BREXIT - The impact on importing cars?

Casati · 01-09-2019 11:16pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Battery died as I went to edit. Commercial vehicles if I'm correct will have to pay uk VAT buying as well as Irish VAT when importing

Yes and duty. We will be back importing from Japan or new at main dealers only

Even if there is a deal potential for VAT to be charged on the double which I think would end imports too

User1998 · 02-09-2019 12:14am

I wonder if VAT will be charged on the OMSP of the vehicle similar to VRT or will it be charged on the price you actually paid for the car. All other goods VAT is charged on the price you paid (correct me if I’m wrong)

Marcusm · 02-09-2019 7:50am

Mooooo wrote: »

Battery died as I went to edit. Commercial vehicles if I'm correct will have to pay uk VAT buying as well as Irish VAT when importing

If it’s a true commercial vehicle which has never passed through the ownership of a non-VAT registered person then it should be capable of being sold to a non-resident without U.K. VAT.

hi5 · 02-09-2019 9:32am

adunis wrote: »

Vat on purchase + shipping plus cousins duty
Then pay the vrt ?
21%+10%+vrt
Just like a US IMPORT ?

And EU duty on commercial vehicles over 2.5 litres is 22%.

Greengekko · 11-10-2019 10:46am

Hi all, after Brexit if the UK leave with a deal will VRT still increase compared to what it is now? I'm considering changing the car and if now is the time to do it or can I do it a few months later with a similar price without paying a fortune

September1 · 11-10-2019 10:48am

Greengekko wrote: »

Hi all, after Brexit if the UK leave with a deal will VRT still increase compared to what it is now? I'm considering changing the car and if now is the time to do it or can I do it a few months later with a similar price without paying a fortune

VRT might even decrease, but VAT and customs duty will be applicable on every import.

grogi · 11-10-2019 11:06am

September1 wrote: »

VRT might even decrease, but VAT and customs duty will be applicable on every import.

VRT won't decrese, as it is calculated on the market value.

If the cars are more expensive, there will be more VRT.

Greengekko · 11-10-2019 11:07am

I see, I'm looking at vw CC 2012, so I assume vrt import duties and vat will be based on the market value of such a car. To me this sounds like it could be far more expensive. This is also in the interest of the government to raise revenue and encourage car sales in Ireland

Esel · 11-10-2019 5:55pm

September1 wrote: »

VRT might even decrease, but VAT and customs duty will be applicable on every import.

If VAT has already been paid in the UK, there should be no VAT on importation here, as VAT cannot be charged twice.

I wonder how this aspect will play out.

Isambard · 11-10-2019 6:01pm

unless there's a deal in place, VAT paid abroad will be irrelevant.

September1 · 11-10-2019 6:35pm

Isambard wrote: »

unless there's a deal in place, VAT paid abroad will be irrelevant.

This is super unlikely, deal or no deal. If you import from Norway, which has super close relationship with EU, you have to pay both VAT and if car was not manufactured in EU there could be a duty as well.

Esel · 11-10-2019 7:44pm

VAT is an EU tax, and cannot be charged twice.

Whether that will change post-Brexit is an open question. My opinion is that it won't.

Isambard · 11-10-2019 8:29pm

September1 wrote: »

This is super unlikely, deal or no deal. If you import from Norway, which has super close relationship with EU, you have to pay both VAT and if car was not manufactured in EU there could be a duty as well.

not sure what you mean, but imports from the UK will be (in the case of No Deal) in the same boat (not literally in a boat)as those from the US or Japan. It won't be relevant what tax was paid , tax/duty will be levied any way.

Esel · 11-10-2019 8:33pm

Isambard wrote: »

not sure what you mean, but imports from the UK will be (in the case of No Deal) in the same boat (not literally in a boat)as those from the US or Japan. It won't be relevant what tax was paid , tax/duty will be levied any way.

Just for clarification, is this your opinion or based on knowledge?

mgn · 11-10-2019 8:33pm

Isambard wrote: »

not sure what you mean, but imports from the UK will be (in the case of No Deal) in the same boat (not literally in a boat)as those from the US or Japan. It won't be relevant what tax was paid , tax/duty will be levied any way.

What happens when the have a deal.

Sam Russell · 11-10-2019 9:00pm

Esel wrote: »

VAT is an EU tax, and cannot be charged twice.

Whether that will change post-Brexit is an open question. My opinion is that it won't.

No that is not so.

If you import a second hand car, the original VAT is dead, because it cannot be reclaimed by a VAT registered business. A commercial vehicle is different.

