If theres a climate emergency, why cant we build a Metro

veryangryman

Surely this would take (conservative estimate) 50K cars off the road per day in the city?

I know Fiscal space and all that sh1te, but surely you can sell the idea of the above to the EU and grab a massive loan for it. Hell, why not take some of that pointless 2c rise at the pumps to donate to it?

What the flute gives that a Metro is so far off.

Yes i know this is AH, but i need my daily dose of sarcastic answers with a hint of realism

Wayne Jarvis

Thelonious Monk

Nimbyism, parish pump politics, lack of leadership and political will... not gonna happen

punisher5112

I love sitting on traffic for 2 hours every day....

dxhound2005

What city is this?

ednwireland

you know how many co2s building a metro would take ! jeez

tabby aspreme

It's going to be delayed for a few more years due to a shortage of, specific Site, Health and Safety Protection Personal, seen as Dublin City Council's preferred operatives are looking at a few years in the Joy

Dravokivich

Metro is for short distance commuting. We have people commuting around Dublin from the Midlands. That needs to be addressed first.

Thelonious Monk

Dravokivich wrote: »

Metro is for short distance commuting. We have people commuting around Dublin from the Midlands. That needs to be addressed first.

Its all related. It helps fight sprawl and we need high density high rise around public transport.

Keyzer

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Nimbyism, parish pump politics, lack of leadership and political will... not gonna happen

This...

Force Carrier

They had bought a few metros over in the states. But carbon shaming issues arose when it came to flying them back into the country here.

machaseh

Compared to my own country the netherlands, Ireland is abysmal when it comes to sustainable living.

In many dublin areas, trash is hardly separated. Everybody does everything by car. Public transport is ****e. There's hardly places to charge your electric car outside of Dublin. Trains aren't electrified. You cant even recycle your damn beer bottles properly in this dump of a country. It's a disgrace. And dont come here now with 'bUt We WeRe CoLoNizEd By ThE EnGlIsH', stop boohooing it's 2019 ye c****

Here's my plan to make Ireland way more sustainable over the next few decades.

- Electrify all major railway lines in Ireland. Dublin - Belfast, Dublin - Cork, Dublin - Galway, Dublin - Rosslare Europort etc. Increase train service to much higher levels than exists now.
- Vastly improve biking infrastructure in cities, especially in Dublin. Meaning bike paths PHYSICALLY SEPARATED from road traffic, a busline with a bike symbol simply isn't good enough. Every road where there is room for it should have these bike paths on the side as a standard, and corridors need to be made from the city center to the various suburbs so that people can safely, quickly and easily bike all over town cutting down strain on full public transportation and relieving road traffic and emissions.
- Build the damn metro in Dublin already, and also look towards small-scale Luas systems in Cork galway and belfast.
- Put an electric car charging point in every major town and at motorway service areas.
- Expand the luas in dublin to go to places such as Clongriffin, Rathfarnham, Blanchardstown etc.
- Expand Dart in dublin to Wicklow town, Balbriggan, Maynooth, Hazelhatch Celbridge etc.
- Make zoning laws so that low-density land in areas well-served by public transport is converted into mid-to high rise buildings with residential, commerical and offices.
- Enforce trash recycling in the entire country, including some dublin areas and private condos which handle their own trash, everything should be recycled. Also ienforce obligatory recycling of beer bottles, glass, plastic bottles etc. in any local supermarket.

It really is not that hard. It costs money, but guess what also costs money? How about not having Apple pay their fair share of taxes, probably costs a lot of money too. Also tax the rich and the multinationals and the property investors.

TuringBot47

machaseh wrote: »

You cant even recycle your damn beer bottles properly in this dump of a country. It's a disgrace.

There's plenty of bottle recycling banks around.
Usually individual skips separated by the colour of the glass.

Maybe all that beer is making you angry and confused.
Or there just isn't one on your doorstep.

machaseh wrote: »

- Electrify all major railway lines in Ireland. Dublin - Belfast, Dublin - Cork, Dublin - Galway, Dublin - Rosslare Europort etc. Increase train service to much higher levels than exists now.

