NBP part II

Marlow · 09-10-2019 11:07AM

listermint wrote: »

I'm a wisp user and am intrigued by the definition of broadband as you see it. Because there isn't a chance in hell it matches the standard in any consistent metric.

And on no plain does it give remotely fibre like qualities.

So you measure all WISPs by the standard that you are supplied with. With over 50 providers in the country and plenty of technologies around .. plus it also being very dependant on what bandwidth they have, what infrastructure, how much contention their network has and what gear they are using ...

how on earth is what you just stated an objective metric ?

That and the fact, that not all regional providers use wireless to provide broadband. But hey .. they can be ignored, too.

/M

Marlow · 09-10-2019 11:18AM

BandMember wrote: »

If the RISPA's were providing a service that is equal to that required under the NBP, there would be no need for an NBP. They're not, they can't, so there is one.

Erhm .. the NBP process was started when ? Technology has evolved faster than the NBP process and lots of infrastructure has been build while the process went on. And the regional providers were actually excluded from said NBP process. They have on top of that been put in an even worse position by revoking the 3.5 GHz licenses awarded, then outbid during the spectrum being auctioned off to mobile carriers on a national plan.

So .... you're way off with your statement.

Either way .. because of above, the department had to call for data from all providers again to ensure, that it is not putting tax payer money into a project that then undermines providers who actually measure to the standard that is required. Because that would be illegal and against competition rules, which invalidate the european funding needed for this project.

If by those submissions now 284k premises are put in question, then there is a good reason for this. And it was actually pointed out to the government previously, that there is a case, that there is that many premises, that should not be in the NBP.

Like it or not, but those are verifiable facts.

It then goes on to that the department still is not transparent and is still hiding, what actually is going on. For example, they have not given any information how many providers did submit data. Something, that should be absolutely no problem to release. Yet, they are completely avoiding giving out any information what so ever. How on earth can you trust them to do the right thing ? Especially with the MANs and previous national broadband plan disasters in mind.

With the way, this is carrying on, the 3bn are going into a black hole anyhow.

/M

listermint · 09-10-2019 11:28AM

Marlow wrote: »

So you measure all WISPs by the standard that you are supplied with. With over 50 providers in the country and plenty of technologies around .. plus it also being very dependant on what bandwidth they have, what infrastructure, how much contention their network has and what gear they are using ...

how on earth is what you just stated an objective metric ?

That and the fact, that not all regional providers use wireless to provide broadband. But hey .. they can be ignored, too.

/M

No I measure all wisps by the standard that the thousands of posts across these forums are with. Plus the folks that have had multiple different wisps experiences.

So there's that.

Over for example a bunch of wisps coming together pretending they are 'grade A awesome'

Pique · 09-10-2019 11:39AM

Totally scientific strawpoll created HERE

Marlow · 09-10-2019 11:40AM

listermint wrote: »

No I measure all wisps by the standard that the thousands of posts across these forums are with. Plus the folks that have had multiple different wisps experiences.

So there's that.

Over for example a bunch of wisps coming together pretending they are 'grade A awesome'

That is even worse. That measurement is completely inaccurate, inadequate and useless.

If you wanted to get anywhere near accuracy, then you would need to measure: how many subscribers does an ISP have and how many are complaining. The ones that have a functioning service don't generally turn up here.

Your logic is the same as: i have never heard of this ISP, so I will not sign up to them.

But you have just proven, that you are not interested in accuracy nor objective discussions.

/M

allanpkr · 09-10-2019 11:48AM

Marlow wrote: »

I have ... multiple times .. in this thread. With technical detail and capabilities. I am not going to repeat it just because you are too lazy to read back or remember, because you don't like the fact.

/M

marlow complains of abuse then abuses. fact is marlow keeps saying hes mentioned it many times but none of us have seen any facts relating to this . i mean facts that are a rezlity.

Orebro · 09-10-2019 11:53AM

Marlow wrote: »

Just because you say it's a lie, that does not make it a lie. What technical insight do you have that proves, that it's a lie ?

/M

I've already said I bow to your technical knowledge, can't get into an argument about that.

But I will continue to call out anyone trying to sell their snake oil on here.

allanpkr · 09-10-2019 12:06PM

lolol marlow on a rant again, trying to put across his biased opinion as facts. fact is wireless broadband served a purpose, as a customer we accepted it , cause it was our only option.
HOWEVER if marlow believes wireless broadband can match ftth for future needed bandwidth, then i wonder why he is so damn fearful of ftth. surely its just another competitor in an equel market. also although marlow blocked me, cause i called him out. show us FACTS show us actual download speeds of any wisp you like at 5.00 pm .... 10. pm and weekends.

Orebro · 09-10-2019 12:07PM

dashoonage · 09-10-2019 12:11PM

here someone hurry up there and give me an uncontended 100mbs wireless to me gaf there for 30 euro a month and quit all this ****e talk will ye, and no i cant cut the neighbors hedge for you.