If the car is less than six months old or has done less than 6,000 km, it is liable to 23% VAT on the actual purchase price paid. The VAT paid by the original purchaser is irrelevant. So if you intend to buy a car less than six months old, make sure the VAT can be reclaimed.

Post (No Deal) Brexit, cars that cannot claim to be manufactured in the EU (Cert of Origin) which requires 55% EU components will be subject to 10% tariff. They will then be subject to VAT on the Purchase price plus cost of freight (ferry ticket), and the VRT.

I would say importing from the UK will not be economic, and as a result, 2nd hand prices here will rise.

mgn · 11-10-2019 9:10pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

No that is not so.

If you import a second hand car, the original VAT is dead, because it cannot be reclaimed by a VAT registered business. A commercial vehicle is different.

If the car is less than six months old or has done less than 6,000 km, it is liable to 23% VAT on the actual purchase price paid. The VAT paid by the original purchaser is irrelevant. So if you intend to buy a car less than six months old, make sure the VAT can be reclaimed.

Post (No Deal) Brexit, cars that cannot claim to be manufactured in the EU (Cert of Origin) which requires 55% EU components will be subject to 10% tariff. They will then be subject to VAT on the Purchase price plus cost of freight (ferry ticket), and the VRT.

I would say importing from the UK will not be economic, and as a result, 2nd hand prices here will rise.

Say i bring back a 2 or 3 year old car in say the second week of November, if there is a deal done this month, what am i likely to have to pay along with VRT.

Sam Russell · 11-10-2019 9:32pm

mgn wrote: »

Say i bring back a 2 or 3 year old car in say the second week of November, if there is a deal done this month, what am i likely to have to pay along with VRT.

The problem is a No Deal. A Deal Brexit would mean things say the same.

Casati · 11-10-2019 11:22pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The problem is a No Deal. A Deal Brexit would mean things say the same.

No deal likely means things stay the same as an extension will be forced*

A deal could likely mean vat being due but depend on what is agreed in any such deal

*maybe

Sam Russell · 12-10-2019 12:08am

Casati wrote: »

No deal likely means things stay the same as an extension will be forced*

A deal could likely mean vat being due but depend on what is agreed in any such deal

*maybe

I was talking about short term - that is for a purchase in November. No deal would be bad news as importing could mean tariff plus VAT plus VRT.

Obviously, longer term would depend on the terms of the deal struck. If there is a deal, there should be a transition period where current schemes remain as is.

road_high · 12-10-2019 12:30am

Casati wrote: »

No deal likely means things stay the same as an extension will be forced*

A deal could likely mean vat being due but depend on what is agreed in any such deal

*maybe

I think that would depend on the future trade deal? Should remain the same system with a deal for the few years transition period. Though nothing seems clear in any of this!!

September1 · 12-10-2019 11:27am

Isambard wrote: »

not sure what you mean, but imports from the UK will be (in the case of No Deal) in the same boat (not literally in a boat)as those from the US or Japan. It won't be relevant what tax was paid , tax/duty will be levied any way.

What I mean is that even if UK goes for softest brexit and becomes so closely integrated with EU as Switzerland or Norway there will be:
- customs duty unless car has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EUR.1_movement_certificate
- VAT charged on every car

As far as I know UK is not interested in softest deal with single market, customs union etc

To avoid paying VAT UK would have to be inside EU VAT area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax which has only three tiny areas outside EU that are included.

Isambard · 12-10-2019 10:54pm

Esel wrote: »

Just for clarification, is this your opinion or based on knowledge?

not sure what you mean either, but if there is no deal, then the UK will be treated exactly the same as other non EU countries. Anything less than that implies a deal is struck. Not an opinion at all.

trellheim · 13-10-2019 3:41pm

Cyprus and Malta will be the only other two left hand drive countries in the EU , not huge car markets either of them ...

Sam Russell · 13-10-2019 5:22pm

trellheim wrote: »

Cyprus and Malta will be the only other two left hand drive countries in the EU , not huge car markets either of them ...

How will Japanese imports go after the FTA comes into force?

trellheim · 13-10-2019 8:44pm

I dunno but you're not going to see Audi and BMW coming through the Japanese grey channel though

SupraSonic26 · 14-10-2019 3:00pm

Hey all, thining getting another supra imported from the UK, any advice on a import company and finance company? Or am i best just try get one up north and import it myself vrt ect.

