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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

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    #3032
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,588 ✭✭✭✭briany


    sondagefaux wrote: »
    Strictly speaking there would be no legal requirement to hold a referendum in the UK in order to revoke its current notification of intent to leave the EU.

    But it's very doubtful that the UK parliament would pass an act of parliament to revoke the notification, even if the European Council refused an extension and they had to choose within days between ratifying the Withdrawal Agreement as it stands, crashing out with No Deal and revoking.

    Farage would love it. Their printers would be working overtime to pump out sheets of A4 paper with #BETRAYAL on them to be held over the heads of attendees at each and every Brexit Party rally from now on.


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    #3033
    reslfj
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭reslfj


    GM228 wrote: »
    Sorry I mis-read the post, but whilst it may frustrate the workings of the European Commission (i.e it could not work in accordance with the provisions of the TFEU), but, that does not in effect throw them out of Europe.
    Article 17 Treaty on European Union wrote:
    5. As from 1 November 2014, the Commission shall consist of a number of members, including its President and the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, corresponding to two thirds of the number of Member States, unless the European Council, acting unanimously, decides to alter this number.

    The EU Commission is meant to work with a number of commissioners equal to 2/3 (=18/19) of the number states.

    The EU Council has until now unanimously decided that all members can have one commissioner all the time. It's more a right and benefit for members than a necessity for the Commission to be legal and operational.

    Lars :)


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    #3034
    roosterman71
    Registered Users Posts: 5,414 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Just seen this on the twitter machine

    https://twitter.com/electionlit/status/1180171745271123969?s=20


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    #3035
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Telegraph tomorrow saying Johnson wants Hungary to veto extension and has his hopes pinned on it!


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    #3036
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,439 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Telegraph tomorrow saying Johnson wants Hungary to veto extension and has his hopes pinned on it!

    You can be sure it's a meddlesome misdirection if the Torygraph is printing it.


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    #3037
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,602 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Telegraph tomorrow saying Johnson wants Hungary to veto extension and has his hopes pinned on it!

    Sure, but he's sticking on the basis that they will agree to that.

    However perhaps he has found a way to, sweeten the deal, so to speak.

    That's before we discuss the hypocrisy of the claims about remainers 'working with other countries' against the national interest in light of this.


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    #3038
    maebee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭maebee


    Jeffrey Archer on the LLS now plugging his latest book. Will be interesting to hear his views on Brexit when Tubs brings it up.

    Scrap that. He was rubbish


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    #3039
    A Shropshire Lad
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭A Shropshire Lad


    The extension in March was a tough enough sell. Wasnt it Juncker who said "dont waste this time" to the UK back then

    How is this extension going to be sold ?


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    #3040
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,439 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    maebee wrote: »
    Jeffrey Archer on the LLS now plugging his latest book. Will be interesting to hear his views on Brexit when Tubs brings it up

    He knows as much as us. Bemoaning all the shouting in the HOC nowadays, I seem to remember plenty of it in Thatcher's time, his heyday.


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    #3041
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    NO DEAL will not happen now.

    All the signs are there from UK apart from admitting that. And it was ever thus.

    The rest of it is pantomime and wishful thinking in a post colonial mindset. Or some such superior attitude.

    But we shall see.


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    #3042
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    devnull wrote: »
    Sure, but he's sticking on the basis that they will agree to that.

    However perhaps he has found a way to, sweeten the deal, so to speak.

    That's before we discuss the hypocrisy of the claims about remainers 'working with other countries' against the national interest in light of this.

    If he persuades the Hungarians to veto the extension, that would mean a no deal exit on 31st Oct.
    What happens on 1st Nov? Probably chaos, because no trading arrangements will then exist between the UK and the EU.
    Will that look like a victory to BoJo and his Tory colleagues or will it finally bring it home to the hard Brexiteers just what a no-deal exit looks like!


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    #3043
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,588 ✭✭✭✭briany


    A Shropshire Lad wrote: »
    The extension in March was a tough enough sell. Wasnt it Juncker who said "dont waste this time" to the UK back then

    How is this extension going to be sold ?

    It's true that the UK has all but wasted the last six months with four months of doing little else than talking their game up, and less than two months of actual meaningful action. So that's a negative.