Electrification is not what is stopping service levels.
It's the number of lines, hard to have a mix of express and commuter trains on the one track.
There's already long term plans to bring the Dart as far as Drogheda.

Ireland has less than a third of the population of the Netherlands so you'll never the get economies of scale to make it as efficient.

Tazio

ednwireland wrote: »

you know how many co2s building a metro would take ! jeez

I read this morning that CO2's are now out of season.. the new tax fashion is NOx... got to get me some of them NOx-es before they get too expensive.





A Metro in a city here would cost more than the bank bailout and RTE combined. The land required (and who owns it) would be hurdle bigger than Donald's wall & his alligators..

L1011

Vested interests not wanting minor disruption + the Green Party getting their crayons out and trying to change the route causing massive delays. The Greens here are incompetent, always have been always will be.

punisher5112

Sligo for metro

scamalert

Tazio wrote: »

I read this morning that CO2's are now out of season.. the new tax fashion is NOx... got to get me some of them NOx-es before they get too expensive.





A Metro in a city here would cost more than the bank bailout and RTE combined. The land required (and who owns it) would be hurdle bigger than Donald's wall & his alligators..

are we talking building metro over the city ? as pretty sure all under land belongs to state.


that said this climate change $hite is to much nowadays youd think ireland is like India or smth, where people burn trash, yet taken into account most UK towns have larger population then entire Ireland, so yeah those 2c will go to some projects where they dont see the day of light, to save planet as seems Ireland is worst in europe somehow.

stevedublin

Nimbyism

add a major system of free park and ride at every radial junction to the m50 and ensure frequent direct services by luas or bus to the city centre.

until this happens, theres not sufficient options for the commuter belt

once thats in place, start work to ban cars on the quays and work out from there

Atlantic Dawn

L1011 wrote: »

Vested interests not wanting minor disruption + the Green Party getting their crayons out and trying to change the route causing massive delays. The Greens here are incompetent, always have been always will be.

To be fair they did encourage the diesel car and wood burning stoves on us, both contribute to killing people so reducing the population by reducing consumption :pac:

topper75

Lives in 'great' country that does everything correctly. Moves to other country that is not great. Demands that it change to be great like the country they left. Now.
Yup - the old Dutch - they're not 'German wannabees' at all are they? :-)

Cina

machaseh wrote: »

Compared to my own country the netherlands, Ireland is abysmal when it comes to sustainable living.

In many dublin areas, trash is hardly separated. Everybody does everything by car. Public transport is ****e. There's hardly places to charge your electric car outside of Dublin. Trains aren't electrified. You cant even recycle your damn beer bottles properly in this dump of a country. It's a disgrace. And dont come here now with 'bUt We WeRe CoLoNizEd By ThE EnGlIsH', stop boohooing it's 2019 ye c****

Here's my plan to make Ireland way more sustainable over the next few decades.

- Electrify all major railway lines in Ireland. Dublin - Belfast, Dublin - Cork, Dublin - Galway, Dublin - Rosslare Europort etc. Increase train service to much higher levels than exists now.
- Vastly improve biking infrastructure in cities, especially in Dublin. Meaning bike paths PHYSICALLY SEPARATED from road traffic, a busline with a bike symbol simply isn't good enough. Every road where there is room for it should have these bike paths on the side as a standard, and corridors need to be made from the city center to the various suburbs so that people can safely, quickly and easily bike all over town cutting down strain on full public transportation and relieving road traffic and emissions.
- Build the damn metro in Dublin already, and also look towards small-scale Luas systems in Cork galway and belfast.
- Put an electric car charging point in every major town and at motorway service areas.
- Expand the luas in dublin to go to places such as Clongriffin, Rathfarnham, Blanchardstown etc.
- Expand Dart in dublin to Wicklow town, Balbriggan, Maynooth, Hazelhatch Celbridge etc.
- Make zoning laws so that low-density land in areas well-served by public transport is converted into mid-to high rise buildings with residential, commerical and offices.
- Enforce trash recycling in the entire country, including some dublin areas and private condos which handle their own trash, everything should be recycled. Also ienforce obligatory recycling of beer bottles, glass, plastic bottles etc. in any local supermarket.

