The Strike is over. What happens now?

mf240 · 05-10-2019 07:20PM

Jaysus sure a big lamb would be heading for a third of that

Mooooo · 05-10-2019 09:09PM

visatorro wrote: »

Maybe these fleckveigh or however its spelt could be the answer. Ones iv seen are as good as any limousine cross cow iv ever seen. These weren't at the ploughing now. They could well be the answer but I heard that about montys before aswell! 2300 for calved heifers apparently. I'll let teagasc get the fleckveigh trails going before i go mad and buy a few!

Have 3 milking. Reckon theyll be eating too much compared to what they'll be putting out but time will tell. The mother would have to have milk, they won't raise volume or solids. Have hol/ fr heifers doing as much and more and weighing 60kgs less. One of them is off a big north American cow and she'll put out a fair bit alright but if she turns out like her mother she won't stop growing till her third lactation and she's the bones of 600kgs now in her first...

Base price · 05-10-2019 11:31PM

visatorro wrote: »

Maybe these fleckveigh or however its spelt could be the answer. Ones iv seen are as good as any limousine cross cow iv ever seen. These weren't at the ploughing now. They could well be the answer but I heard that about montys before aswell! 2300 for calved heifers apparently. I'll let teagasc get the fleckveigh trails going before i go mad and buy a few!

I would have thought that using tried and tested pure British Friesian semen would be better than trying the continental breeds.

Water John · 05-10-2019 11:41PM

We chased a NZ model, which was not suitable for this country, overall. The dairy and beef, had and need into the future a symbiotic relationship.
There should, years ago have been a public discussion, led by the Ag Minister of the day, as to what direction and breeding policy would be positive for all sectors.

Hard to see, in the medium term, that the suckler model being sustainable also.
That means much less 100% beef animals.

wrangler · 06-10-2019 06:48AM

Water John wrote: »

We chased a NZ model, which was not suitable for this country, overall. The dairy and beef, had and need into the future a symbiotic relationship.
There should, years ago have been a public discussion, led by the Ag Minister of the day, as to what direction and breeding policy would be positive for all sectors.

Hard to see, in the medium term, that the suckler model being sustainable also.
That means much less 100% beef animals.

Why do farmers need the government to hold their hands, are they not fit to do it for themselves, the dairy farmers that use poor performance beef genetics know exactly what they're doing and just don't care.
If you try to guide farmers in this country you get it kicked back in your face.....they're big boys/girls now, let them figure it out for themselves

Just an observation but farmers seem to be asked not to send cattle likely to grade O-. is this common or am I just talking to the few affected farmers.

Wanderer78 · 06-10-2019 06:56AM

wrangler wrote:

Why do farmers need the government to hold their hands, are they not fit to do it for themselves, the dairy farmers that use poor performance beef genetics know exactly what they're doing and just don't care. If you try to guide farmers in this country you get it kicked back in your face.....they're big boys/girls now, let them figure it out for themselves

Its common practice globally for governments to step in to 'help' certain industries, for example, our governments have helped mnc's, in particular in relation to policies that favour tax avoidance for decades, this has worked very much in our favour, as well as there's of course. American farmers are helped in the tune of multiples of billions annually by their government.

Bass Reeves · 06-10-2019 07:49AM

wrangler wrote: »

Why do farmers need the government to hold their hands, are they not fit to do it for themselves, the dairy farmers that use poor performance beef genetics know exactly what they're doing and just don't care.
If you try to guide farmers in this country you get it kicked back in your face.....they're big boys/girls now, let them figure it out for themselves

Just an observation but farmers seem to be asked not to send cattle likely to grade O-. is this common or am I just talking to the few affected farmers.

They do not need government to hold there hand but they do need research to be balanced and to react ito market changes. In agriculture we have had Teagasc which is the research unit for agriculture promote some unsuitable farming methods and follow them down dark ally's into a brick wall. Now it is not just them but other research projects as well. Issues that come to mind where reaction to change has been poor are outwintering pads and lagoons, outdoor cubicles, crossbreeding, u16 month bull beef, over efficiency on the beef side, not addressing to possible changes to nitrates on the milk side at present, the sums on heifer rearing at the start etc...

