Guy touches girls arm, faces 10 years for sexual assault

martingriff · 10-10-2019 7:21pm

Suttree wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this lad is not actually going to get 10 years in prison.

Just like you I will go out on a limb say your correct say he will not get jail time

ShauntaMetzel · 10-10-2019 7:23pm

Seriously? Convicted for touching her twice one at arm and second at waist for 10 years? Wait, I need some clarification.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 7:27pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Let's not derail the thread with the usual backwards and forwards, but I was highlighting the fact that you think a man can cause more harm than a woman. But, women are more likely to use a weapon/more brutal tactics due to the percieved strenght difference.

Yeah. Let's not.

NaFirinne · 10-10-2019 7:31pm

I think the only way to respond is for everyone to make a formal complaint about anyone who touches them whatsoever. Lets convict the country

Midster · 10-10-2019 7:32pm

Thank Jesus I was born when I was and not a horny awkward teenager in this day and age.
Cause I’d be foooooked!!

Reviews and Books Galore · 10-10-2019 7:33pm

You know, I just read that he was found guilty.

Tbh, it is worrying that the word sexual assault has been completely eroded.

I was in an interview as a young lad and the manager touched me on the inside of my elbow area( happened twice and with cowrrkers also). Was that sexual harrasment or just a normal gesture?

HorrorScope · 10-10-2019 7:34pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

You know, I just read that he was found guilty.

Tbh, it is worrying that the word sexual assault has been completely eroded.

I was in an interview as a young lad and the manager touched me on the inside of my elbow area( happened twice and with cowrrkers also). Was that sexual harrasment or just a normal gesture?

That was total sexual harassment and you should have metoo’d him/her in to oblivion.

10-10-2019 7:40pm

Girl was totally correct in reporting the incidents. 100% correct. It was certainly a very strange encounter and worrying.

Secondly, people need to appreciate that the "defence" argument was that he was "shy"- the jury obviously didn't believe that. And in some respects, neither do I. It was a defence argument.

If there was concrete proof of being shy, I'd hope the UK papers would have reported extensively on that aspect and how the defence placed evidence in front of a jury. But I haven't read anything other than "he was shy", and that he looked up on the internet "how to make friends". Not much of a defence I'd have to say, after displaying fairly concerning behaviour on two separate occasions, against a 17 year old school girl.

However, what happened next in terms of how it progressed to arrest charge and conviction, is somewhat of a mystery.

He was convicted of 2 charges of sexual assault according to the Manchester Evening News.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/touching-teenage-girl-way-home-17061816

I can imagine a charge of "attempted sexual assault" being successful, if there is such a law on the UK books; but sexual assault? Hard for me to grasp, but i'm not a UK law expert.

I could imagine some sort of "common assault" charge given the whole "creepiness" of the encounter; or some form of adult caution. But not this- I'm a bit perplexed as to (a) how a judge allowed the case to progress and (b) how the jury reached their decision.

Very open to other perspectives here btw- but newspaper articles on this are leaving me none the wiser in terms of "justice served".

And btw, just to re-iterate once more, the girl was 100% correct and right to report these incidents to the police.

elperello · 10-10-2019 7:47pm

He is guilty of Common Assault and at the lower end of the scale at that.
I'd imagine a suspended sentence would be appropriate.

HorrorScope · 10-10-2019 7:48pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Girl was totally correct in reporting the incidents. 100% correct. It was certainly a very strange encounter and worrying.

Secondly, people need to appreciate that the "defence" argument was that he was "shy"- the jury obviously didn't believe that. And in some respects, neither do I. It was a defence argument.

If there was concrete proof of being shy, I'd hope the UK papers would have reported extensively on that aspect and how the defence placed evidence in front of a jury. But I haven't read anything other than "he was shy", and that he looked up on the internet "how to make friends". Not much of a defence I'd have to say, after displaying fairly concerning behaviour on two separate occasions, against a 17 year old school girl.

However, what happened next in terms of how it progressed to arrest charge and conviction, is somewhat of a mystery.

