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Do you believe in God?

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    #932
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,355 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Yes it would. Can’t be explained so.

    Well from a scientific point of view nothing can be created or destroyed it only changes. The current belief is that the death of current existence will result in a similar event as the big bang. The debate is how it is going to happen but it doesn't require a god the same way wind doesn't require god.

    It always puzzles me about people with acquired brain injury and where they go when they die. You can get a brain injury and have absolutely no empathy as a result. You have the same memories but you just don't care about people and your personality is totally different. Do you still go to heaven? Are you the person you became or do you return to who you were. What if the injury made you angry and violent and you kill somebody?


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    #933
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Yes it would. Can’t be explained so.

    Can't be explained so...God?

    I prefer: Can't be explained...we need to learn more. This is the approach that has historically led to advances in knowledge. The other just leads to superstition, credulity and ignorance.


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    #934
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Yes it would. Can’t be explained so.

    If we can have something from nothing, then the Universe can come from nothing.

    Saying it must come from something, so we invent God and then say God came from nothing makes things more complicated without actually solving the "something from nothing" problem.


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    #935
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,174 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    ...It always puzzles me about people with acquired brain injury and where they go when they die. You can get a brain injury and have absolutely no empathy as a result. You have the same memories but you just don't care about people and your personality is totally different. Do you still go to heaven? Are you the person you became or do you return to who you were. What if the injury made you angry and violent and you kill somebody?

    Such a person might fare out better under the doctrine of Sola fide and should therefore consider converting to a hardarse Protestant denomination like Presbyterian. :D


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    #936
    Stuxnet
    Registered Users Posts: 3,735 ✭✭✭Stuxnet


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    and the after life will have an after after life.

    And is it reserved for only homosapians, what about the other previous versions of humans, ?


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    #937
    Ace Attorney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭Ace Attorney


    No, i dont, born into a Christian family and used to follow the old routine of mass etc. But the constant scandels in the church and the history of church and state that had a hold on ireland 50 60 years ago with the laundries etc, just made me feel disillusioned with religion altogether. Religion seems to be the fuel for wars all throughout history and even modern times.


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    #938
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Ace Attorney wrote: »
    No, i dont, born into a Christian family and used to follow the old routine of mass etc. But the constant scandels in the church and the history of church and state that had a hold on ireland 50 60 years ago with the laundries etc, just made me feel disillusioned with religion altogether. Religion seems to be the fuel for wars all throughout history and even modern times.

    The Catholic church or any religion don't have the ultimate truth and they're not the gatekeepers of god or the definition of god, despite what they may think. Don't let the antics of the church stop you from being open to metaphysics or spirituality of any kind.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qddYjS84Dw


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    #939
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,174 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Seanachai wrote: »
    The Catholic church or any religion don't have the ultimate truth and they're not the gatekeepers of god or the definition of god, despite what they may think. Don't let the antics of the church stop you from being open to metaphysics or spirituality of any kind.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qddYjS84Dw

    Indeed not. For example, the dreadlock Rasta-man worships the same Judaeo-Christian god (he also worships some old Ethiopian emperor, but that would be an ecumenical matter....) and they call him "Jah", short for "Jahweh" or "Yahweh". Oddly enough, the Rastafarian name for god is used every Sunday at Roman Catholic Mass in the form of the word "hallelujah", or "Praise Ye, Jahweh!". :D


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    #940
    Ace Attorney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭Ace Attorney


    I am open, but believe that man made religions arent the answer anymore.


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    #941
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,174 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Ace Attorney wrote: »
    I am open, but believe that man made religions arent the answer anymore.

    Religions are like spanners - pick the one that suits you best and get on with the job of living. The Halfords Advanced 150-piece socket set of religions is probably Gnosticism. Or maybe not. :D


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    #942
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    storker wrote: »
    Don't be silly, God only takes the credit for the good stuff. The bad stuff is never anything to do with him. Supreme being or just common-or-garden politician? :)

    I think He took credit for destroying the world with a flood and Sodom and Gomorrah with fire and brimstone.

    Could equally have had nothing to do with Him and He is a political genius:)


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    #943
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Seanachai wrote: »
    The Catholic church or any religion don't have the ultimate truth and they're not the gatekeepers of god or the definition of god, despite what they may think. Don't let the antics of the church stop you from being open to metaphysics or spirituality of any kind.

    That's not how it usually works. People are generally raised by folks they trust to believe in a particular religion, say Catholicism in Ireland. They soak it up as small children, just as they soak up language, dialect, their families attitudes to things like politics. If something shakes that faith, like the antics of the hierarchy, they are losing a default view, one they did not adopt based on a reasoned examination of evidence or logical argument.

