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“Ireland has a rape culture”

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    #602
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    all this consent talk is nothing to do with rape.

    Rape is something committed by evil people with zero regards for their victim, whether it be a stranger or a wife etc.
    You dont need to "learn about consent" to know rape is wrong.
    Plenty of rapists know what is right and wrong and CHOOSE to ignore that. Those rapists are sick people that deserve life terms


    as for kuntz like the one in the opening post trying to convince people all men are potential rapists in this "rape culture" that only exists in her demented mind makes me feel less sympathy for what happened her


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    #603
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    all this consent talk is nothing to do with rape.

    Rape is something committed by evil people with zero regards for their victim, whether it be a stranger or a wife etc.
    You dont need to "learn about consent" to know rape is wrong.
    Plenty of rapists know what is right and wrong and CHOOSE to ignore that. Those rapists are sick people that deserve life terms

    Premeditated rape wouldn't be affected by discussing consent with young people. But if you think everyone has a perfect understanding of consent, then you're wrong. People haves all kinds of misunderstandings, thats why we do standardised education.

    I mentioned earlier about a bloke I lived with in uni. He was in his early 20s and he thought it wasn't possible to rape your girlfriend. He just thought that being in a relationship meant that sex was always on and the woman couldn't really refuse. He wasn't a sick, evil person who deserved life in prison. He was just a normal bloke with a really faulty understanding of consent. He didn't believe us when we told him so he asked his step dad and he straightened it out. He was really embarrassed afterwards bit he took it on the chin.

    To think that everyone has the same understanding of consent as you, is wrong. It's also wrong to think every who doesn't automatically understand consent without discussing it, is a sick rapist and should be locked up for life.


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    #604
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,045 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    Again. Women like sex. Prepare yourself, but sometimes...
    ... they don't like sex and don't want it...?

    Don't make me post the tea video!
    (**** it, I'll post the tea video - hold on)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

    They are even the aggressor :rolleyes:

    ... in which case their partner (male or female) also has the right to say no..?


    (The irony of people posting that we don't need consent videos while displaying a clear ignorance of consent awareness....!! :D )

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #605
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

    ... in which case their partner (male or female) also has the right to say no..?

    (And some people think we don't need to worry about teaching consent?!!)

    This is exactly what I was thinking. If someone is being the "aggressor" then they and their partner need to know all about consent.


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    #606
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Premeditated rape wouldn't be affected by discussing consent with young people. But if you think everyone has a perfect understanding of consent, then you're wrong. People haves all kinds of misunderstandings, thats why we do standardised education.

    I mentioned earlier about a bloke I lived with in uni. He was in his early 20s and he thought it wasn't possible to rape your girlfriend. He just thought that being in a relationship meant that sex was always on and the woman couldn't really refuse. He wasn't a sick, evil person who deserved life in prison. He was just a normal bloke with a really faulty understanding of consent. He didn't believe us when we told him so he asked his step dad and he straightened it out. He was really embarrassed afterwards bit he took it on the chin.

    To think that everyone has the same understanding of consent as you, is wrong. It's also wrong to think every who doesn't automatically understand consent without discussing it, is a sick rapist and should be locked up for life.

    Again, you keep bringing up this story and you are not giving any derails.

    Did he literally say that he could rape his girlfriend or did he say he did not have to ak for consent because he trysted her to say no?


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    #607
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    ... they don't like sex and don't want it...?

    Don't make me post the tea video!
    (**** it, I'll post the tea video - hold on)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ




    ... in which case their partner (male or female) also has the right to say no..?


    (The irony of people posting that we don't need consent videos while displaying a clear ignorance of consent awareness....!! :D )

    I am in awe of your intelligence ;)

    Yeah, I was more talking about a woman on top and controlling g the flow. Its funny how you immediately jumped to rape rather than just a woman using a man lime a dildo ;)


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    #608
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    Again, you keep bringing up this story and you are not giving any derails.