It really is not that hard. It costs money, but guess what also costs money? How about not having Apple pay their fair share of taxes, probably costs a lot of money too. Also tax the rich and the multinationals and the property investors.

The Netherlands has 4 times the population of Ireland in an area the size of Munster. It's much easier to build transport and infrastructure when a country is that densely populated. €3bn for something like a Metro is pittance to you but a lot of money to us, so why don't you come down off your high horse.. or.. go home?

whisky_galore

topper75 wrote: »

Lives in 'great' country that does everything correctly. Moves to other country that is not great. Demands that it change to be great like the country they left. Now.
Yup - the old Dutch - they're not 'German wannabees' at all are they? :-)

Maybe he should fück off back to Dutchland if it's so great?

riffmongous

TuringBot47 wrote: »

There's plenty of bottle recycling banks around.
Usually individual skips separated by the colour of the glass.

Maybe all that beer is making you angry and confused.
Or there just isn't one on your doorstep.

'properly' recycled, in a lot of other countries you just return the bottle, no need to have it smashed up in a skip

jimgoose

machaseh wrote: »

Compared to my own country the netherlands, Ireland is abysmal when it comes to sustainable living...

Shouldn't you have your finger in a dyke somewhere, Cloggie??

Tazio wrote: »

I read this morning that CO2's are now out of season.. the new tax fashion is NOx... got to get me some of them NOx-es before they get too expensive...

NOx was always a much bigger, more dangerous issue than CO2, but of course Eamonn Ryan and his ilk know about as much about it as a dog knows about his father. The amusing thing is, the more the Greens walloped the CO2 drum, the more car manufacturers upped the boost pressures and operating temperatures, and hence the NOx generation. Modern turbocharged, lean-running GDI petrol engines have much the same problems as turbodiesels and are using tricks like EGR and continuous cam-phasing to mitigate, although particulate matter emissions aren't quite as bad.

riffmongous

Lads ye're just embarrassing yourselves being so defensive. Take it on the chin

huddledDuke12

In short, political meddling, parish pump politics and stubbornness with a side order of NIMBYism are probably the biggest reasons why we don't have a metro line, never-mind a few of them.

During the era of Eamon de Valera or the "de Val....era", we dismantled a once extensive network of tramlines and railways in Dublin and nationwide respectively. This is an embarassment in and of itself.

To be honest, at this stage, I don't think there ever were plans for Metro, DART Underground and other major projects.

I say this because anytime they are proposed, I suspect poeple (mainly serial objectors) along their alignments are conveniently planted to hold up any plans until they are shelved. Once election time comes, the plans are conveniently resurrected under the guise of continued commitment and then shelved again.

Thelonious Monk

Another thing is, too many people don't want these projects because it may inconvenience them in some way or they'll be angry that money is being spent on something they wont benefit from. People shout loud enough, TDs object, and things never get done. We simply don't seem to want to f*cking progress in certain areas.

Sleepy

I've heard it said that the British were actually planning to build an underground system in Dublin prior to our deciding to emancipate ourselves and allow DeValera and his cronies lead us towards his isolationist dream of comely maidens dancing at the crossroads as the Catholic church raped and sold our children.

We should have held off our bid for independence until the 50s tbh.

jmayo

Cina wrote: »

The Netherlands has 4 times the population of Ireland in an area the size of Munster. It's much easier to build transport and infrastructure when a country is that densely populated. €3bn for something like a Metro is pittance to you but a lot of money to us, so why don't you come down off your high horse.. or.. go home?

Not alone that The Netherlands is in the top 20 largest economies in the world, has the 4th richest population in the world, the biggest port in Europe, 40% of European container traffic routes through Rotherdam, is at the end of one Europe's largest waterways the Rhine.
Netherlands has had a long head start on Ireland and a lot of that infrastructure was built up over decades.