    As a sort of positive, though, the UK government does look to be teetering on the brink of collapse, with a GE being pretty much in the hands of the opposition if and when they decide to agree to one. The EU could figure that an extension is worth granting on the basis that they might as well give a few more months to see if a new UK government produces any decisive movement.


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    #3044
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,299 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Telegraph tomorrow saying Johnson wants Hungary to veto extension and has his hopes pinned on it!

    That is so pathetic. Actually pathetic. Taking back control. Give me a break. What has Britain been reduced to by these supine craven charlatans!?


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    #3045
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Scoondal wrote: »
    Hungary has already rejected EU laws. They like the benefits of EU membership but ignore their obligations. It's disgusting. Have EU imposed fines on Hungary ?
    Does Hungary know about the UN signed peace agreement in Northern Ireland ?
    Probably not. Hungary is showing its ignorance to everyone now.

    Another way of thinking of it is that so long as the "Brits are at it again, all day every day" it keeps the heat off them. A veto by them would make them public enemy no1 next for more than just the veto but so long as theyre at it it keeps them under the radar to enough of a degree to get away with it.


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    #3046
    Castlekeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,734 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    Looks to be either a Boris bluff or else the first step in throwing the DUP under the famous bus/ special status for NI. Given that the DUP have now accepted the principal if an Irish sea-border, and apart from a PR pov have no value, perhaps we could be on the way down the tunnel to the best of all worlds, ie Ireland OK Britain back in the 70s?


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    #3047
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,540 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Me thinks Hungary are merely playing the UK here.

    Listen to what they have to offer and only use the veto if there is no way an extension would be passed anyway.

    It would have to be something pretty enormous to persuade them to go against the EU. Which of course calls into question the value of Brexit at all.


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    #3048
    Injuryprone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    Looks to me that Boris is looking to gather as many chips as he can to bring to the negotiation table whenever they meet. He believes that the threat of no deal will get him what he wants and he's trying to keep it on the table.

    Up to now, they've been throwing it out there that they have a way around the Benn act that they're keeping secret. I personally don't think they have, but the pretence does kind of keep no deal on the table.

    This meeting with the Hungarians seemed to me to be far too public for it to be a real threat of a veto. But it does enable them to say that an extension isn't guaranteed from now on, and no deal is back on the table.

    I don't think that even Boris would be stupid enough to do a deal with another country against his own. He'll be going to jail if he did


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    #3049
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,299 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Me thinks Hungary are merely playing the UK here.

    Listen to what they have to offer and only use the veto if there is no way an extension would be passed anyway.

    It would have to be something pretty enormous to persuade them to go against the EU. Which of course calls into question the value of Brexit at all.

    What would be funny is the Tories watching on as Hungary sit on their hands and approve the extension..

    If that's their grand plan - it's a shaky one


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    #3050
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Me thinks Hungary are merely playing the UK here.

    Listen to what they have to offer and only use the veto if there is no way an extension would be passed anyway.

    It would have to be something pretty enormous to persuade them to go against the EU. Which of course calls into question the value of Brexit at all.

    I think Hungary will only play pawn to the UK if it is made aware opinion in the EU shifts against allowing an extension. Might prove useful to let Hungary take the public heat for a veto rather than refuse an extension.


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    #3051
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Injuryprone wrote: »
    Looks to me that Boris is looking to gather as many chips as he can to bring to the negotiation table whenever they meet. He believes that the threat of no deal will get him what he wants and he's trying to keep it on the table.

    Up to now, they've been throwing it out there that they have a way around the Benn act that they're keeping secret. I personally don't think they have, but the pretence does kind of keep no deal on the table.

    This meeting with the Hungarians seemed to me to be far too public for it to be a real threat of a veto. But it does enable them to say that an extension isn't guaranteed from now on, and no deal is back on the table.

    I don't think that even Boris would be stupid enough to do a deal with another country against his own. He'll be going to jail if he did

    I think this kind of trick would be countered by the opposition going straight for revoke - citing the disgraceful and devious carry on of BJ. They could tie that into a future referendum.