    Having lost it, the barrier to adopting some other religion is much higher for some people. Fool me once etc.


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    #944
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    That's not how it usually works. People are generally raised by folks they trust to believe in a particular religion, say Catholicism in Ireland. They soak it up as small children, just as they soak up language, dialect, their families attitudes to things like politics. If something shakes that faith, like the antics of the hierarchy, they are losing a default view, one they did not adopt based on a reasoned examination of evidence or logical argument.

    Having lost it, the barrier to adopting some other religion is much higher for some people. Fool me once etc.

    I agree about the reluctance in adopting another religion, but in my experience even those with serious issues with the church can still be open to spirituality. Some atheists I know have more authentic spirituality than religious or new-age spiritual type people I've met.


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    #945
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Seanachai wrote: »
    Some atheists I know have more authentic spirituality than religious or new-age spiritual type people I've met.

    As an atheist, I am not sure what spirituality even means.


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    #946
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,336 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    As an atheist, I am not sure what spirituality even means.

    I suppose for me it means an exploration of the human condition, an immersion in those attributes such as human subjectivity and well being and consciousness, to see what it's limits are, what other altered states it might be possible to attain or experience from it and so forth. I guess it is an exploration of what it means to be human, and what the limits of that definition can turn out to be, and what onus being human might place on us morally and ethically and so on.

    The word for periods of it's history was very often used in an entirely non-religious context. It is not a word I use readily, but I do not rush to reject it either.


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    #947
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,411 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The Nal wrote: »
    Its very difficult to take religion seriously when you have insanity - genuine insanity - like this still happening.

    Parents complain over priest's plans to pay 'exorcism' visits

    "He has told parents from Scoil Mhaodhoig Poulfur that he expects them to attend Sunday mass in the run-up to first communion next May and, according to a spokesman for the diocese of Ferns, said he will be "visiting their houses for rosaries and exorcisms".

    What a díckhead.
    The exorcism stuff is a bit mad all right, but speaking as an atheist, the priest is dead right on the other stuff. If people want to take part in the church ceremonies, he is 100% right to ensure that they're taking it seriously and committing to the whole ethos.


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    #948
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    As an atheist, I am not sure what spirituality even means.

    As a Christian I'm not sure what it means either :)


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    #949
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,006 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Ace Attorney wrote: »
    No, i dont, born into a Christian family and used to follow the old routine of mass etc. But the constant scandels in the church and the history of church and state that had a hold on ireland 50 60 years ago with the laundries etc, just made me feel disillusioned with religion altogether. Religion seems to be the fuel for wars all throughout history and even modern times.

    Can I ask was it the history of the church and the scandals that stopped you believing in a 'god'?

    Or just a belief that it was very unlikely?

    Or a bit of both?


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    #950
    Ace Attorney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭Ace Attorney


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Can I ask was it the history of the church and the scandals that stopped you believing in a 'god'?

    Or just a belief that it was very unlikely?

    Or a bit of both?

    growing up i had no choice but to practice Christianity as it was what my parents brought me up to be with confirmation, confessions etc. But as i got older and informed, i didnt really believe in christ anymore, the way the state scandals came out about the Magdalene laundries, tuam babies, buggery and that the state knowingly committed and alligned itself with religion way back is frightening that a country can become so enveloped with practices that involved putting women into homes and separated from their baby, and babies disposed of into septic tanks and mass graves like they were nothing. that was the straw that broke the camels back for me. it was the push i needed to denounce my faith. i think it was already happening tho.
    so yea, in short, maybe a bit of both.


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    #951
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Ace Attorney wrote: »
    growing up i had no choice but to practice Christianity as it was what my parents brought me up to be with confirmation, confessions etc. But as i got older and informed, i didnt really believe in christ anymore, the way the state scandals came out about the Magdalene laundries, tuam babies, buggery and that the state knowingly committed and alligned itself with religion way back is frightening that a country can become so enveloped with practices that involved putting women into homes and separated from their baby, and babies disposed of into septic tanks and mass graves like they were nothing. that was the straw that broke the camels back for me. it was the push i needed to denounce my faith. i think it was already happening tho.
    so yea, in short, maybe a bit of both.

    I had to go to mass up until I was sixteen, I still remember the morning I said that I wasn't going anymore. I used to like sitting with my nan and the banter she had with the auld fellas at the back. I would get up and dance when the music came on and it'd crack her up, but my parents put a stop to that.