And they can mock us for commenting about being a colony of Britain not so long ago in the grand scheme of things, but that is easy for someone from a rich nation has been independent since the mid 1600s, has a rich trading history, that owned their own little empire of sorts or are they forgetting they once owned the most populous country in South East Asia. :rolleyes:

Hell they still have a few islands in the Caribbean unless that has slipped their mind also.

Oh and all the electric this that and the other they speak of is partially generated by nuclear plant.

Ok it is only something like 4%, but here is the rub the parliament recently supported the building of more nuclear plants.
And is Netherlands not part of the UCTE grid ?

I don't mind someone having a go, someone pointing out stuff, but I do mind a condescending mocking tone from someone.

ChikiChiki

Why is it that on the International front our politicians are competent and domestically they are a shambles.

Cannot see the metro getting off the ground anytime soon.

Also the lads getting offended at a bit if criticism from the Dutch man. What age are he, 5 ffs? Don't take it so personally.

jammiedodgers

ednwireland wrote: »

you know how many co2s building a metro would take ! jeez

I'd say at least 5 CO2's

whisky_galore

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Another thing is, too many people don't want these projects because it may inconvenience them in some way or they'll be angry that money is being spent on something they wont benefit from. People shout loud enough, TDs object, and things never get done. We simply don't seem to want to f*cking progress in certain areas.

People were whinging about Luas construction. They didn't moan when their property values rose as a result.
In short, people are idiots.

Mad_maxx

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Why is it that on the International front our politicians are competent and domestically they are a shambles.

Cannot see the metro getting off the ground anytime soon.

Also the lads getting offended at a bit if criticism from the Dutch man. What age are he, 5 ffs? Don't take it so personally.

Ireland is too democratic which results in every dingbat cranks objection to progress being indulged

Richard Hillman

A metro has been costed at around 4bn

To put that 4bn in perspective, we give close to 1bn a year on Foreign Aid. 5.5bn a year given to NGOs.

The money is there but politicians are looking after their post government careers.

And instead of just cutting that 6.5bn, we could just replace it with a voluntary contribution system. People who want to give to foreign aid and NGOs can donate to a state bank account that gets distributed to whoever.

Problem sorted. But no....

Muahahaha

L1011 wrote: »

Vested interests not wanting minor disruption + the Green Party getting their crayons out and trying to change the route causing massive delays. The Greens here are incompetent, always have been always will be.

I already had very little time for the Greens after their stint in government where they kept FF in power while Rome burned- all they were concerned about was shoving through a ban on bloody stag hunting while the banks and the economy were collapsing around us.

But since then they have gotten even worse- as you say Eamon Ryan and his crayon drawing for a south west metro when he knew full well that we didnt have a magic €3bn to facilitate his crazy notions. He was politicking and rabble rousing to his local constituents in the most disingenuous way by claiming to be in favour of a metro and then going out of his way to delay it with his crayon drawing.

And then yesterday he's showed up on TV and said that villages in rural Ireland with 300 families could voluntarily give up their cars and share 30 cars between them. What Eamon doesnt get is people still have to go places for daily living. The guy is a complete and utter moron and its frightening that the Greens look like being on their way back into government again.
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2019/10/09/it-takes-a-village-3/

machaseh

jmayo wrote: »

Not alone that The Netherlands is in the top 20 largest economies in the world, has the 4th richest population in the world, the biggest port in Europe, 40% of European container traffic routes through Rotherdam, is at the end of one Europe's largest waterways the Rhine.
Netherlands has had a long head start on Ireland and a lot of that infrastructure was built up over decades.

And they can mock us for commenting about being a colony of Britain not so long ago in the grand scheme of things, but that is easy for someone from a rich nation has been independent since the mid 1600s, has a rich trading history, that owned their own little empire of sorts or are they forgetting they once owned the most populous country in South East Asia. :rolleyes:

Hell they still have a few islands in the Caribbean unless that has slipped their mind also.

Oh and all the electric this that and the other they speak of is partially generated by nuclear plant.

Ok it is only something like 4%, but here is the rub the parliament recently supported the building of more nuclear plants.
And is Netherlands not part of the UCTE grid ?