CJhaughey · 14-10-2019 3:28pm

trellheim wrote: »

I dunno but you're not going to see Audi and BMW coming through the Japanese grey channel though

Tradecarview list nearly 5000 BMW and 1600 Audi models for sale in Japan.
I think you'll find that they are available from Japan quite easily in RHD.

baz_ctr · 15-10-2019 12:09am

Correct me if I am wrong here but will the new Nox charge coming into effect from January 1st 2020 not apply to all secondhand imports i.e UK/Japan/USA etc .Thats charged on scale depending on the nox (nitrate oxide rating ) and will be in addition to Vrt so if you were getting say 2014 VW golf diesel adds about 2k extra to the price on top of vrt .
I think been brought in to wipe out buying in cars with euro 6 emissions or below and help car dealers here .

ninty9er · 15-10-2019 9:34pm

Esel wrote: »

If VAT has already been paid in the UK, there should be no VAT on importation here, as VAT cannot be charged twice.

I wonder how this aspect will play out.

There are 3 VAT categories applicable to used vehicles.

1-Margin - this is a car owned by any entity which is not specifically entitled to claim VAT on it (e.g a lease company or car rental company) - currently a margin car imported from the UK is not liable to Irish VAT (I’ll come back to this)

2-Qualifying - this is a car first and only owned by any entity entitled to claim VAT on it (e.g a lease company or car rental company) - currently a qualifying car imported from the UK by a VAT registered entity for resale will be liable for Irish VAT as the Irish entity should reclaim the UK VAT. Post Brexit these vehicles should be invoiced excluding VAT for permanent export. Private individuals will not get the benefit of this as a zero VAT invoice cannot be issued to a private individuals. The car will become Margin before import of bought by an individual.

3-Commercial (See Qualifying and apply to commercial vehicles without the limitations) A commercial vehicle becomes Margin at the point it is sold to a non-VAT registered entity, otherwise it may change hands as often and to as many and varied VAT registered entities and remain Commercial for its entire life. Post Brexit these vehicles should be invoiced excluding VAT for permanent export.

Now, back to margin cars post Brexit; these cars have UK VAT locked in and were not previously liable to Irish VAT as VAT was paid in an EU member state. When the UK ceases to be an EU member state these cars (and any vehicle sold to a non-VAT entity) will be liable to Irish as well as UK VAT.

I have had clarification from Revenue that the 10% tariff will first be applied to the UK invoice and that 23% VAT will then apply to the total of the invoice and the tariff.

I’m sure that’s a clear as mud to most people, but it was cathartic to write it.

ninty9er · 15-10-2019 9:59pm

Esel wrote: »

If VAT has already been paid in the UK, there should be no VAT on importation here, as VAT cannot be charged twice.

I wonder how this aspect will play out.

There are 3 VAT categories applicable to used vehicles.

1-Margin - this is a car owned by any entity which is not specifically entitled to claim VAT on it (e.g a lease company or car rental company) - currently a margin car imported from the UK is not liable to Irish VAT (I’ll come back to this)

2-Qualifying - this is a car first and only owned by any entity entitled to claim VAT on it (e.g a lease company or car rental company) - currently a qualifying car imported from the UK by a VAT registered entity for resale will be liable for Irish VAT as the Irish entity should reclaim the UK VAT. Post Brexit these vehicles should be invoiced excluding VAT for permanent export. Private individuals will not get the benefit of this as a zero VAT invoice cannot be issued to a private individuals. The car will become Margin before import of bought by an individual.

3-Commercial (See Qualifying and apply to commercial vehicles without the limitations) A commercial vehicle becomes Margin at the point it is sold to a non-VAT registered entity, otherwise it may change hands as often and to as many and varied VAT registered entities and remain Commercial for its entire life. Post Brexit these vehicles should be invoiced excluding VAT for permanent export.

Now, back to margin cars post Brexit; these cars have UK VAT locked in and were not previously liable to Irish VAT as VAT was paid in an EU member state. When the UK ceases to be an EU member state these cars (and any vehicle sold to a non-VAT entity) will be liable to Irish as well as UK VAT.

I have had clarification from Revenue that the 10% tariff will first be applied to the UK invoice and that 23% VAT will then apply to the total of the invoice and the tariff.