    Did he literally say that he could rape his girlfriend or did he say he did not have to ak for consent because he trysted her to say no?

    Neither. He didn't think consent came into it if you were in a relationship. He thought sex was always on when you're in a relationship. He didn't think the concept of rape in a relationship could even arise. Do you get it now?

    You're confused by his belief so the salient point is that You don't know what other people think. You understand things that other people don't understand. And the best way to straighten those things out is to simply discuss them with young people to straighten them out early.


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    #609
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

    Yeah, I was more talking about a woman on top and controlling g the flow. Its funny how you immediately jumped to rape rather than just a woman using a man lime a dildo ;)
    they didn't jump to rape. I certainly assumed you me a the "aggressor" was just the dominant sexual partner at the time. If you're doing power role play then you need to discuss consent and "safe words" to indicate change of consent Seems obvious to me and seems like a perfectly good example of what I've been talking about.


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    #610
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    they didn't jump to rape. I certainly assumed you me a the "aggressor" was just the dominant sexual partner at the time. If you're doing power role play then you need to discuss consent and "safe words" to indicate change of consent Seems obvious to me and seems like a perfectly good example of what I've been talking about.

    Dude, I'm not talking about power play. Just a normal srxual expression where the womans an active partner :S

    And, yes, they absolutely jumped to rape/sexual assault. That should clear up the thread a little as most posters are using rape interchangeably with sexual assault.


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    #611
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,045 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    I am in awe of your intelligence ;)

    Yeah, I was more talking about a woman on top and controlling g the flow. Its funny how you immediately jumped to rape rather than just a woman using a man lime a dildo ;)

    Think you've replied to wrong post here...?

    This one doesn't actually contain the word "rape".

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #612
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Think you've replied to wrong post here...?

    This one doesn't actually contain the word "rape".




    ... they don't like sex and don't want it...?


    And then you linked a consent video.



    Irregardless, you definetly saw it in a derogatory way rather than just a woman enjoying a man's masculinity :P

    Edit: I think it's time to hit the ignore list on this thread. G'luck everyone.


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    #613
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

    To think that everyone has the same understanding of consent as you, is wrong. It's also wrong to think every who doesn't automatically understand consent without discussing it, is a sick rapist and should be locked up for life.


    Where did I say that. ?


    oh wait, I didn't say that.



    Most people are aware rape is wrong regardless of whatever consent they were taught.


    What pisses me off is this whole conversion about consent as if the cow in the opening post made some valid point....SHE DID NOT.
    It was a wild unfounded accusation based on absolutely nothing but the feeling of a damaged person.


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    #614
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,045 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    ... they don't like sex and don't want it...?


    And then you linked a consent video.



    Irregardless, you definetly saw it in a derogatory way rather than just a woman enjoying a man's masculinity :P

    Edit: I think it's time to hit the ignore list on this thread. G'luck everyone.

    For you, that was some time ago. The point we're making - the lack of understanding between the words "consent" and "rape" - is something you actually keep illustrating better than we do.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #615
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    Dude, I'm not talking about power play. Just a normal srxual expression where the womans an active partner :S

    And, yes, they absolutely jumped to rape/sexual assault. That should clear up the thread a little as most posters are using rape interchangeably with sexual assault.

    I thought the word "aggressor" was supposed to mean what it says. If you meant the initiator or something like that, you could have said so instead of using the term "aggressor". Aggressor suggests power role play.

    It's almost as if this kind of thing benefits from discussion which highlights misunderstandings.


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    #616
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    For you, that was some time ago. The point we're making - the lack of understanding between the words "consent" and "rape" - is something you actually keep illustrating better than we do.


    This thread was about this supposed "rape culture".


    There is none, it was something one affected victim of rape spewed out and had people running around to find invalid reasons to make excuses for said ludicrous claim.



    If a person needs to be "taught" about consent, it does not bode well.
    It is like having to teach a kid killing is wrong, if the person is that type of mindset already, its a bad thing.