I don't mind someone having a go, someone pointing out stuff, but I do mind a condescending mocking tone from someone.

Yes we are indeed better than the lot of ye, so why don't yous take heed and copy some of the things that we do, such as excellent bike infrastructure?

machaseh

whisky_galore wrote: »

Maybe he should fück off back to Dutchland if it's so great?

Nah I won't go back, because I am here in Dublin with a good job payin a lot of taxes so that chavs such as yerself can sit in your council estates with a box of amber leaf and a tray of Gallahad export beer from aldi and get the dole payment that I am paying for, while yer kids in tracksuits are throwing rocks at innocent passersby just for the craic of it.

Cina

Oh he's not Dutch at all, he's just a Troll.

machaseh

Cina wrote: »

Oh he's not Dutch at all, he's just a Troll.

Ik ben gewoon een Nederlander hoor.

I am just a Dutchman. I've been living in Dublin for 2 years. It's good craic alright but the politics of this country are at the level of any third world banana republic, as is its infrastructure. It's a disgrace for Western Europe.

jam_mac_jam

We can't build a bus lane, how are we going to build a metro. It will never get built.

People need to grow up a bit and Politicians need to just suck it up and loose some local votes for the common good.

And while I don't like a Dutchman calling my country a dump, I have to agree on most of the points on infrastructure.

We are too car dependent, we need to do something quickly before the quality of life completely goes out the window. People have to accept that there are not enough room for all the cars and we are going to have to get off our big fat arses and stop driving all time.

jimgoose

machaseh wrote: »

Ik ben gewoon een Nederlander hoor...

I knew it! You're from Meath! :pac:

NIMAN

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A metro has been costed at around 4bn

But in Ireland I would guess that 4bn would end up being 10bn.

We tend to over-run a lot on capital projects in this country.

But I'd actually respect a Gov who said "we have a transport issue in Dublin, and we aren't sending any foreign aid for 5 yrs and building a metro".

Deebles McBeebles

machaseh wrote: »

I am just a Dutchman.

Je zit in je gat.

suicide_circus

machaseh wrote: »

Compared to my own country the netherlands, Ireland is abysmal when it comes to sustainable living.

In many dublin areas, trash is hardly separated. Everybody does everything by car. Public transport is ****e. There's hardly places to charge your electric car outside of Dublin. Trains aren't electrified. You cant even recycle your damn beer bottles properly in this dump of a country. It's a disgrace. And dont come here now with 'bUt We WeRe CoLoNizEd By ThE EnGlIsH', stop boohooing it's 2019 ye c****

Here's my plan to make Ireland way more sustainable over the next few decades.

- Electrify all major railway lines in Ireland. Dublin - Belfast, Dublin - Cork, Dublin - Galway, Dublin - Rosslare Europort etc. Increase train service to much higher levels than exists now.
- Vastly improve biking infrastructure in cities, especially in Dublin. Meaning bike paths PHYSICALLY SEPARATED from road traffic, a busline with a bike symbol simply isn't good enough. Every road where there is room for it should have these bike paths on the side as a standard, and corridors need to be made from the city center to the various suburbs so that people can safely, quickly and easily bike all over town cutting down strain on full public transportation and relieving road traffic and emissions.
- Build the damn metro in Dublin already, and also look towards small-scale Luas systems in Cork galway and belfast.
- Put an electric car charging point in every major town and at motorway service areas.
- Expand the luas in dublin to go to places such as Clongriffin, Rathfarnham, Blanchardstown etc.
- Expand Dart in dublin to Wicklow town, Balbriggan, Maynooth, Hazelhatch Celbridge etc.
- Make zoning laws so that low-density land in areas well-served by public transport is converted into mid-to high rise buildings with residential, commerical and offices.
- Enforce trash recycling in the entire country, including some dublin areas and private condos which handle their own trash, everything should be recycled. Also ienforce obligatory recycling of beer bottles, glass, plastic bottles etc. in any local supermarket.