I’m sure that’s a clear as mud to most people, but it was cathartic to write it.

adunis · 16-10-2019 11:07am

Here's what I hope will happen
England f@#*s of leaving a border down the Irish sea.
N.I. stays in the customs Union and a fudge says they are still in the UK as well.
Mr enterprising NI resident brings in a model3 for free cos he's an "englishman" and then sells it to me as an EU resident and I pay the exact same thing I do now importing my car from another EU jurisdiction.
Another scenario won't be even remotely economically viable

quokula · 16-10-2019 11:22am

adunis wrote: »

Here's what I hope will happen
England f@#*s of leaving a border down the Irish sea.
N.I. stays in the customs Union and a fudge says they are still in the UK as well.
Mr enterprising NI resident brings in a model3 for free cos he's an "englishman" and then sells it to me as an EU resident and I pay the exact same thing I do now importing my car from another EU jurisdiction.
Another scenario won't be even remotely economically viable

The English car (let's assume something UK manufactured rather than a Tesla - if it is a Tesla it will have been imported from Netherlands to UK and there may already have been import costs there) will have likely gotten even cheaper as they plan to decimate worker's rights and environmental standards. Any warranty would most probably be invalid, and it may also not be up to the European safety standards with regard to crash testing etc.

I think the need to avoid that situation (yes it's potentially good for you as a buyer but it's bad for the industry, and more importantly it's bad for every other industry where the same thing will happen) is why the talks have been going nowhere for so long.

Apologies if this drifted off topic a little, but it explains why I can't see a deal being agreed where the above situation will be the outcome for importing cars.

zilog_jones · 16-10-2019 11:33am

CJhaughey wrote: »

Tradecarview list nearly 5000 BMW and 1600 Audi models for sale in Japan.
I think you'll find that they are available from Japan quite easily in RHD.

But not many diesels, and even less manuals

Try searching for diesel + manual and you'll find zero for those two marques.
Personally I'd want neither, but general Irish attitudes will need to change towards automatics and petrols for modern Japanese imports to become more palatable.

You'll also find quite a few European cars are LHD there because it's seen as more authentic or exotic (i.e. they're mad), so that also reduces those figures by a few hundred.

MetzgerMeister · 16-10-2019 3:42pm

ninty9er wrote: »

There are 3 VAT categories applicable to used vehicles.

1-Margin - this is a car owned by any entity which is not specifically entitled to claim VAT on it (e.g a lease company or car rental company) - currently a margin car imported from the UK is not liable to Irish VAT (I’ll come back to this)

2-Qualifying - this is a car first and only owned by any entity entitled to claim VAT on it (e.g a lease company or car rental company) - currently a qualifying car imported from the UK by a VAT registered entity for resale will be liable for Irish VAT as the Irish entity should reclaim the UK VAT. Post Brexit these vehicles should be invoiced excluding VAT for permanent export. Private individuals will not get the benefit of this as a zero VAT invoice cannot be issued to a private individuals. The car will become Margin before import of bought by an individual.

3-Commercial (See Qualifying and apply to commercial vehicles without the limitations) A commercial vehicle becomes Margin at the point it is sold to a non-VAT registered entity, otherwise it may change hands as often and to as many and varied VAT registered entities and remain Commercial for its entire life. Post Brexit these vehicles should be invoiced excluding VAT for permanent export.

Now, back to margin cars post Brexit; these cars have UK VAT locked in and were not previously liable to Irish VAT as VAT was paid in an EU member state. When the UK ceases to be an EU member state these cars (and any vehicle sold to a non-VAT entity) will be liable to Irish as well as UK VAT.

I have had clarification from Revenue that the 10% tariff will first be applied to the UK invoice and that 23% VAT will then apply to the total of the invoice and the tariff.

I’m sure that’s a clear as mud to most people, but it was cathartic to write it.

Haven't seen you in an age! Welcome back

Greengekko · 17-10-2019 8:55pm

Will new VAT charges come into effect exactly the 1st of November? Or is this likely to come in a few months into the new year?

I think I've left buying a car a little late haha!

grogi · 18-10-2019 12:59am

Greengekko wrote: »

Will new VAT charges come into effect exactly the 1st of November? Or is this likely to come in a few months into the new year?

I think I've left buying a car a little late haha!

If there is a deal, there would be a transition period to negotiate further relationship. Big Britain would be officially out of eu, but technically still in.

traco · 18-10-2019 9:48am

Greengekko wrote: »

Will new VAT charges come into effect exactly the 1st of November? Or is this likely to come in a few months into the new year?

I think I've left buying a car a little late haha!

I thought I heard that if teh deal passes the status quo remains the same until 2020?? Maybe the end??? That was due to businesses not being ready if it were to come in on Nov 01. Don't quote me on that and maybe some one can confirm.

galwaytt · 18-10-2019 10:01am

quokula wrote: »

The English car (let's assume something UK manufactured rather than a Tesla - if it is a Tesla it will have been imported from Netherlands to UK and there may already have been import costs there) will have likely gotten even cheaper as they plan to decimate worker's rights and environmental standards. Any warranty would most probably be invalid, and it may also not be up to the European safety standards with regard to crash testing etc.

