think id only get one panel on each side of the outcrop.

My house faces South West, and I have 6m clear space one side of the living room outcrop, on the east side, and 4m clear space on the west side, and that's leaving 0.5m clear from the gables.

I guess a South West orientation would be decent? Maybe id not need the extra 4 panels.

Could I install twenty 615 watt panels, with a 5kw ? It would put me a little over the ESB allowance, but is that within margin of error, or is it a total nono?

Finally, a big question for me - one installer has said no issues fitting in the attic, no heat or fire issues. Another installer has said he would much prefer to install in my steeltech shed, citing more space, less heat issues and better for the inverter. Hes quoting around 1000 euros more, but he would have trenching, armoured cable and so on included. Its around 2m from the side gable of my house. He taken for fireproof board as a backing wall for the equipment and so on.

Any opinions on this, safety, worth the additional cost, etc? Attic is insulated, but it still gets cold in winter and hot in summer though. To be fair, so does the shed, same , or approximately the same temp extremes in all honesty, the shed not heated, so would run to freezing and below in winter, which I believe has an effect on batteries not charging and not discharging.

Id appreciate thoughts on pros and cons on the tow locations please?

joujoujou · 27-10-2019 01:41PM

Hello everybody. Long time lurker, first time poster here.

What say you, good or bad?

reklamos · 27-10-2019 02:06PM

AidenL wrote: »

Could I install twenty 615 watt panels, with a 5kw ? It would put me a little over the ESB allowance, but is that within margin of error, or is it a total nono?

Finally, a big question for me - one installer has said no issues fitting in the attic, no heat or fire issues. Another installer has said he would much prefer to install in my steeltech shed, citing more space, less heat issues and better for the inverter. Hes quoting around 1000 euros more, but he would have trenching, armoured cable and so on included. Its around 2m from the side gable of my house. He taken for fireproof board as a backing wall for the equipment and so on.

Any opinions on this, safety, worth the additional cost, etc? Attic is insulated, but it still gets cold in winter and hot in summer though. To be fair, so does the shed, same , or approximately the same temp extremes in all honesty, the shed not heated, so would run to freezing and below in winter, which I believe has an effect on batteries not charging and not discharging.

Id appreciate thoughts on pros and cons on the tow locations please?

I assume 615 is a typo and should be 315Watt.
Would you have space for 20panels as it does not seem that you do? I would also go for less but higher wattage ones. I'm not sure on ESB part here but because they would be spread over multiple directions you would never get to 6kWh. SEAI grant could be a show stopper if you plan apply for it.

The location of the inverter depends on the ambient temperature. I have mine installed in the attic that is insulated and facing south. The inverter itself is passive cooled and in July it was getting hot. I could barely hold my hand on the radiator for more than few seconds. The internal monitoring was going close to 70 degrees and that was too hot for me. I have installed 2 fans temperature controlled fans that spin up once it goes above 38 and now the temp rarely goes above 40.
I'm not convinced about shed as it does not really solve the problem. The temperature would fluctuate there even more and humidity would be higher.

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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