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NBP part II

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  • #842
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,043 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Cush wrote: »
    The Dept/Minister appear reluctant to answer questions in relation to the mapping consultation

    Peter's question today to the Minister at the press conference on the submissions to the mapping consultation, went unanswered

    In his article in the SBP last Sunday he said ...

    https://twitter.com/peterodwyer1/status/1183307165257392128
    Peter O' Dwyer
    @peterodwyer1

    30 separate operators & representative groups have responded to govt’s call to submit details of their commercial broadband plans, @sundaybusiness can reveal.

    180 submissions in total. Could yet change # of homes in NBP & create further delay.
    Broadband plan under review after 130 responses to public consultation

    Department asked operators if they planned to install ‘new and substantive’ networks

    Peter O’Dwyer
    Oct 13, 2019

    The Department of Communications is reviewing the scale of the multibillion-euro National Broadband Plan (NBP) after receiving 180 responses to the consultation process on the number of premises to be included in the scheme.

    The department launched the public consultation earlier this year to finalise the number of homes and premises that will be covered by the NBP.

    It asked operators to submit any plans they had for “new and substantive” networks which will be implemented...

    https://www.businesspost.ie/news/broadband-plan-review-130-responses-public-consultation-454772?utm_source=twitter


  • #843
    clohamon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭clohamon


    The Cush wrote: »
    30 separate operators & representative groups have responded to govt’s call to submit details of their commercial broadband plans, @sundaybusiness can reveal.

    180 submissions in total. Could yet change # of homes in NBP & create further delay.

    I’m thinking @sundaybusiness isn't 'revealing' anything more than the PQ that @KOR101 already spotted earlier in the week.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111470322&postcount=794


  • #844
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    clohamon wrote: »
    I’m thinking @sundaybusiness isn't 'revealing' anything more than the PQ that @KOR101 already spotted earlier in the week.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111470322&postcount=794

    absolutely, no new news there.


  • #845
    KOR101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Just a rewrite of public info.

    KwJEgnl.jpg


  • #846
    Orebro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭Orebro


    Don’t they have to commit legally to rolling out in areas they say they will, otherwise the submission won’t be taken into consideration? If that’s the case then I’d imagine the vast majority of these submissions will go straight into the bin. (Hopefully they have a Junk email filter setup for mails from WISPs :-) )


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  • #847
    KOR101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Orebro wrote: »
    Don’t they have to commit legally to rolling out in areas they say they will, otherwise the submission won’t be taken into consideration?
    Yes, that's correct, but they are going to claim that they are already providing a service and then it become a legal argument based on EU laws relating to State aid. And, there is no point in arguning about the quality of the service they provide, because legal arguments will follow legal logic.


  • #848
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Yes, that's correct, but they are going to claim that they are already providing a service and then it become a legal argument based on EU laws relating to State aid. And, there is no point in arguning about the quality of the service they provide, because legal arguments will follow legal logic.

    wrong even eu wants every eu country to provide a future proof service. they have certains conditions on quality, this is nothing to do with ireland. most wisps wont sign up to these preconditions, my god even eir wouldnt stay in process cause of preconditions.


  • #849
    Pique
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭Pique


    Local driveway tarmac companies trying to throw a spanner in the works of a nationwide road project (which they didn't bid for in the first place, or band together to be able to afford to do so).


  • #850
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,081 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Read the bit next to that '234K' and then say whether or not anyone in their right mind could make that claim in all truthfulness.

    It is clearly just a gambit to delay things so they can get a few more suckers customers signed up before the fibre has an impact.

    The EU not only has future proofing but also reliability/stability of service requirements, so having 150Mb/s at 4 in the morning and 15Mb/s at 4 in the afternoon is not going to be acceptable. Imagine are well aware of this.

    "Muddy the waters", seems to be the way they like to work.


  • #851
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    the clever wisps saw they couldnt compete and joined up with a ftth provider to get into future game. those without the foresight or just too stubborn to adapt to changing market are saying they werent included in process. throughout time businesses that dont adapt to changing markets go bust , even big ones like thomas cook.