He was convicted of 2 charges of sexual assault according to the Manchester Evening News.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/touching-teenage-girl-way-home-17061816

I can imagine a charge of "attempted sexual assault" being successful, if there is such a law on the UK books; but sexual assault? Hard for me to grasp, but i'm not a UK law expert.

I could imagine some sort of "common assault" charge given the whole "creepiness" of the encounter; or some form of adult caution. But not this- I'm a bit perplexed as to (a) how a judge allowed the case to progress and (b) how the jury reached their decision.

Very open to other perspectives here btw- but newspaper articles on this are leaving me none the wiser in terms of "justice served".

And btw, just to re-iterate once more, the girl was 100% correct and right to report these incidents to the police.

He touched her arm - what do you think there was to report in this case? I’ve had female colleagues touch me on the shoulder and even waist sometimes when they are speaking - should I make a complaint and get them fired for sexual harassment?? The world is gone ****ing soft in the head

Boggles · 10-10-2019 7:50pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

He touched her arm - what do you think there was to report in this case? I’ve had female colleagues touch me on the shoulder and even waist sometimes when they are speaking - should I make a complaint and get them fired for sexual harassment?? The world is gone ****ing soft in the head

Because that is exactly what happened in this case.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 7:51pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

Creepy for sure but the guy sounds like a harmless soul with a couple of screws loose. Not making excuses for him at all but he hardly sounds like a lecherous rapist flicking his tongue in the hedges. Seems like a complete overreaction by the “offended” lady in my eyes.

l

Too hard to tell with the information we have. Stalker behaviour escalates really quickly. The bloke is odd (not a crime) but what he did has been deemed a crime.

Pity there wasn't an effective intervention before now to give him the support he needed.

We're all precluding the possibility that he's just a wrong'un. We don't know whether he's a harmless fool or a deviant be abuse we don't have enough information.

lawred2 · 10-10-2019 7:52pm

spodoinkle wrote: »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7557947/Shy-awkward-student-19-faces-JAIL-sex-assault-conviction.html

the world is officially f*cked. My previous life of chatting up the ladies could have me facing the death penalty, I touched more arms than I can remember.

Has this kids life been ruined for touching a girls arm? How can she seriously have reported this?

One thing's for sure - at least we can all rely on the source here to not present this story in a jaundiced manner to encourage website hits.

So that's good at least.

HorrorScope · 10-10-2019 7:52pm

Boggles wrote: »

Because that is exactly what happened in this case.

She told the hearing: 'I saw him facing a hedge and I thought it was really weird. As I walked towards him, he suddenly swung round so he was facing me.

'As soon as he moved I moved and said: 'stop' and he touched my arm. I sort of jolted out of the way and went into the road to avoid him and he very quickly walked away.

'I think it would have been on my breast had I not moved. When it first happened I didn't think much of it. I forgot about it because I had my exams and just thought it was weird behaviour.'

This is an assumption it is not fact. Back to my example I could make a complaint that a female coworker touched my arm but I for sure thought it would have touched my dick if I didn’t allow it - it’s nonsense, absolute nonsense.

mosstin · 10-10-2019 7:54pm

Suttree wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this lad is not actually going to get 10 years in prison.

Careful now.....

Boggles · 10-10-2019 7:54pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

l

Too hard to tell with the information we have. Stalker behaviour escalates really quickly. The bloke is odd (not a crime) but what he did has been deemed a crime.

Exactly, I don't buy the shyness.

His actions were predatory.

Shy people don't move out from a hedge and try to grab / touch young girls twice.

I imagine there is a lot more to this that hasn't been reported.

splinter65 · 10-10-2019 7:54pm

Guys really need to know that you must not even look in the direction of a girl you don’t know now because you may end up in serious trouble.
This guys life is destroyed because he touched a girls arm in a crowded night club.
And her mother, who wasn’t there, said he was “going to”touch her breast?
It’s only a matter of time before males will have to keep their eyes on the floor when in public spaces in case a girl claims that she was terrified because a man looked at her.