It really is not that hard. It costs money, but guess what also costs money? How about not having Apple pay their fair share of taxes, probably costs a lot of money too. Also tax the rich and the multinationals and the property investors.

while everything you say may be true, calling a country in which you are a guest a "dump" is not a particularly good look.

machaseh

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

We can't build a bus lane, how are we going to build a metro. It will never get built.

People need to grow up a bit and Politicians need to just suck it up and loose some local votes for the common good.

And while I don't like a Dutchman calling my country a dump, I have to agree on most of the points on infrastructure.

We are too car dependent, we need to do something quickly before the quality of life completely goes out the window. People have to accept that there are not enough room for all the cars and we are going to have to get off our big fat arses and stop driving all time.

Completely agree with this.

I am pretty sure that the dysfunctional district voting system also doesn't help in getting things done, as politicians mainly focus on their own constituencies and lose track of the bigger picture.

suicide_circus wrote: »

while everything you say may be true, calling a country in which you are a guest a "dump" is not a particularly good look.

I am not a 'guest'. I am a EU citizen who is residing in Ireland legally and paying a whole lot of taxes of which I see little to nothing in terms of services. All so ye irish can live on the dole in yer council estates with big pitbulls in yer backyards locked up and going to the local in yer tracksuits for pints and watching the horse races.

Guests would be tourists or asylum seekers, not working expats like meself.

jimgoose

machaseh wrote: »

...I am not a 'guest'. I am a EU citizen...

Tell me - do they really pass you on the left-hand side? Surely you have to drive on the left here the same as everyone else??

Stevieluvsye

machaseh wrote: »

Completely agree with this.

I am pretty sure that the dysfunctional district voting system also doesn't help in getting things done, as politicians mainly focus on their own constituencies and lose track of the bigger picture.



I am not a 'guest'. I am a EU citizen who is residing in Ireland legally and paying a whole lot of taxes of which I see little to nothing in terms of services. All so ye irish can live on the dole in yer council estates with big pitbulls in yer backyards locked up and going to the local in yer tracksuits for pints and watching the horse races.

Guests would be tourists or asylum seekers, not working expats like meself.

You may not be a guest but you have a fcuking terrible attitude. If it's so bad, go home. Simple

4068ac1elhodqr

Forget Metro, even Monorail, 1,200 km/h Hyperloop is de futures.

facehugger99

A metro will cost literally billions - I could honestly see it costing between €5bn - €6bn. Not to mention the costs associated with the delays and disruption caused during the construction period.

For that type of money, you would be able to put in state of the art bus and cycling facilities, that would provide a lot more bang for your buck in terms of economic and environmental value.

People (i.e. voters) generally hate the idea of bikes and buses, and they seem to love the idea of metros, so I wouldn't be at all surprised for the politicians to accommodate the general ignorance and push ahead with a metro that will serve a very narrow corridor of the city.

Along with the National Broadband plan, it will be another massive waste of billions of taxpayer resources.

machaseh

facehugger99 wrote: »

A metro will cost literally billions - I could honestly see it costing between €5bn - €6bn. Not to mention the costs associated with the delays and disruption caused during the construction period.

For that type of money, you would be able to put in state of the art bus and cycling facilities, that would provide a lot more bang for your buck in terms of economic and environmental value.

People (i.e. voters) generally hate the idea of bikes and buses, and they seem to love the idea of metros, so I wouldn't be at all surprised for the politicians to accommodate the general ignorance and push ahead with a metro that will serve a very narrow corridor of the city.

Along with the National Broadband plan, it will be another massive waste of billions of taxpayer resources.

Well, car-dwellers are much easier to persuade into a tram or metro than into a bus, even if the bus is actually slightly faster. This is because a rail transportation system is simply a more premium product. Land values also rise significantly around Luas stops, because the infrastructure is there to stay. I am not going to buy a house because it's on the 155 bus route, because who knows, next year the route might have changed.

While I agree with you that more should also be done in terms of bike and bus infrastructure, we also really need to start looking towards expanding the LUAS system in Dublin and perhaps an underground metrolink, even if it doesn't go all the distance that was planned.