You seems to have a huge complex about fellow farmers.

orm0nd · 06-10-2019 08:02AM

visatorro wrote: »

Maybe these fleckveigh or however its spelt could be the answer. Ones iv seen are as good as any limousine cross cow iv ever seen. These weren't at the ploughing now. They could well be the answer but I heard that about montys before aswell! 2300 for calved heifers apparently. I'll let teagasc get the fleckveigh trails going before i go mad and buy a few!

a breed that seems to have disappeared totally is the MRI

I had x breds here off Br Fr. cows back in the time of early milk quota

quite milky with high solids and I used to get serious money for their LM x offspring sold as yearlings , the males going to the boat and heifers usually bought as suckler replacements

wrangler · 06-10-2019 08:25AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They do not need government to hold there hand but they do need research to be balanced and to react ito market changes. In agriculture we have had Teagasc which is the research unit for agriculture promote some unsuitable farming methods and follow them down dark ally's into a brick wall. Now it is not just them but other research projects as well. Issues that come to mind where reaction to change has been poor are outwintering pads and lagoons, outdoor cubicles, crossbreeding, u16 month bull beef, over efficiency on the beef side, not addressing to possible changes to nitrates on the milk side at present, the sums on heifer rearing at the start etc...

You seems to have a huge complex about fellow farmers.

You only need look at the beef forum, bord bia, teagasc, to see the abuse that's hurled at them, I saw bord bias Ceo being referred to as a'' tramp'' on Facebook beef plan. kinda sets a level doesn't it.
Farmers should be marking the changes themselves now, Clean Lamb Policy is two years in now and there's still farmers in our group that won't starve their lambs for a few hours before putting them in the lorry .......to selfish to see that they'll **** on clean lambs that they share the lorry with.

jaymla627 · 06-10-2019 08:29AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They do not need government to hold there hand but they do need research to be balanced and to react ito market changes. In agriculture we have had Teagasc which is the research unit for agriculture promote some unsuitable farming methods and follow them down dark ally's into a brick wall. Now it is not just them but other research projects as well. Issues that come to mind where reaction to change has been poor are outwintering pads and lagoons, outdoor cubicles, crossbreeding, u16 month bull beef, over efficiency on the beef side, not addressing to possible changes to nitrates on the milk side at present, the sums on heifer rearing at the start etc...

You seems to have a huge complex about fellow farmers.

The irony of your high ebi "environmentally friendly cow" been basically worthless as regards its progeny for the beef industry and its cull value itself shouldn't be lost on people teagasc have really sold lads a pup to anyone that's followed their rulebook to the last word

morphy87 · 06-10-2019 09:33AM

orm0nd wrote: »

a breed that seems to have disappeared totally is the MRI

I had x breds here off Br Fr. cows back in the time of early milk quota

quite milky with high solids and I used to get serious money for their LM x offspring sold as yearlings , the males going to the boat and heifers usually bought as suckler replacements

What is an mri cow? Bought simentals years ago off a man that had mri cows,supper cattle done great and graded great too

Water John · 06-10-2019 09:42AM

Norwegian Read might be another breed, to cross with Fr or Fr Hol.

Wrangler, you could have something there. Maybe it should have been an org that claimed to represent both dairy and beef farmers. Wonder who'd fit that description?

Hard Knocks · 06-10-2019 10:08AM

Is there many Ayrshires anymore?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-10-2019 10:18AM

orm0nd wrote: »

a breed that seems to have disappeared totally is the MRI

I had x breds here off Br Fr. cows back in the time of early milk quota

quite milky with high solids and I used to get serious money for their LM x offspring sold as yearlings , the males going to the boat and heifers usually bought as suckler replacements

They're still around but as sucklers mostly. Sold my last PB last year because she was a cross witch but have a few half and quarter breds still here. Great solids but milk volumes were poor in general.

The Rotbund are 75% MRI with up to 25% red holstein included to carry a bigger volume and there's a fair few herds milking around the country, I think. The calves can be a bit variable in confirmation but would still be an improvement on Holstein confirmation.

I moved away from them because the bulls have to be about 2 months old before they start to fill out and I wouldn't be keeping them that long.

Mooooo · 06-10-2019 10:30AM

Water John wrote: »

Norwegian Read might be another breed, to cross with Fr or Fr Hol.

