Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

CelticRambler wrote: »

Just listening to Johnson's statement to the House (am a little bit behind). So many references to "our European friends" - five or six, so far - when only a few weeks ago he was ranting about "surrender" to these same Europeans.

It's also striking how the Johnson (and others) are talking about this as an "excellent" deal. Any normal person would recognise that after three years of difficult negotiations, the resulting deal would rarely be better than "satisfactory" or "the best that could realistically be expected". The attitude on the EU side comes across as more genuine. Whenever anyone tries to pass something off as "great" or "excellent" you can usually be sure that there's something dodgy about it ...

He has always called them 'our European friends and partners.' It's very grating.

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/19/one-way-explain-nigel-farages-behaviour-becoming-remainer/



Brexiteers are turning on each other now as predicted by me in earlier iterations of the thread.

The only thing brexiteers can agree on is that the want to leave, but the gulf between left and right (and Russian owned useful idiots) is so wide as to what Brexit means and how to achieve it, 3 years later on those divides are still there.

The moment the UK leaves the EU, Mr. Farage becomes redundant.

His whole career has been solely based around the EU and being an MEP.

He has proven on multiple occasions to be deeply unpalatable to the voting public to be elected into a Westminster seat.

Even his side-projects - Brexit Party Limited, his LBC show, his public speaking, his opinion pieces - rely on his involvement with the EU and cease to be relevant upon any exit from same.

He is a career rabble rouser who ironically is going to be a victim of his own success - albeit with a generous MEP pension and an EU passport.

Listening to justine greening in commons, not sure shes indicated her position, but she doesnt sound like a deal supporter to me. I think thats another for no tbh.

GM228 wrote: »

And I believe Macron was quoted yesterday as saying there will be no extension, but I tend to go with Merkel, her statement would carry more weight I think.

Macron said he might not support extension, not that hed veto it. I know thats a very subtle difference but nuances can be significant here. Merkel sounded more emphatic so i'd definitely lean that way too.

GM228 wrote: »

Why is it fantasy that the EU would want to avoid a no deal? It's in nobody's interest to have no deal.

It’s starting to eat into EU time, money and focus.

Once you have to start implementing new budgets, plans, votes on future direction of the EU, the half-in/half-out status of the UK increases uncertainty. Possibly even makes things legally uncertain or difficult.

And if there’s realistically nothing to be gained by indefinite extensions, with no hope the UK will ever find a common path forward so long as they have the comfort of an extension and/or revoke at any time, then at some point you have to brace and take the hit in order to draw a line and move on.

Even a definite “that’s it lads” will focus minds - in much the same way the UK argued the threat of No Deal would focus the EU’s.

Pedro K wrote: »

I feel like a broken record in this thread asking this yet again, but does anybody know what time the big votes are to be?

Thanks in advance.

The Letwin amendment is (at this stage) likely to be the biggest vote today and due around 2.30 I believe.

from Chris Mason (BBC Pol. Reporter): Downing St on today: there is ‘no cut off point. It will run as long as MPs wish it to.’

afaik Benn act kicks in at 11pm, so that may be a sort of deadline....

This is a pretty good point made, I would imagine the majority of UK citizens are under the impression that the WA if approved is Brexit done, little do they realise:-

https://twitter.com/bengoldacre/status/1185455746097373189?s=19

GM228 wrote: »

This is a pretty good point made, I would imagine the majority of UK citizens are under the impression that the WA if approved is Brexit done, little do they realise:-

https://twitter.com/bengoldacre/status/1185455746097373189?s=19

Some mps actually seem to struggle with it too so what hope for the people? Majority of people dont particularly engage with politics in any meaningful way so easy to get that sort of spin in wide circulation.

Looking at BJ it's like looking at Trump

These men a cancer to the world

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Its just how the EU operates that ive seen, years and years doing trade deals, however long it takes to dot every i and cross every t. A slogan like "get brexit done" would be silly to them. Of course, there are EU members that would probably be ok with jettisoning uk asap, but they are a minority and wont rock the boat. Not yet anyway. Pragmatism rules, i dont know is that wishful thinking but its way i believe things are.

I’d tend to agree but this is a whole new scenario for the EU.

Up to now it had always been someone outside, looking to get in.
It didn’t matter how long it took because the third party was just that - a third party. Safely outside the confines of the EU with zero influence or power.

The UK are already inside, looking to get out.
They could pose a whole world of hassle for the EU if they were so inclined - some of the more vocal Brexiters have already threatened to do just that.
Veto anything and everything, refuse to pass budgets, refuse to appoint key postholders, disrupt and distract every function of the EU as much as they can.

They can’t afford to grant an extension then wait that out should the UK go full rogue.