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The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    The weak in society are crying about the film before they have even seen it thinking it is some film made for Right wing Trump supporters so they are angry on principle alone, They should just shut up until they have seen it for themselves and try not to see everything through a skewed political lens, art is art,


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mrcaramelchoc


    Caught an early screening of JOKER last night and holy ****, what a movie. The TAXI DRIVER / KING OF COMEDY inspiration is obvious, but it also boasts some serious DEATH WISH vibes, and feels like the riskiest mainstream film since NATURAL BORN KILLERS.

    Comments from someone in a FB group I'm in.

    I hope their not right ! Natural born killers was banned here.don't go banning joker now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭kerplun k


    It's a crazy time that we live in right now.

    You can’t talk about a film these days without mentioning things like social justice, woke politics, left/right agendas. I guess it’s just something that we’ll have to get used too. It’s part of the industry now.

    Even if unintentional, movies seem to be falling into different sides of a political spectrum, or if I was too look at one of PBs quotes, “Art is not created in a vacuum”... so maybe there always has been a political influence, but it’s only now that it’s become a major talking point.

    If Silence of the Lambs was released today, would it be considered non-PC and be accused of glamorizing serial killers? John Wick got off very lightly considering the gun violence in that. I wonder how many NRA members walked out of that thinking it was the best thing ever :D

    It’s funny how Marvel and DC seem to be falling into different sides of the political spectrum, especially when you compare the political hysteria that surrounded the release of Captain Marvel against the hysteria attached to Joker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,927 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Got to see this movie tonight. It's fantastic!! Jaoquin Phoenix is superb. An amazing performance. Really enjoyed it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    kerplun k wrote: »

    It’s funny how Marvel and DC seem to be falling into different sides of the political spectrum, especially when you compare the political hysteria that surrounded the release of Captain Marvel against the hysteria attached to Joker.

    Before Captain Marvel arrived on the big screen we had Wonder Woman, a film with a wonderfully positive message embraced by all sides. The film was also directed by a talented woman that Marvel Studios sacked previously.

    The upcoming BoP (directed by a female minority) is a continuation of that but whether it hits the mark is another thing. DC made such moves before Marvel did, so I think it's a little unfair to accuse them of being at odds on the political "position" they're taking.

    I meam after all, we wouldn't have gotten Aquaman or Justice League as they ended up being if WB didn't feel the pressure to take a lighter, more positive, mentality. Shazam with its diverse cast and fun story reinforced that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    GBX wrote: »
    Got to see this movie tonight. It's fantastic!! Jaoquin Phoenix is superb. An amazing performance. Really enjoyed it.

    He was dreadful in the trailer.

    Does he come across better in the movie?

    Is he up there with Nicholson and Ledger or a damp squib like Clooney?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,927 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    He was dreadful in the trailer.

    Does he come across better in the movie?

    Is he up there with Nicholson and Ledger or a damp squib like Clooney?

    Definitely up there with the best. His overall performance is top notch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    GBX wrote: »
    Definitely up there with the best. His overall performance is top notch.

    Christ the trailer really did him a disservice then so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,171 ✭✭✭Man Vs ManUre


    Can the title of this thread be changed?? The name of the film is ‘Joker’ not ‘The Joker’. Such schoolboy errors cannot be tolerated. Failure to prepare then prepare to fail.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭kerplun k


    Before Captain Marvel arrived on the big screen we had Wonder Woman, a film with a wonderfully positive message embraced by all sides. The film was also directed by a talented woman that Marvel Studios sacked previously.

    The upcoming BoP (directed by a female minority) is a continuation of that but whether it hits the mark is another thing. DC made such moves before Marvel did, so I think it's a little unfair to accuse them of being at odds on the political "position" they're taking.

    I meam after all, we wouldn't have gotten Aquaman or Justice League as they ended up being if WB didn't feel the pressure to take a lighter, more positive, mentality. Shazam with its diverse cast and fun story reinforced that.

    Ah, yeah, I was just making an observation on the two that did whip up a political storm. but your right, there's plenty that remained largely untouched.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭MOR316


    Can the title of this thread be changed?? The name of the film is ‘Joker’ not ‘The Joker’. Such schoolboy errors cannot be tolerated. Failure to prepare then prepare to fail.

    'Ay up, Roy Keane is online


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    Christ the trailer really did him a disservice then so.

    I'd wager you're in the minority there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Forgot to say don't read Donald Clarke's review - it's very positive but he casually drops a big spoiler as if it was nothing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    I'd wager you're in the minority there.

    Can't agree more.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Forgot to say don't read Donald Clarke's review - it's very positive but he casually drops a big spoiler as if it was nothing.

    Not for the first time: I kinda avoid his reviews as I don't like his style & perspective on cinema anyway, but he seems prone to dropping whoppers. As do a lot of newspaper critics I've found, wonder why that is.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,184 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Not for the first time: I kinda avoid his reviews as I don't like his style & perspective on cinema anyway, but he seems prone to dropping whoppers. As do a lot of newspaper critics I've found, wonder why that is.