Wrangler, you could have something there. Maybe it should have been an org that claimed to represent both dairy and beef farmers. Wonder who'd fit that description?

Again, they have no improvement over the hol/ fr. Yields or solids

Say my name · 06-10-2019 10:55AM

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

They're still around but as sucklers mostly. Sold my last PB last year because she was a cross witch but have a few half and quarter breds still here. Great solids but milk volumes were poor in general.

The Rotbund are 75% MRI with up to 25% red holstein included to carry a bigger volume and there's a fair few herds milking around the country, I think. The calves can be a bit variable in confirmation but would still be an improvement on Holstein confirmation.

I moved away from them because the bulls have to be about 2 months old before they start to fill out and I wouldn't be keeping them that long.

I used to work on a farm near Avoca, co. Wicklow that were crossing their cows with MRI.

I'd echo all in that post. Calves were born small and needed time to fill out to set them apart from freisian. Milk yield was a bit below the hol fr.

Crossbred stock were great though but you'd need to have a milky cow to cross with. The stock were lovely chunky stock.

Castlekeeper · 06-10-2019 08:53PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

Norwegian Read might be another breed, to cross with Fr or Fr Hol.

Wrangler, you could have something there. Maybe it should have been an org that claimed to represent both dairy and beef farmers. Wonder who'd fit that description?

Again, they have no improvement over the hol/ fr. Yields or solids

Thet have better health and vitality, bull calf price, less supplementart feed required, with no loss of yield.

Mooooo · 06-10-2019 09:03PM

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Thet have better health and vitality, bull calf price, less supplementart feed required, with no loss of yield.

Health is supposed to be their main point alright. Neighbour started out crossing with nr and using je on heifers. He is now gone to b&w high ebi, still a bit of je on heifers. Dropped the nr. I bought some cow's off him, 4 of which first cross nr off hol/fr cows these would be 5th or 6th lactation. Calves made no more than my own cow's calves yields no more than others and by size about 600kgs. Reckons they don't add much to the equation, health would have been his main reason for going with them initially and he had a fairly solid hol/ fr herd starting off with

Castlekeeper · 06-10-2019 09:41PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Thet have better health and vitality, bull calf price, less supplementart feed required, with no loss of yield.

Health is supposed to be their main point alright. Neighbour started out crossing with nr and using je on heifers. He is now gone to b&w high ebi, still a bit of je on heifers. Dropped the nr. I bought some cow's off him, 4 of which first cross nr off hol/fr cows these would be 5th or 6th lactation. Calves made no more than my own cow's calves yields no more than others and by size about 600kgs. Reckons they don't add much to the equation, health would have been his main reason for going with them initially and he had a fairly solid hol/ fr herd starting off with

If the calves were off HFr they'd be 75%, so one would hardly expect a difference.
Teargasc just dropped them, understandably, in favour if our own IHFA and NZ Jex so few would have used them or persist, it wouldn't have been based in merit.
That they've lasted to their 5/6th lactation isn't bad.

kk.man · 06-10-2019 09:56PM

TBH from chatting to most diary farmers around here they don't care about the bull calf it's all high yielding cows that matter and I don't see it changing soon.

Water John · 06-10-2019 10:00PM

Well they will be made rear those calves, both by the Dept of Ag and their milk processor. This was flagged as the main reason for Glanbia opting out of the Greenfield project. Bobby calves won't be tolerated.

jaymla627 · 07-10-2019 06:09AM

Water John wrote: »

Well they will be made rear those calves, both by the Dept of Ag and their milk processor. This was flagged as the main reason for Glanbia opting out of the Greenfield project. Bobby calves won't be tolerated.

Department of agriculture would have to get EU law changes prohibiting it, milk processors can of course once they pay a bonus to reflect the cost of rearing these worthless calves our more then likely use the stick approach need to be careful though you can't be adopting arla type welfare calf standards and be paying less than fonterra prices it won't wash with dairy farmers

whelan2 · 07-10-2019 08:18AM

I have Norwegian red calves being born at the minute. The bull I am using is polled. I value the sale of my calves and culls. Jersey has not for me at all.