Orebro · 09-10-2019 12:29PM

dashoonage wrote: »

here someone hurry up there and give me an uncontended 100mbs wireless to me gaf there for 30 euro a month and quit all this ****e talk will ye, and no i cant cut the neighbors hedge for you.

But wait! You'll hear lots of technical explanations about how fibre is contended and it's technically possible that it'll get all congested just like the WISPs are now :rolleyes: - they'll say anything to make it sound like fibre is not the correct way to go about this.

Ultimanemo · 09-10-2019 01:09PM

I haven't tried ALL the WISP but the ones I tried:
Irish broadband: Speed was 2 mbps, it was good stable but that was years ago
Three: Good during the day but not good in the evening
Eir: Ok during the day but slow in the evening
Vodafone: Good speed am and pm but capped at 250G per month
Lightnet: no coverage failed installation
Airwire: Poor coverage failed installation
Imagine: Very Good during the day and temperamental at peak times, today at 6:00 am it was 180 Mbps , normally 20 to 30 in the evening, but so often it goes down to 5 Mbps

BArra · 09-10-2019 01:41PM

would like to know who these wisp companies who can deliver 30mb plus speeds consistently during peak usage hours also.

am with nova in cork who are as bad as imagine from reading these forums. dreadful speeds in the evenings and weekends

Orebro · 09-10-2019 01:52PM

BArra wrote: »

would like to know who these wisp companies who can deliver 30mb plus speeds consistently during peak usage hours also.

am with nova in cork who are as bad as imagine from reading these forums. dreadful speeds in the evenings and weekends

Whats even worse about Nova is I have seen them actively advertising in places where Eir have just completed their 300k rollout, trying to get in the door before people realise there is a far superior option available to them.

tototoe · 09-10-2019 01:59PM

Orebro wrote: »

Whats even worse about Nova is I have seen them actively advertising in places where Eir have just completed their 300k rollout, trying to get in the door before people realise there is a far superior option available to them.

In all seriousness, what the hell do you think they would do. Stop selling because eir are rolling out fibre..they have the same info as everyone else as to when fibre goes live.

Some awful nonsense in this thread....on both sides of the argument.

Marlow · 09-10-2019 02:12PM

dashoonage wrote: »

here someone hurry up there and give me an uncontended 100mbs wireless to me gaf there for 30 euro a month and quit all this ****e talk will ye, and no i cant cut the neighbors hedge for you.

Erhm. You can not even get 100 Mbit/s uncontended on fibre in a datacentre in Dublin for 30 EUR.

And FTTH as deployed in Ireland using GPON is contended by design.

Dreamers award right there.

/M

dashoonage · 09-10-2019 02:25PM

Marlow wrote: »

Erhm. You can mot even get 100 Mbit/s uncontended on fibre in a datacentre in Dublin for 30 EUR.

And FTTH as deployed in Ireland using GPON is contended by design.

Dreamers award right there.

/M

less talk more bandwidth marlow!!!

i was clearly taking the piss.

uncle_sam_ie · 09-10-2019 02:45PM

BArra wrote: »

would like to know who these wisp companies who can deliver 30mb plus speeds consistently during peak usage hours also.

am with nova in cork who are as bad as imagine from reading these forums. dreadful speeds in the evenings and weekends

I'm with Nova too. Speeds are terrible with lots of disconnects. They said they'd be out to reposition my dish in 3 days. It's now 3 weeks and no sign of them. I can't change to another wisp because of line of site issues. They've all been out and I failed. So, my only option is to stick with Nova or back to the future with Eir's 2Mb line on off peek and a bit better then dial up at peek.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2019 02:50PM

For people asking who the WISPs are. Here are the members of RISPA.

https://rispa.ie/members/

Representatives from Whizzy, Net1, BBnet and Airwire appeared before the Communications Committee.

Pique · 09-10-2019 03:27PM

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

For people asking who the WISPs are. Here are the members of RISPA.

https://rispa.ie/members/

Representatives from Whizzy, Net1, BBnet and Airwire appeared before the Communications Committee.

Only 13 members from 50+ providers? My provider (with a presence in 6 counties) isn't a member, for example.

Interesting.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2019 03:30PM

Pique wrote: »

Only 13 members from 50+ providers? My provider (with a presence in 6 counties) isn't a member, for example.

Interesting.

It's all incredibly fragmented. These 13 seem to be making the most noise.

Marlow · 09-10-2019 03:43PM

dashoonage wrote: »

i was clearly taking the piss.

It is only clear to somebody who knows the market.

To any other average punter, you have now set the bar of what they expect.

/M

dashoonage · 09-10-2019 04:13PM

Marlow wrote: »

It is only clear to somebody who knows the market.

To any other average punter, you have now set the bar of what they expect.

/M

jaysus....

ussjtrunks · 09-10-2019 05:57PM

My Nova connection has been really stable lately, 50mb offpeak and 10-20 peak, its not brilliant but I don't get disconnects or anything and I play online games regularly so latency isnt an issue on my end. I have direct line of site to the Tower though so thats probably best case.