    Thankfully those that consent is an issue for is a minority of people,
    There is n o rape culture, and any one that thinks one exists is an idiot who bought the hype


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    #617
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    Where did I say that. ?

    oh wait, I didn't say that.

    Most people are aware rape is wrong regardless of whatever consent they were taught.
    We'll you said this
    "Rape is something committed by evil people with zero regards for their victim, whether it be a stranger or a wife etc.
    You dont need to "learn about consent" to know rape is wrong.
    Plenty of rapists know what is right and wrong and CHOOSE to ignore that. Those rapists are sick people that deserve life terms
    .

    And I pointed out one example of a guy I lived with who didn't know what rape was. He didn't know that it was rape to have sex with his girlfriend without consent.

    So no, not everyone knows about consent and not everyone knows what you know. And not everyone even knows what exactly is and isn't rape. Simple as that. And that's why discussing consent with young people is important.


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    #618
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,045 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    This thread was about this supposed "rape culture".


    There is none, it was something one affected victim of rape spewed out and had people running around to find invalid reasons to make excuses for said ludicrous claim.
    Agree with the "rape culture" myth, but I think it's proliferation is more down to the overly-feminist militant column (Coppinger included) than actual genuine rape victims.
    If a person needs to be "taught" about consent, it does not bode well.
    It is like having to teach a kid killing is wrong, if the person is that type of mindset already, its a bad thing.

    It's more the development of said mindset later in life. There have been numerous cases in the media where someone ended up on trial for rape or sexual assualt because they did know what consent was just assumed it or carried on (or didn't notice) after consent was revoked. Of course the party revoking consent also has a reponsibility to make it clear, but sometimes that's not possible (too drunk/high, unconscious).

    As I said non-consent does not automatically mean rape.
    Thankfully those that consent is an issue for is a minority of people,
    There is n o rape culture, and any one that thinks one exists is an idiot who bought the hype

    Agree.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #619
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    We'll you said this .

    And I pointed out one example of a guy I lived with who didn't know what rape was. He didn't know that it was rape to have sex with his girlfriend without consent.


    Then that guy is a retard., and not typical of the majority of people.


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    #620
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,555 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    Most people are aware rape is wrong regardless of whatever consent they were taught.
    I think virtually everybody is aware rape is wrong.

    I think there might be less awareness of what rape actually is in the eyes of the law.

    I've already posted it in this thread, but I'll post it again - a thread about a guy who got 3 1/2 years in prison for rape, and a serious discussion in the thread about whether it was a fair verdict or not. Plenty of people are happy with the verdict, but there is a good amount of 'hmmm...I'm not so sure' as well.


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057851437

    It wouldn't surprise me if the guy convicted in that case would never have imagined that what he had done constituted rape in the eyes of the law. It wouldn't surprise me if there are more guys like him in prison who felt the same.

    I don't have any issue at all with educating people on what is and isn't rape under Irish law.


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    #621
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    Then that guy is a retard., and not typical of the majority of people.

    OK assume he's retarded. There are retarded people out there. Don't you think it's a good idea to have these discussions with young people given there are retarded ones in their midst?

    PS the guy is a primary school teacher now so while his knowledge of Consent was completely wrong into his early 20s, he's a pretty normal guy apart from that.


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    #622
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    OK assume he's retarded. There are retarded people out there. Don't you think it's a good idea to have these discussions with young people given there are retarded ones in their midst?

    PS the guy is a primary school teacher now so while his knowledge of Consent was completely wrong into his early 20s, he's a pretty normal guy apart from that.


    by all means educate retarded people, but the average normal person knows rape is wrong, regardless of having to be taught that.
    In fact the majority of retarded people tend to be decent people who do not go around raping.



    Torturing animals, killing people, raping etc are things most rational humans know is inherently wrong, and do not need to be told it is wrong to realize it wrong.
    That cow in the opening post would have simpletons believe almost all men are rapists that thrive in this make believe rape culture.