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  • #852
    KOR101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Read the bit next to that '234K' and then say whether or not anyone in their right mind could make that claim in all truthfulness.

    It is clearly just a gambit to delay things so they can get a few more suckers customers signed up before the fibre has an impact.
    I do agree with you on this, but I'm saying that on no legal basis.


  • #853
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    allanpkr wrote: »
    the clever wisps saw they couldnt compete and joined up with a ftth provider to get into future game. those without the foresight or just too stubborn to adapt to changing market are saying they werent included in process. throughout time businesses that dont adapt to changing markets go bust , even big ones like thomas cook.

    Most if not all of the WISPs that sell FTTH are part of the group that has responded to this consultation. Westnet are perhaps one of the only ones not complaining and I don't think they even see themselves as a WISP anymore.


  • #854
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »
    Most if not all of the WISPs that sell FTTH are part of the group that has responded to this consultation. Westnet are perhaps one of the only ones not complaining and I don't think they even see themselves as a WISP anymore.

    but are these so called wisps providing ftth or just selling broadband.i.e the infrastructure.


  • #855
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    allanpkr wrote: »
    but are these so called wisps providing ftth or just selling broadband.i.e the infrastructure.

    I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.


  • #856
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »
    I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.

    wisps may supply broadband , but are they saying they can supply the fibre cable along road. if not they are not in npb equation. my point was that wisps complaining that they ars going to lose business , is not revelevent. cause progress moves on , as they should have done. like westnet who are a great company and now provide through joint venture with siro ftth . they adapted to survive and grow. wisps that dont adapt dont survive.


  • #857
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,081 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    allanpkr wrote: »
    wisps may supply broadband , but are they saying they can supply the fibre cable along road. if not they are not in npb equation. my point was that wisps complaining that they ars going to lose business , is not revelevent. cause progress moves on , as they should have done. like westnet who are a great company and now provide through joint venture with siro ftth . they adapted to survive and grow. wisps that dont adapt dont survive.

    On what do you base that statement?
    What is there in the tender requirement for the NBP that specifies the connection must be over fibre cable to the premises?

    Answer: Nothing, as far as I am aware.


  • #858
    Orebro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭Orebro


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    On what do you base that statement?
    What is there in the tender requirement for the NBP that specifies the connection must be over fibre cable to the premises?

    Answer: Nothing, as far as I am aware.

    It specifies requirements that can only be delivered by FTTH.


  • #859
    Marlow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Orebro wrote: »
    It specifies requirements that can only be delivered by FTTH.

    Not true. Because it is already specified, that some of it will have to be delivered by wireless. No way around it.

    And the speeds also could be delivered using other transport. Next gen cable TV for example.

    /M


  • #860
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    On what do you base that statement?
    What is there in the tender requirement for the NBP that specifies the connection must be over fibre cable to the premises?

    Answer: Nothing, as far as I am aware.

    only that the specific requirements stated can only be delivered by ftth. happy now thars been explained.


  • #861
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    Marlow wrote: »
    Not true. Because it is already specified, that some of it will have to be delivered by wireless. No way around it.

    And the speeds also could be delivered using other transport. Next gen cable TV for example.

    /M
    lol and in future time travel will be possible in rural ireland.


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  • #862
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    also the places where some nbp will be delivered by wireless the mast will have to be pretty close to homes it delivers too it still has to reach required service. i cant see wisps putting up a few more 100 masts or be allowed to to cover rural ireland as a whole. i think realism needs to step in here.


  • #863
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,081 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    allanpkr wrote: »
    only that the specific requirements stated can only be delivered by ftth. happy now thars been explained.

    What specific requirements?

    You must know that it is possible to deliver 150Mb/s connections over fixed wireless at the present time.
    Also given the rate of change in the industry, it will be possible to deliver much higher speeds in future years, through the new technology in development and test.

