If theres a climate emergency, why cant we build a Metro

jammiedodgers · 10-10-2019 12:52PM

ednwireland wrote: »

you know how many co2s building a metro would take ! jeez

I'd say at least 5 CO2's

whisky_galore · 10-10-2019 01:03PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Another thing is, too many people don't want these projects because it may inconvenience them in some way or they'll be angry that money is being spent on something they wont benefit from. People shout loud enough, TDs object, and things never get done. We simply don't seem to want to f*cking progress in certain areas.

People were whinging about Luas construction. They didn't moan when their property values rose as a result.
In short, people are idiots.

Mad_maxx · 10-10-2019 01:16PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Why is it that on the International front our politicians are competent and domestically they are a shambles.

Cannot see the metro getting off the ground anytime soon.

Also the lads getting offended at a bit if criticism from the Dutch man. What age are he, 5 ffs? Don't take it so personally.

Ireland is too democratic which results in every dingbat cranks objection to progress being indulged

Richard Hillman · 10-10-2019 01:30PM

A metro has been costed at around 4bn

To put that 4bn in perspective, we give close to 1bn a year on Foreign Aid. 5.5bn a year given to NGOs.

The money is there but politicians are looking after their post government careers.

And instead of just cutting that 6.5bn, we could just replace it with a voluntary contribution system. People who want to give to foreign aid and NGOs can donate to a state bank account that gets distributed to whoever.

Problem sorted. But no....

Muahahaha · 10-10-2019 01:37PM

L1011 wrote: »

Vested interests not wanting minor disruption + the Green Party getting their crayons out and trying to change the route causing massive delays. The Greens here are incompetent, always have been always will be.

I already had very little time for the Greens after their stint in government where they kept FF in power while Rome burned- all they were concerned about was shoving through a ban on bloody stag hunting while the banks and the economy were collapsing around us.

But since then they have gotten even worse- as you say Eamon Ryan and his crayon drawing for a south west metro when he knew full well that we didnt have a magic €3bn to facilitate his crazy notions. He was politicking and rabble rousing to his local constituents in the most disingenuous way by claiming to be in favour of a metro and then going out of his way to delay it with his crayon drawing.

And then yesterday he's showed up on TV and said that villages in rural Ireland with 300 families could voluntarily give up their cars and share 30 cars between them. What Eamon doesnt get is people still have to go places for daily living. The guy is a complete and utter moron and its frightening that the Greens look like being on their way back into government again.
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2019/10/09/it-takes-a-village-3/

machaseh · 10-10-2019 02:34PM

jmayo wrote: »

Not alone that The Netherlands is in the top 20 largest economies in the world, has the 4th richest population in the world, the biggest port in Europe, 40% of European container traffic routes through Rotherdam, is at the end of one Europe's largest waterways the Rhine.
Netherlands has had a long head start on Ireland and a lot of that infrastructure was built up over decades.

And they can mock us for commenting about being a colony of Britain not so long ago in the grand scheme of things, but that is easy for someone from a rich nation has been independent since the mid 1600s, has a rich trading history, that owned their own little empire of sorts or are they forgetting they once owned the most populous country in South East Asia. :rolleyes:

Hell they still have a few islands in the Caribbean unless that has slipped their mind also.

Oh and all the electric this that and the other they speak of is partially generated by nuclear plant.

Ok it is only something like 4%, but here is the rub the parliament recently supported the building of more nuclear plants.
And is Netherlands not part of the UCTE grid ?

I don't mind someone having a go, someone pointing out stuff, but I do mind a condescending mocking tone from someone.

Yes we are indeed better than the lot of ye, so why don't yous take heed and copy some of the things that we do, such as excellent bike infrastructure?

machaseh · 10-10-2019 02:36PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Maybe he should fück off back to Dutchland if it's so great?

Nah I won't go back, because I am here in Dublin with a good job payin a lot of taxes so that chavs such as yerself can sit in your council estates with a box of amber leaf and a tray of Gallahad export beer from aldi and get the dole payment that I am paying for, while yer kids in tracksuits are throwing rocks at innocent passersby just for the craic of it.