10-10-2019 7:55pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

He touched her arm - what do you think there was to report in this case? I’ve had female colleagues touch me on the shoulder and even waist sometimes when they are speaking - should I make a complaint and get them fired for sexual harassment?? The world is gone ****ing soft in the head

It's not the legal aspect of "arm touching" that's the issue here. It's the fact that:

a. The girl was alone- she was a school girl- you do know that don't you?

b. This happened on 2 separate occasions

c. The assailant didn't say anything on either occasion.

d. He approached her in a manner that was concerning to her

e. She didn't bring the prosecution - the authorities did. She just reported what happened to her.

Now, let me spell this out for you as you're obviously in need of a little help here understanding the situation, for whatever reason that may be.

A 17 year old girl is accosted in a strange manner, by an adult male she doesn't know on 2 separate occasions. If you were her father, what would you recommend to be the next action?

splinter65 · 10-10-2019 7:56pm

Boggles wrote: »

Exactly, I don't buy the shyness.

His actions were predatory.

Shy people don't move out from a hedge and try to grab / touch young girls twice.

I imagine there is a lot more to this that hasn't been reported.

I don’t think you’re in any danger boggles, somehow....

Salary Negotiator · 10-10-2019 7:58pm

splinter65 wrote: »

Guys really need to know that you must not even look in the direction of a girl you don’t know now because you may end up in serious trouble.
This guys life is destroyed because he touched a girls arm in a crowded night club.
And her mother, who wasn’t there, said he was “going to”touch her breast?
It’s only a matter of time before males will have to keep their eyes on the floor when in public spaces in case a girl claims that she was terrified because a man looked at her.

Did you even read the article? Obviously not.

Boggles · 10-10-2019 8:00pm

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t think you’re in any danger boggles, somehow....

You didn't even read the article did you?

:rolleyes:

pinkyeye · 10-10-2019 8:01pm

splinter65 wrote: »

Guys really need to know that you must not even look in the direction of a girl you don’t know now because you may end up in serious trouble.
This guys life is destroyed because he touched a girls arm in a crowded night club.
And her mother, who wasn’t there, said he was “going to”touch her breast?
It’s only a matter of time before males will have to keep their eyes on the floor when in public spaces in case a girl claims that she was terrified because a man looked at her.

You see, you just made all that up. There was no night club involved. :rolleyes:

HorrorScope · 10-10-2019 8:03pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not the legal aspect of "arm touching" that's the issue here. It's the fact that:

a. The girl was alone- she was a school girl- you do know that don't you?

b. This happened on 2 separate occasions

c. The assailant didn't say anything on either occasion.

d. He approached her in a manner that was concerning to her

e. She didn't bring the prosecution - the authorities did. She just reported what happened to her.

Now, let me spell this out for you as you're obviously in need of a little help here understanding the situation, for whatever reason that may be.

A 17 year old girl is accosted in a strange manner, by an adult male she doesn't know on 2 separate occasions. If you were her father, what would you recommend to be the next action?

What nonsense again. The same a-d above applies to my older female co-worker touching my arm, should I point at the doll and show them where she touched me?

And calling him an “adult” male is belittling the absurdity of this story - he’s 19. Shall we dig in to the numerous reports lately of 30+ Year old female teachers having sex with students if you want to go down that road?

pinkyeye · 10-10-2019 8:05pm

Honestly I think there's two very inept students here. One who touched someone and didn't or couldn't speak to explain themselves if he's to be believed but also another one who couldn't just say out loud "what are at?" or "what do you want?".

If ever there was proof of the need for consent lessons this is it.

pinkyeye · 10-10-2019 8:08pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

What nonsense again. The same a-d above applies to my older female co-worker touching my arm, should I point at the doll and show them where she touched me?

And calling him an “adult” male is belittling the absurdity of this story - he’s 19. Shall we dig in to the numerous reports lately of 30+ Year old female teachers having sex with students if you want to go down that road?