Imagine have started advertising in my area they put up advertising boards at every stop sign.

Fixed Wireless is never going to be good enough for where the future is going, 4k streaming 100gb games etc but It will prob hold us over for a year or two atleast aslong as you can get a stable signal.

Orebro · 09-10-2019 07:55PM

tototoe wrote: »

In all seriousness, what the hell do you think they would do. Stop selling because eir are rolling out fibre..they have the same info as everyone else as to when fibre goes live.

Some awful nonsense in this thread....on both sides of the argument.

Its daylight robbery is what it is, taking advantage of the fact that most don't know any better. Its akin to a salesman selling a dodgy car. But I suppose thats what a WISP business is based on, taking advantage of people in the unfortunate situation of not having a better choice. I've got my lightening speed 3Mbps WISP connection this evening to remind me - although according to Marlow its fine as they meet the NBP requirements :rolleyes: .

Marlow · 09-10-2019 08:02PM

Orebro wrote: »

Its daylight robbery is what it is, taking advantage of the fact that most don't know any better. Its akin to a salesman selling a dodgy car. But I suppose thats what a WISP business is based on, taking advantage of people in the unfortunate situation of not having a better choice. I've got my lightening speed 3Mbps WISP connection this evening to remind me - although according to Marlow its fine as they meet the NBP requirements :rolleyes: .

You display it as if those businesses are criminal. Way out of line there.

If it was not for a lot of these providers, there would have been no broadband in these areas at all in the last 15 years.

And a lot of these providers have evolved and upgraded their portfolio, even heavily invested in infrastructure to deliver these speeds.

So you think it is ok, to throw a large sum of money at a foreign investment group, to roll out a network to compete head on with these businesses using tax money?

That is the criminal element right there. Not the other way around. So yes .. any provider who gets buttered under and who was not consulted in the process is likely to fight this tooth and nail.

State aid can only be supplied if their is no service or the service is not within the standards outlined. The standards required are 30 Mbit/s now, 100 Mbit/s by 2025.

Additionally of whoever avails of said stateaid is required to build the network so that it is future proof. Correct. But that requirement is only for the portion that is tax funded. What happens in commercially served areas is being driven by competition.

If you are unhappy with the product you are buying and feel it is not delivering what it says on the tin can, then you need to take that up with the ASAI and Comreg.

You can not use tax money to fund competition were existing service is available. EU funds would also be withdrawn if that was to happen. And then the entire project would be jeopardized.

/M

allanpkr · 09-10-2019 08:08PM

dashoonage wrote: »

less talk more bandwidth marlow!!!

i was clearly taking the piss.

aah but marlow has just argued for the nbp as its condition is 150 mb and 500mb min after is it 10 yrs .. these are min requirements. thks marlow you are on nbp side.

allanpkr · 09-10-2019 08:12PM

dashoonage wrote: »

jaysus....

marlow admitting NBP bidder stating its min will be 150mb and after 10 yrs 500mb is a game changer that wisps and other ftth operatives cant compete with is most enlightening ......

ArrBee · 09-10-2019 08:26PM

Marlow wrote: »

You display it as if those businesses are criminal. Way out of line there.

If it was not for a lot of these providers, there would have been no broadband in these areas at all in the last 15 years.

And a lot of these providers have evolved and upgraded their portfolio, even heavily invested in infrastructure to deliver these speeds.

So you think it is ok, to throw a large sum of money at a foreign investment group, to roll out a network to compete head on with these businesses using tax money?

That is the criminal element right there. Not the other way around. So yes .. any provider who gets buttered under and who was not consulted in the process is likely to fight this tooth and nail.

State aid can only be supplied if their is no service or the service is not within the standards outlined. The standards required are 30 Mbit/s now, 100 Mbit/s by 2025.

Additionally of whoever avails of said stateaid is required to build the network so that it is future proof. Correct. But that requirement is only for the portion that is tax funded. What happens in commercially served areas is being driven by competition.

If you are unhappy with the product you are buying and feel it is not delivering what it says on the tin can, then you need to take that up with the ASAI and Comreg.

You can not use tax money to fund competition were existing service is available. EU funds would also be withdrawn if that was to happen. And then the entire project would be jeopardized.

/M

Can I just ask a question for clarity?
Are you saying that there are wisps today that meet the requirement to provide minimum speed of 30Mb now and can commit to providing a minimum of 100Mb which can be upgraded to 1Gb of the consumer chooses by 2025?

allanpkr · 09-10-2019 08:35PM

ArrBee wrote: »

Can I just ask a question for clarity?
Are you saying that there are wisps today that meet the requirement to provide minimum speed of 30Mb now and can commit to providing a minimum of 100Mb which can be upgraded to 1Gb of the consumer chooses by 2025?

un fair unfair, dont ask them what they cant give . make it easy for them .

NBP part II

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