Cina · 10-10-2019 02:37PM

Oh he's not Dutch at all, he's just a Troll.

machaseh · 10-10-2019 02:40PM

Cina wrote: »

Oh he's not Dutch at all, he's just a Troll.

Ik ben gewoon een Nederlander hoor.

I am just a Dutchman. I've been living in Dublin for 2 years. It's good craic alright but the politics of this country are at the level of any third world banana republic, as is its infrastructure. It's a disgrace for Western Europe.

jam_mac_jam · 10-10-2019 02:45PM

We can't build a bus lane, how are we going to build a metro. It will never get built.

People need to grow up a bit and Politicians need to just suck it up and loose some local votes for the common good.

And while I don't like a Dutchman calling my country a dump, I have to agree on most of the points on infrastructure.

We are too car dependent, we need to do something quickly before the quality of life completely goes out the window. People have to accept that there are not enough room for all the cars and we are going to have to get off our big fat arses and stop driving all time.

jimgoose · 10-10-2019 02:46PM

machaseh wrote: »

Ik ben gewoon een Nederlander hoor...

I knew it! You're from Meath! :pac:

NIMAN · 10-10-2019 02:47PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A metro has been costed at around 4bn

But in Ireland I would guess that 4bn would end up being 10bn.

We tend to over-run a lot on capital projects in this country.

But I'd actually respect a Gov who said "we have a transport issue in Dublin, and we aren't sending any foreign aid for 5 yrs and building a metro".

Deebles McBeebles · 10-10-2019 02:48PM

machaseh wrote: »

I am just a Dutchman.

Je zit in je gat.

suicide_circus · 10-10-2019 02:52PM

machaseh wrote: »

Compared to my own country the netherlands, Ireland is abysmal when it comes to sustainable living.

In many dublin areas, trash is hardly separated. Everybody does everything by car. Public transport is ****e. There's hardly places to charge your electric car outside of Dublin. Trains aren't electrified. You cant even recycle your damn beer bottles properly in this dump of a country. It's a disgrace. And dont come here now with 'bUt We WeRe CoLoNizEd By ThE EnGlIsH', stop boohooing it's 2019 ye c****

Here's my plan to make Ireland way more sustainable over the next few decades.

- Electrify all major railway lines in Ireland. Dublin - Belfast, Dublin - Cork, Dublin - Galway, Dublin - Rosslare Europort etc. Increase train service to much higher levels than exists now.
- Vastly improve biking infrastructure in cities, especially in Dublin. Meaning bike paths PHYSICALLY SEPARATED from road traffic, a busline with a bike symbol simply isn't good enough. Every road where there is room for it should have these bike paths on the side as a standard, and corridors need to be made from the city center to the various suburbs so that people can safely, quickly and easily bike all over town cutting down strain on full public transportation and relieving road traffic and emissions.
- Build the damn metro in Dublin already, and also look towards small-scale Luas systems in Cork galway and belfast.
- Put an electric car charging point in every major town and at motorway service areas.
- Expand the luas in dublin to go to places such as Clongriffin, Rathfarnham, Blanchardstown etc.
- Expand Dart in dublin to Wicklow town, Balbriggan, Maynooth, Hazelhatch Celbridge etc.
- Make zoning laws so that low-density land in areas well-served by public transport is converted into mid-to high rise buildings with residential, commerical and offices.
- Enforce trash recycling in the entire country, including some dublin areas and private condos which handle their own trash, everything should be recycled. Also ienforce obligatory recycling of beer bottles, glass, plastic bottles etc. in any local supermarket.

It really is not that hard. It costs money, but guess what also costs money? How about not having Apple pay their fair share of taxes, probably costs a lot of money too. Also tax the rich and the multinationals and the property investors.

while everything you say may be true, calling a country in which you are a guest a "dump" is not a particularly good look.

machaseh · 10-10-2019 03:03PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

We can't build a bus lane, how are we going to build a metro. It will never get built.

People need to grow up a bit and Politicians need to just suck it up and loose some local votes for the common good.

And while I don't like a Dutchman calling my country a dump, I have to agree on most of the points on infrastructure.