In your imaginary scenario you already know your female co-worker and presumably she's speaking when she touches your arm?

If she's not then that's creepy alright.

10-10-2019 8:08pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Honestly I think there's two very inept students here. One who touched someone and didn't or couldn't speak to explain themselves if he's to be believed but also another one who couldn't just say out loud "what are at?" or "what do you want?".

If ever there was proof of the need for consent lessons this is it.

But Shirley, the UK justice system would have sorted that out and got to the truth of the matter if that was really the case? If indeed, it happened the way you said, Shirley lawyers on both sides would have seen common sense?

It didn't happen in this case.

Quantum Erasure · 10-10-2019 8:09pm

gwalk wrote: »

the exageration of how he was going to touch her breast is a bit far fetched, as for saying it ruined her chaces for Oxford hahaha

honestly, this generation is ruined

#Ibelieveher

10-10-2019 8:09pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

What nonsense again. The same a-d above applies to my older female co-worker touching my arm, should I point at the doll and show them where she touched me?

And calling him an “adult” male is belittling the absurdity of this story - he’s 19. Shall we dig in to the numerous reports lately of 30+ Year old female teachers having sex with students if you want to go down that road?

I won't be going down any road with you as i can see what you're about with your posts.

One eyed Jack · 10-10-2019 8:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I could imagine some sort of "common assault" charge given the whole "creepiness" of the encounter; or some form of adult caution. But not this- I'm a bit perplexed as to (a) how a judge allowed the case to progress and (b) how the jury reached their decision.

Very open to other perspectives here btw- but newspaper articles on this are leaving me none the wiser in terms of "justice served".

Aye, they tend to do that, especially sensationalist rags like the Daily Mail.

But basically Magistrates Courts don’t have a Jury and the Judges are a panel, They deal with offences on the lower end of the scale, with the idea of restorative justice and reform as guiding principles -

Almost all criminal proceedings start at a magistrates' court. Summary offences are smaller crimes (such as public order offences or most driving matters) that can be punished under the magistrates' courts limited sentencing powers – community sentences, fines, short custodial sentences. Indictable offences, on the other hand, are serious crimes (e.g. rape, murder); if it is found at the initial hearing of the magistrates' court that there is a case to answer, they are committed to the Crown Court, which has a much wider range of sentencing power. Either-way offences (such as theft) will ultimately fall into one of the previous categories depending on how serious the particular crime in question is (a minor theft will be dealt with in a magistrates' court; a serious theft will be dealt with in a Crown Court), although a defendant also has the right in such cases to elect for trial by jury in the Crown Court.

Cases are heard by a bench of three (or occasionally two) lay judges, or by a paid district judge; there is no jury at a magistrates' court.

Criminal cases are usually, although not exclusively, investigated by the police and then prosecuted at the court by the Crown Prosecution Service.

Defendants may hire a solicitor or barrister to represent them, often paid for by legal aid.

....

Often the point is to achieve restorative justice (compensation of victims of crime) and reformation of the offenders. These alternative punishments are called community sentences. A community sentence would usually consist of community payback, a duty to work between 40 and 300 hours unpaid in the community. This is often complemented by some kind of programme or treatment, offering a helping hand to offenders, and engaging them at the same time – ending a drug habit, coping with a mental illness, skills and qualifications for work, and more. Also, the judge (or magistrate) may issue orders with rules such as curfew, restraining orders (cannot go near their victim, for example) and many others. During serving of community sentences, similarly to suspended sentence, offenders usually will be supervised by a probation officer.

Magistrates' court (England and Wales), Wikipedia

Boggles · 10-10-2019 8:11pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Honestly I think there's two very inept students here. One who touched someone and didn't or couldn't speak to explain themselves if he's to be believed but also another one who couldn't just say out loud "what are at?" or "what do you want?".

If ever there was proof of the need for consent lessons this is it.

I don't think consent lessons would have helped her, self defense maybe.

Guy touches girls arm, faces 10 years for sexual assault

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