    As a decent person, it pisses me off the media run stories like this and give time to women who spout such nonsense based on nothing but bitterness by one woman because of what happened to her decades ago,
    Seems its ok for women to berate all men based on nothing


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    #623
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    by all means educate retarded people, but the average normal person knows rape is wrong, regardless of having to be taught that.
    In fact the majority of retarded people tend to be decent people who do not go around raping.

    Torturing animals, killing people, raping etc are things most rational humans know is inherently wrong, and do not need to be told it is wrong to realize it wrong.

    Ah. An important distinction: the guy I'm referring to would certainly have know that rape is wrong. His mistake was on what exactly is and isn't rape. His mistake is bourn out of lack of knowledge of consent.

    I wonder about your assertion that everyone knows animal cruelty is wrong. I'd say almost everyone would agree that animal cruelty is wrong but they would also disagree about what exactly is and isn't animal cruelty. Internationally there are differences in what people consider to be animal cruelty. In fact, you'll find difference within Ireland. Lots of people consider the traveller's use of animal's to be cruel, but they don't.

    So if people don't learn about animal cruelty, how do they come to their understanding? Is it innate knowledge? I argue standards of animal treatment (and other standards like what exactly constitutes rape) are taught and learned. If you think that knowledge isn't taught, then I'd think again.


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    #624
    Enough is Enough!
    Site Banned Posts: 106 ✭✭Enough is Enough!


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    We'll you said this .

    And I pointed out one example of a guy I lived with who didn't know what rape was. He didn't know that it was rape to have sex with his girlfriend without consent.

    So no, not everyone knows about consent and not everyone knows what you know. And not everyone even knows what exactly is and isn't rape. Simple as that. And that's why discussing consent with young people is important.

    Dosen't prove ****. All it proves is that your friend is mentally deficient.


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    #625
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Enough is Enough! wrote: »
    Dosen't prove ****. All it proves is that your friend is mentally deficient.

    Maybe he is. It demonstrates there are "mentally deficient" people out there. He's a primary teacher now so he's well within the normal range for people. And still he had this faulty belief.

    There's no accounting for what other people know. Pretending everyone knows the same things you know, is foolish.


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    #626
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Program starting now BBC1 Panorama about Rape Culture and consent.

    Guy just said listen to her body, not her words.

    Should be interesting.


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    #627
    Enough is Enough!
    Site Banned Posts: 106 ✭✭Enough is Enough!


    anewme wrote: »
    Program starting now BBC1 Panorama about Rape Culture and PUA!

    Should be interesting.

    Should be completely biased you mean.


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    #628
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    The woman doesn't consent. It's rape.

    I just think rape should have different classifications, just like killing someone has different classifications.

    1st degree, 2nd degree, something like that.

    If I was going to be raped I would totally prefer it's an ex rather than a stranger. At least I know the ex has just temporarily lost her mind and isn't going to kill me, rather than having no information about my attacker.

    If we're actually SERIOUSLY talking about which type of rape we'd prefer I'd so much prefer a rape from a stranger than a partner because when it comes from a partner it's someone who is supposed to love you and yet still thinks they can abuse your body.

    Jesus Christ, you need help man.


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    #629
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    anewme wrote: »
    Program starting now BBC1 Panorama about Rape Culture and consent.

    Guy just said listen to her body, not her words.

    Should be interesting.

    I don't think these guys are representative or anything like it. But it demonstrates the are people with different beliefs about what is and isn't OK.


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    #630
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,987 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Enough is Enough! wrote: »
    Should be completely biased you mean.

    It's not complementary of pick up artists. Hard to tell if it's biased.


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    #631
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,680 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    anewme wrote: »
    Program starting now BBC1 Panorama about Rape Culture and consent.

    Guy just said listen to her body, not her words.

    Should be interesting.


    I thought it might be interesting and switched over to watch it, but when I heard this just now -


    “Even if she’s underage, it’s not illegal to stop someone”


    That’s enough of that then. Creepy fcuks.


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