We are too car dependent, we need to do something quickly before the quality of life completely goes out the window. People have to accept that there are not enough room for all the cars and we are going to have to get off our big fat arses and stop driving all time.

Completely agree with this.

I am pretty sure that the dysfunctional district voting system also doesn't help in getting things done, as politicians mainly focus on their own constituencies and lose track of the bigger picture.

suicide_circus wrote: »

while everything you say may be true, calling a country in which you are a guest a "dump" is not a particularly good look.

I am not a 'guest'. I am a EU citizen who is residing in Ireland legally and paying a whole lot of taxes of which I see little to nothing in terms of services. All so ye irish can live on the dole in yer council estates with big pitbulls in yer backyards locked up and going to the local in yer tracksuits for pints and watching the horse races.

Guests would be tourists or asylum seekers, not working expats like meself.

jimgoose · 10-10-2019 03:05PM

machaseh wrote: »

...I am not a 'guest'. I am a EU citizen...

Tell me - do they really pass you on the left-hand side? Surely you have to drive on the left here the same as everyone else??

Stevieluvsye · 10-10-2019 03:08PM

machaseh wrote: »

Completely agree with this.

I am pretty sure that the dysfunctional district voting system also doesn't help in getting things done, as politicians mainly focus on their own constituencies and lose track of the bigger picture.

I am not a 'guest'. I am a EU citizen who is residing in Ireland legally and paying a whole lot of taxes of which I see little to nothing in terms of services. All so ye irish can live on the dole in yer council estates with big pitbulls in yer backyards locked up and going to the local in yer tracksuits for pints and watching the horse races.

Guests would be tourists or asylum seekers, not working expats like meself.

You may not be a guest but you have a fcuking terrible attitude. If it's so bad, go home. Simple

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-10-2019 03:14PM

Forget Metro, even Monorail, 1,200 km/h Hyperloop is de futures.

facehugger99 · 10-10-2019 03:16PM

A metro will cost literally billions - I could honestly see it costing between €5bn - €6bn. Not to mention the costs associated with the delays and disruption caused during the construction period.

For that type of money, you would be able to put in state of the art bus and cycling facilities, that would provide a lot more bang for your buck in terms of economic and environmental value.

People (i.e. voters) generally hate the idea of bikes and buses, and they seem to love the idea of metros, so I wouldn't be at all surprised for the politicians to accommodate the general ignorance and push ahead with a metro that will serve a very narrow corridor of the city.

Along with the National Broadband plan, it will be another massive waste of billions of taxpayer resources.

machaseh · 10-10-2019 03:28PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

A metro will cost literally billions - I could honestly see it costing between €5bn - €6bn. Not to mention the costs associated with the delays and disruption caused during the construction period.

For that type of money, you would be able to put in state of the art bus and cycling facilities, that would provide a lot more bang for your buck in terms of economic and environmental value.

People (i.e. voters) generally hate the idea of bikes and buses, and they seem to love the idea of metros, so I wouldn't be at all surprised for the politicians to accommodate the general ignorance and push ahead with a metro that will serve a very narrow corridor of the city.

Along with the National Broadband plan, it will be another massive waste of billions of taxpayer resources.

Well, car-dwellers are much easier to persuade into a tram or metro than into a bus, even if the bus is actually slightly faster. This is because a rail transportation system is simply a more premium product. Land values also rise significantly around Luas stops, because the infrastructure is there to stay. I am not going to buy a house because it's on the 155 bus route, because who knows, next year the route might have changed.

While I agree with you that more should also be done in terms of bike and bus infrastructure, we also really need to start looking towards expanding the LUAS system in Dublin and perhaps an underground metrolink, even if it doesn't go all the distance that was planned.