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    #3052
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Telegraph tomorrow saying Johnson wants Hungary to veto extension and has his hopes pinned on it!

    Jesus, that is just incredible.


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    #3053
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    briany wrote: »
    It's true that the UK has all but wasted the last six months with four months of doing little else than talking their game up, and less than two months of actual meaningful action. So that's a negative.

    As a sort of positive, though, the UK government does look to be teetering on the brink of collapse, with a GE being pretty much in the hands of the opposition if and when they decide to agree to one. The EU could figure that an extension is worth granting on the basis that they might as well give a few more months to see if a new UK government produces any decisive movement.

    There's no reason to believe that unfortunately.
    Infini wrote: »
    Another way of thinking of it is that so long as the "Brits are at it again, all day every day" it keeps the heat off them. A veto by them would make them public enemy no1 next for more than just the veto but so long as theyre at it it keeps them under the radar to enough of a degree to get away with it.

    Sorry to say but that is utter hogwash. The UK are really treading the line here. They might genuinely become some weird, freakish pariah state in Europe with this carry on.


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    #3054
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,366 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Jesus, that is just incredible.

    Or it illustrates how badly Cummings and Johnson have played this. He is being exposed as a lightweight precisely because he is a lightweight. And so, he's running out of depths to which he can sink.


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    #3055
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Or it illustrates how badly Cummings and Johnson have played this. He is being exposed as a lightweight precisely because he is a lightweight. And so, he's running out of depths to which he can sink.

    Yet half the population are in thrall to him. His [short term] domestic prospects are quite good. Despite his disgraceful carry on.


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    #3056
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,366 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Yet half the population are in thrall to him. His domestic prospects are quite good. Despite his disgraceful carry on.

    Yeah. However, you have to assume that when the sh1t hits the fan then people know which side their bread is buttered on. Terrible mixing of metaphors but when it's Johnson... The fact is that the UK is badly served by the leaders of their parties. Maybe it's a false comparison, but Vradakar, Martin or Coveney would be infinitely better than Johnson or Corbyn. Or even Swinson, Not Sturgeon though.


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    #3057
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,439 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I think this kind of trick would be countered by the opposition going straight for revoke - citing the disgraceful and devious carry on of BJ. They could tie that into a future referendum.

    I honestly don't think there is a political party with the cahonas to hit the Revoke button tbh.
    They all seem petrified of the electorate. To get No Deal off the table took an agonizing long time to do.


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    #3058
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Telegraph tomorrow saying Johnson wants Hungary to veto extension and has his hopes pinned on it!
    Jesus, that is just incredible.
    In completely unrelated news, Hungarian Foreign Minster Péter Szijjártó was seen on Wednesday morning leaving the UK's Cabinet Office together with Ambassador Kristóf Szalay-Bobrovniczky. Mr Szijjártó was there presumably to reiterate Hungary's September position that Hungary wouldn't take a position.

    https://twitter.com/ResistersLondon/status/1179781814564638721


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    #3059
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Former Australian PM Julia Gillard reminds the UK that, in trading terms, the UK lags behind Singapore:

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1180084022992441344


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    #3060
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Orban has form in letting the Tories and UKIP/Brexiteers down when it comes to where his best interests are. His party decided to stay in the European Peoples Party Group in the European Parliament even though the Conservative Party was leaving for another group. Then when the EPP were thinking of expelling Orban's party, Merkel's party decided it was better to keep your enemies close, so they are still in that grouping in the European Parliament which is where they want to be as its the most influential grouping in the EU. Orban likes to stir it up in the EU, but always manages to draw the line just short of going too far.


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    #3061
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    robindch wrote: »
    In completely unrelated news, Hungarian Foreign Minster Péter Szijjártó was seen on Wednesday morning leaving the UK's Cabinet Office together with Ambassador Kristóf Szalay-Bobrovniczky. Mr Szijjártó was there presumably to reiterate Hungary's September position that Hungary wouldn't take a position.

    https://twitter.com/ResistersLondon/status/1179781814564638721

    So, that just confirms that Hungary is not going to veto the extension. Maybe they just want to give the impression that some arrangement is being made with the Hungarians, (while the real deal is being made with someone else).


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