    Those modern scandals are the tip of an iceberg stretching back to the foundation of the church. Maybe it's because I grew up in the countryside but there was still a pagan element to my Catholic upbringing, I never saw the church as representing god. They were just dour authoritarian men reciting scripture and going through the motions.

    I used to devour any books I could get on Irish legends and also fantasy comics, the writers and artists of these often put in references to esoteric teachings. I had an inkling that there was a lot more to the picture than they were feeding us in mass and school. When I got into music more as a teenager I found a spirituality in that too.


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    #952
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    As an atheist, I am not sure what spirituality even means.

    A sense of wonder and appreciation for existence I suppose, even in the absence of belief in god.


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    #953
    daveorourke77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭daveorourke77


    I've chosed to remain open minded about the existence of a higher power.

    As a species we cannot prove or disprove the existence of a god at the current time. When it comes down to it both sides only have faith in their own side of the argument.

    On this basis I believe that agnosticism is the best approach.


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    #954
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,464 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    daveorourke77 wrote: »
    I've chosed to remain open minded about the existence of a higher power.

    As a species we cannot prove or disprove the existence of a god at the current time. When it comes down to it both sides only have faith in their own side of the argument.

    On this basis I believe that agnosticism is the best approach.

    Its the only reasonable approach.


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    #955
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,336 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    daveorourke77 wrote: »
    As a species we cannot prove or disprove the existence of a god at the current time.

    In fairness though, this is also true of any number of things, and could be true of anything you simply make up right now on the spot. Strangely though we do not go around worrying about our inability to prove or disprove any of those.

    Rather we recognise an unsubstantiated hypothesis when we hear one and we dismiss it. Most of the time. For some reason gods and religions are expected to be exempt of this standard.

    So it is not so much that I believe there is a god, disbelieve there is a god, or believe there is no god. Rather I have dismissed the hypothesis as the unsubstantiated bunk it is, and I live my life pretty much as if I had never been presented it at all.

    In other words, it is not that I disbelieve the hypothesis but that at this time due to lack of evidence the hypothesis is FUNCTIONALLY non-existent to me.


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    #956
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,114 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    daveorourke77 wrote: »
    On this basis I believe that agnosticism is the best approach.

    Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive!


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    #957
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    daveorourke77 wrote: »
    On this basis I believe that agnosticism is the best approach.

    Agnosticism is identical in every practical way to atheism except that agnostics think they get to look down on atheists.


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    #958
    The One Doctor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    This is simply not true. We don't need to believe in an imaginary being to treat others with respect or ourselves. We do not need to believe in archaic books to have morals and empathy towards others. To say that society is better because of organised religion is simply not true. In fact many heinous acts here in Ireland and around the world have been committed by religious people and ordained people. Women persecuted, children raped, babies thrown into septic tanks or sold off to the highest bidders in the USA and all covered up by the Vatican. I don't believe in any any god that another man tells me is there without proof and proper proof not blind faith and I am a good person, law abiding and I treat people with kindness empathy and respect because it's the right thing to do not because a book written by men thousands of years ago tells me to.


    Plenty of non-religious organisations have done as bad or worse. Religion has a place in our society and as a former atheist turned agnostic, I believe that the blindness of atheism is more damaging to our civilisation than the reassurance of religion.


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    #959
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »
    In other words, it is not that I disbelieve the hypothesis but that at this time due to lack of evidence the hypothesis is FUNCTIONALLY non-existent to me.

    It rather depends on the God being floated. For most day-to-day gods that actual people believe in, I really do actively believe they do not exist. Most are like someone calling you to say there is a live dinosaur stomping around your garden right now. No, I believe that that is not true.

    There are some gods which are carefully constructed to be undisprovable, like Russell's teapot, but you know what? I actively disbelieve in orbiting teapots, too.


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    #960
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    It rather depends on the God being floated. For most day-to-day gods that actual people believe in, I really do actively believe they do not exist. Most are like someone calling you to say there is a live dinosaur stomping around your garden right now. No, I believe that that is not true.

    There are some gods which are carefully constructed to be undisprovable, like Russell's teapot, but you know what? I actively disbelieve in orbiting teapots, too.

    There's a debate within paganism that the representation of the gods as actual beings is false and that they were only ever intended to be archetypes representing aspects of the human psyche and natural processes. When you examine the myths and even the fairytales there's a lot of hidden meaning in them that's been overlooked.



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    #961
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,722 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Agnosticism is identical in every practical way to atheism except that agnostics think they get to look down on atheists.

    I'm agnostic and I admire and respect atheists, I wish I was brave enough to leave behind the happily ever after fairytale


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