    So, no, I am not aware of any specific requirements in the tender document that prevent the use of fixed wireless as a medium for the connections.
    In fact it is the stated intent that a percentage of the NBP connections, even if it is fibre based, will be by fixed wireless.

    What is not in the NBP of course is the concept that fixed wireless throughout rural Ireland for high speed broadband to all, is not at all practical.
    That is where it fails as it would not generate profit if done correctly, due to the costs of masts etc..

    Now maybe you understand.


  • #864
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    What specific requirements?

    You must know that it is possible to deliver 150Mb/s connections over fixed wireless at the present time.
    Also given the rate of change in the industry, it will be possible to deliver much higher speeds in future years, through the new technology in development and test.

    So, no, I am not aware of any specific requirements in the tender document that prevent the use of fixed wireless as a medium for the connections.
    In fact it is the stated intent that a percentage of the NBP connections, even if it is fibre based, will be by fixed wireless.



    What is not in the NBP of course is the concept that fixed wireless throughout rural Ireland for high speed broadband to all, is not at all practical.
    That is where it fails as it would not generate profit if done correctly, due to the costs of masts etc..

    Now maybe you understand.

    you must know the nbp ,s quality control doesnt mean you can supply 150mb/s at 5 am in morning only. i dont know any wispa at the moment that can give 150mb/s at peak if 150mb/s is what you are paying for. please i hope you can prove me wrong.
    HOWEVER your last comment that wispa fails on masts needed to give a definate supply to rural island at reasonable cost let alone numerous masts would also be allowed, makes your previous comment rather pandantic wouldnt you say.
    so now you maybe understand.


  • #865
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    allanpkr wrote: »
    you must know the nbp ,s quality control doesnt mean you can supply 150mb/s at 5 am in morning only. i dont know any wispa at the moment that can give 150mb/s at peak if 150mb/s is what you are paying for. please i hope you can prove me wrong.

    The problem with FWA is the backhaul to the remote mast, not the technology!


  • #866
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    The high horse brigade wrote: »
    The problem with FWA is the backhaul to the remote mast, not the technology!

    show me any wispa that delivers what customers are paying for at peak. its all i ask , not much really.


  • #867
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    allanpkr wrote: »
    show me any wispa that delivers what customers are paying for at peak. its all i ask , not much really.

    http://www.airwire.ie/index.php/products/jet

    Like I said, it's not the technology, it's the backhaul to remote masts


  • #868
    allanpkr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭allanpkr


    The high horse brigade wrote: »
    http://www.airwire.ie/index.php/products/jet

    Like I said, it's not the technology, it's the backhaul to remote masts

    im not sure i understand , are you saying wispas cant deliver that cause of backhaul to mast.
    and if so as a person whose is not tech wise , could you explain what backhaul to mask means in laymans terms.


  • #869
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    allanpkr wrote: »
    im not sure i understand , are you saying wispas cant deliver that cause of backhaul to mast.
    and if so as a person whose is not tech wise , could you explain what backhaul to mask means in laymans terms.

    Most rural masts are linked by licensed microwave and not multiple fibres. Then you have the fact that Comreg use licensed links as a cash cow. This is the biggest obstacle to FWA


  • #870
    Orebro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭Orebro


    Marlow wrote: »
    Not true. Because it is already specified, that some of it will have to be delivered by wireless. No way around it.

    And the speeds also could be delivered using other transport. Next gen cable TV for example.

    /M

    A very small number will be delivered by wireless, maybe 5% or so, if you happen to live out on the edge of the Sheeps Head peninsula or the like - it’s the exception rather than the rule.

    Marlow please stop muddying the waters!


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  • #871
    Marlow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Orebro wrote: »
    Marlow please stop muddying the waters!

    I am not. I am simply pointing a few facts out, that everyone ignores, because they do not fit into their rosy picture.

    The same as I pointed out, that the call for data by the department would backfire, that i wouldn't only be a few regional providers submitting data and that it would put the department in a pickle. But hey .. i pointed it out previously ... before the latest statements in news and elsewhere.

    You do not get rid of facts by silencing them.

    /M


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