Marhay70 · 10-10-2019 03:38PM

As long as we have politicians in "safe" seats we will have this type of sh***. The career politicians with their hereditary seats are a joke.
In short, the reason Ireland has such sh*** infrastructure is because we have a sh*** attitude to who we put in positions of power and the sh***decisions they make. We have had basically the same government since independence, how can we expect to have a decent political regime when the politicians have no fear of the electorate, we simply move the goodies around. So maybe we should look at how incompetent we, the electorate, are before calling out people who offer justifiable criticism.

machaseh · 10-10-2019 03:47PM

Marhay70 wrote: »

As long as we have politicians in "safe" seats we will have this type of sh***. The career politicians with their hereditary seats are a joke.
In short, the reason Ireland has such sh*** infrastructure is because we have a sh*** attitude to who we put in positions of power and the sh***decisions they make. We have had basically the same government since independence, how can we expect to have a decent political regime when the politicians have no fear of the electorate, we simply move the goodies around. So maybe we should look at how incompetent we, the electorate, are before calling out people who offer justifiable criticism.

I heard that Irish people usually just vote for whichever candidate their parents voted for. Is it really true that yous are not bright enough to actually vote for whoever has the better policies?

jam_mac_jam · 10-10-2019 03:50PM

machaseh wrote: »

I heard that Irish people usually just vote for whichever candidate their parents voted for. Is it really true that yous are not bright enough to actually vote for whoever has the better policies?

The two main parties have the same policies. There is no difference. One is slightly less corrupt.

Thelonious Monk · 10-10-2019 03:51PM

machaseh wrote: »

Nah I won't go back, because I am here in Dublin with a good job payin a lot of taxes so that chavs such as yerself can sit in your council estates with a box of amber leaf and a tray of Gallahad export beer from aldi and get the dole payment that I am paying for, while yer kids in tracksuits are throwing rocks at innocent passersby just for the craic of it.

I just spent a few days with my Dutch friend. I always give him sh*t because they are basically a filthy rich country through old capital gained in the slave trade, colonisation, and bloodshed. We were an impoverished island until recently under foreign rule. We are a bit of a basket case alright but we could be a lot worse, moneybags.

Marhay70 · 10-10-2019 03:53PM

machaseh wrote: »

I heard that Irish people usually just vote for whichever candidate their parents voted for. Is it really true that yous are not bright enough to actually vote for whoever has the better policies?

They all have brilliant manifestos at election time and then wipe their arses with them when elected. Problem is that when they present themselves for election again we don't hold them to account, we just swallow the same bull**** again and expect a different outcome.

whisky_galore · 10-10-2019 03:57PM

machaseh wrote: »

Nah I won't go back, because I am here in Dublin with a good job payin a lot of taxes so that chavs such as yerself can sit in your council estates with a box of amber leaf and a tray of Gallahad export beer from aldi and get the dole payment that I am paying for, while yer kids in tracksuits are throwing rocks at innocent passersby just for the craic of it.

You're so far off the mark with your baseless assumption it's comical.

machaseh · 10-10-2019 03:59PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I just spent a few days with my Dutch friend. I always give him sh*t because they are basically a filthy rich country through old capital gained in the slave trade, colonisation, and bloodshed. We were an impoverished island until recently under foreign rule. We are a bit of a basket case alright but we could be a lot worse, moneybags.

This may be true but the victim complex that so many irish people seem to have is not gonna help yas forward one bit. You've been a big independent boy for many many decades now, it's time to grow up and get yer infrastructure up to par with the rest of the western world.

whisky_galore · 10-10-2019 04:00PM

machaseh wrote: »

I heard that Irish people usually just vote for whichever candidate their parents voted for. Is it really true that yous are not bright enough to actually vote for whoever has the better policies?

What kind of Dutch person uses the word 'yous'?

jimgoose · 10-10-2019 04:01PM

machaseh wrote: »

This may be true but the victim complex that so many irish people seem to have is not gonna help yas forward one bit. You've been a big independent boy for many many decades now, it's time to grow up and get yer infrastructure up to par with the rest of the western world.

The Peig Sayers shit gets on my nerves as well, in this day-and-age. I like the Dutch, for a bunch of imperialist Cloggies you're a civilised, affable folk with a hilarious language. Peace! :cool:

jam_mac_jam · 10-10-2019 04:01PM

Yeah I agree with you, its our own choices that have the country the way it is, most Irish people love sitting on their fat arses in their big stupid cars.

It needs to change and we need to realize we are in Europe and aspire to be like Europe instead of loving the US so much and basing everything around the car.

If theres a climate emergency, why cant we build a Metro

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