Bass Reeves · 07-10-2019 08:54AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Department of agriculture would have to get EU law changes prohibiting it, milk processors can of course once they pay a bonus to reflect the cost of rearing these worthless calves our more then likely use the stick approach need to be careful though you can't be adopting arla type welfare calf standards and be paying less than fonterra prices it won't wash with dairy farmers

There is already movement on this in the UK. Glanbia are already half on the case. Is there much difference between a lower base and a 3-5c/L bonus for commercial calves and a higher base and penalty for using a bobby scheame. TBH I can understand dairy farmers wish to use a cow type that suits there system. But the assumption that evey calf has a commercial value is flawed. There is a few other issues as well lots of dairy farmers expect to throw out very poor quality AA calves as well. This is lnow transferring back down to calf buyers which is effecting calf price and making more and more calves non commercial.

Muckit · 07-10-2019 08:58AM

It could be beef farmers backing up the dairy farmers at the next picket!!

jaymla627 · 07-10-2019 08:59AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is already movement on this in the UK. Glanbia are already half on the case. Is there much difference between a lower base and a 3-5c/L bonus for commercial calves and a higher base and penalty for using a bobby scheame. TBH I can understand dairy farmers wish to use a cow type that suits there system. But the assumption that evey calf has a commercial value is flawed. There is a few other issues as well lots of dairy farmers expect to throw out very poor quality AA calves as well. This is lnow transferring back down to calf buyers which is effecting calf price and making more and more calves non commercial.

Issue with Glanbia will be they could realistically have milk at 25 cent a litre and then force through a no Bobby policy for 2021 with no financial incentive, they'll point to the scheme they are doing but that ties you to buying all inputs from that which is ludacris for both the dairy and beef farmer signed up to it.....
Whatever policy going forward is coming in from co-ops it needs to be put out their now so sheds and facilitates are put in place to handle these calves our even to make lads ramping up numbers to be factoring in the calf issue and hammer home they won't be allowed to Bobby them

Bass Reeves · 07-10-2019 09:03AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Issue with Glanbia will be they could realistically have milk at 25 cent a litre and then forced through a no Bobby policy for 2021 with no financial incentive, they'll point to the scheme they are doing but that ties you to buying all inputs from that which is ludacris for both the dairy and beef farmer signed up to it

There is another issue with the Glanbia scheme AFAIR it also penalized P grade cattle in 2-3 years time and has a carcass weigh limit as well. This rules out poorer quality JEX and extreme HO cattle even if grading is easy As you say as well there demand that you buy inputs from them is not commercially realistic in a tight beef game. I find it hard to understand how they got so many lads to sign up for the scheme

jaymla627 · 07-10-2019 09:12AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is another issue with the Glanbia scheme AFAIR it also penalized P grade cattle in 2-3 years time and has a carcass weigh limit as well. As you say as well there demand that you buy inputs from them is not commercially realistic in a tight beef game. I find it hard to understand how they got so many lads to sign up for the scheme

Have to get written and signed quotes from rep here when buying fertiliser of them, price quoted over phone/in person will magically jump 20-30 euro a ton when invoiced unless I have the signed quote, gave them a shot at buying 100 ton of meal for the year in August that would of been coming in at a 30 euro discount with trading bonus and they still couldn't match a large indepenadent merchant on price even with discount, and quality would be questionable with Glanbias lucky bag meal

Water John · 07-10-2019 09:32AM

Funny, similar problem with Dairygold ration. Most guys will tell you it's crap, cow never filled. Even a very high person in the Coop refused to buy any of his ration from them.

The only thing fairly certain is, dairy farmers will, at least, have to hold onto their bobby type calves a good bit longer next spring. I see Teagasc were already putting out advice on this.

mf240 · 07-10-2019 12:00PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Have to get written and signed quotes from rep here when buying fertiliser of them, price quoted over phone/in person will magically jump 20-30 euro a ton when invoiced unless I have the signed quote, gave them a shot at buying 100 ton of meal for the year in August that would of been coming in at a 30 euro discount with trading bonus and they still couldn't match a large indepenadent merchant on price even with discount, and quality would be questionable with Glanbias lucky bag meal

Got shafted over a lorry of fert with them a few years ago. Wouldn't be in a hurry back.

The Strike is over. What happens now?

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