I think the need to avoid that situation (yes it's potentially good for you as a buyer but it's bad for the industry, and more importantly it's bad for every other industry where the same thing will happen) is why the talks have been going nowhere for so long.

Apologies if this drifted off topic a little, but it explains why I can't see a deal being agreed where the above situation will be the outcome for importing cars.

They're not going to come up with unique UK standards for cars and crash testing for the simple reason that the majority of UK production is for export. They're not going to have a line in the factory specifically with a UK-only spec: they'll make one spec to the most applicable - in other words, export-spec.

Greengekko · 18-10-2019 10:13am

grogi wrote: »

If there is a deal, there would be a transition period to negotiate further relationship. Big Britain would be officially out of eu, but technically still in.

So really there is no rush in importing a car? After the 31st (if a deal gets through parliament) and UK leave with a deal, further work will need to be done on trashing out how imports will actually be affected, which could take until the new year?

grogi · 18-10-2019 10:14am

galwaytt wrote: »

They're not going to come up with unique UK standards for cars and crash testing for the simple reason that the majority of UK production is for export. They're not going to have a line in the factory specifically with a UK-only spec: they'll make one spec to the most applicable - in other words, export-spec.

No, but the safety equipment, such as airbags, active braking systems etc, that would be required in EU market, might not be in UK-only cars.

grogi · 18-10-2019 10:15am

Greengekko wrote: »

So really there is no rush in importing a car? After the 31st (if a deal gets through parliament) and UK leave with a deal, further work will need to be done on trashing out how imports will actually be affected, which could take until the new year?

Think infinity. If there is a deal, there will be no new trade deal. The status quo will be maintained for a very long time...

IF there isn't a deal and we have hard brexit, the duties could apply immediately.

Greengekko · 18-10-2019 10:16am

grogi wrote: »

No, but the safety equipment, such as airbags, active braking systems etc, that would be required in EU market, might not be in UK-only cars.

To be honest that is not such a big deal as these items are already manufactured with such specification that they will pass eu certification standards easily.

Sexual Chocolate · 19-10-2019 8:57pm

Suppose it's fair to say that we know no more about things after today's comedy show in Westminister. Can't even say if we have another 3 months to bring anything in or not.

grogi · 19-10-2019 11:25pm

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Suppose it's fair to say that we know no more about things after today's comedy show in Westminister. Can't even say if we have another 3 months to bring anything in or not.

Johnson is playing hard to get again, but everyone else is tired of this nonsense. At this state UK is not capable of having a deal. So unless there are elections there will be no extension granted by EU.

Dia_Anseo · 20-10-2019 2:33am

Greengekko wrote: »

So really there is no rush in importing a car? After the 31st (if a deal gets through parliament) and UK leave with a deal, further work will need to be done on trashing out how imports will actually be affected, which could take until the new year?

The rush after the 31st will not be BREXIT but will be on the NoX tax on imported cars after 1st Jan 2020.

For instance a 2015 Ford Focus that is one of the most popular imported cars will get taxed 2700 euro for Nox tax alone on top of VRT of about 1800 euro.

That 2700 euro increase is a lot more than any VAT and excise duty.

Why is nobody kicking up a fuss about this??

Car99 · 20-10-2019 3:06am

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

The rush after the 31st will not be BREXIT but will be on the NoX tax on imported cars after 1st Jan 2020.

For instance a 2015 Ford Focus that is one of the most popular imported cars will get taxed 2700 euro for Nox tax alone on top of VRT of about 1800 euro.

That 2700 euro increase is a lot more than any VAT and excise duty.

Why is nobody kicking up a fuss about this??

Can you give a link to info how to see how the Figure of 2700 is calculated please.

grogi · 20-10-2019 3:28am

Car99 wrote: »

Can you give a link to info how to see how the Figure of 2700 is calculated please.

Focus 2015 is Euro 5 compliant. It limits the NOx emision to 18g/km (https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-emissions-standards/#Euro-5)

According to the VRT.ie site https://www.vrt.ie/faq/changes-vrt-budget-2020/, the surcharge for a car that do 18g/km would be calculated in following manner:

0-60mg - 60x5€ = €300
60-80mg - 20x15€ = €300
80-180mg - 100x25€ = €2500

€3100 surcharge... Juicy...

Of course Focus might do slightly less than that - but I am not sure where the revenue would get the figures.

Dia_Anseo · 20-10-2019 3:44am

Car99 wrote: »

Can you give a link to info how to see how the Figure of 2700 is calculated please.

BREXIT - The impact on importing cars?

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