    Newspaper reviewers usually aren’t given the opportunity to revisit a film - the initial review kind of has to serve as their ‘definitive take’ on a film. Therefore it has to serve two purposes: a general ‘should you watch this?’ (Honestly I think the star rating or rotten tomatoes score typically more than suffices in that regard) but also a critical analysis of the film itself. The latter is hard to achieve without getting into at least some specifics. When you’re only going to get one chance to talk about a film in print, you need to think about that balance (personally, I feel too many critics are too reticent to get into the nitty gritty, but that’s IMO).

    As for Clarke more generally and outside this particular case, he’s often publicly criticised and mocked the ‘spoiler police’ who almost actively look for any broad plot details about imminent superhero gubbins to give out about (you see it with a lot of the MCU stuff). Honestly I’m on his side in that respect - while I’d draw the line with big, late, film-changing surprises or developments being described without fair warning or when done with malicious intent, I do believe critics have far more leeway with getting into specifics than many will tolerate. My view is that reviews have far more value after you see a film, and that far outweighs the narrow buffer zone of time between a critic seeing a film and general release. I just don’t read reviews until after the fact if I want to go in blind :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭Shred


    I stopped reading reviews before I see a film years ago, none of them can be trusted if you ask me. I might read them afterwards to see if I agree.


  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭Ethereal Cereal


    Forgot to say don't read Donald Clarke's review - it's very positive but he casually drops a big spoiler as if it was nothing.

    I f**king hate Donal Clarke for that, he always spoils the movies, I think he does it on purpose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Newspaper reviewers usually aren’t given the opportunity to revisit a film - the initial review kind of has to serve as their ‘definitive take’ on a film. Therefore it has to serve two purposes: a general ‘should you watch this?’ (Honestly I think the star rating or rotten tomatoes score typically more than suffices in that regard) but also a critical analysis of the film itself. The latter is hard to achieve without getting into at least some specifics. When you’re only going to get one chance to talk about a film in print, you need to think about that balance (personally, I feel too many critics are too reticent to get into the nitty gritty, but that’s IMO).
    Given the inability of a frankly shocking number of people to understand how the scoring on Rotten Tomatoes work, I'd argue a thumbs up/down system would serve this purpose better. Nothing of value would be lost under such a system, marketing departments plastering their advertising with 4 and 5 star reviews from questionable sources and audiences quibbling over which film is the most under or over rated be damned, while it would be made easier to simply recommend a film be seen based on either the films own merit or what the particular audience member is expecting going in.

    The Siskel & Ebert review of Rambo III is a timely example of this, what with Last Blood seemingly splitting critical and audience opinions for similar reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    I'd wager you're in the minority there.

    Whether I’m in the minority or not I still thought he was awful in the trailer.

    I’ll give it a watch but based on the trailer I’m not expecting much.

    How’s it reviewing?

    78% on rotten tomatoes I see.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Shred wrote: »
    I stopped reading reviews before I see a film years ago, none of them can be trusted if you ask me. I might read them afterwards to see if I agree.

    I wouldn't agree that "none of" any reviews can be trusted: critics are no different to people in that tastes will differ; so the trick for me is to find those whose broad preferences run roughly parallel to my own. This - for instance - would be why I listen to Kerdmode's podcast, even if there's still deviance between his & my own tastes. In terms of spoilers, he's also fairly circumspect, where possible keeping things to a sense of tone or the texture of a film, rather than plot details.

    It's easy to find critics you don't like, and equally easy to use that as a rod to batter all critics; not having a shot at you Shred, but I'm a bit done with this whole "x% crtics vs. X% audience" rationale that crops up these days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭IITYWYBMAD


    78% on rotten tomatoes I see.
    From less than 170 critics.

    I get your "not going to be swayed by the crowd" type attitude, but I would really wait until I have seen the movie before passing judgment on it.

    I find it absolutely bizarre that you're being so swayed by a trailer lasting 2 odd minutes, irrespective of your opinion on it. There will be tens of thousands of reviews on RT by his time next month, but it won't affect my opinion of the movie one way or the other, as I'll be seeing it (and making up my own mind) on Friday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 AaronMan


    I watched the trailer a couple of months ago, when it came out, and I simply didn't like it. I rate Joaquin Phoenix as a great actor, but the trailer simply didn't work for me. At all. And I generally say that if they can't even make the trailer looking good, what chances does the movie have?

    However, after the Venice film festival standing ovations and rave reviews, I have to admit that I've become quite interested to watch it. Assuming that the mentioned reviews were not part of the marketing trick. Anyway, I am looking forward to see what more people will say here about the movie after watching it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,553 ✭✭✭murphyebass


    AaronMan wrote: »
    I watched the trailer a couple of months ago, when it came out, and I simply didn't like it. I rate Joaquin Phoenix as a great actor, but the trailer simply didn't work for me. At all. And I generally say that if they can't even make the trailer looking good, what chances does the movie have?

    However, after the Venice film festival standing ovations and rave reviews, I have to admit that I've become quite interested to watch it. Assuming that the mentioned reviews were not part of the marketing trick. Anyway, I am looking forward to see what more people will say here about the movie after watching it.

    I fully agree with the first part. People seem offended that I didn’t like the the trailer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭MOR316


    I fully agree with the first part. People seem offended that I didn’t like the the trailer.

    Welcome to 2019, where lies are the new truth and breathing goes against the #MeToo movement


  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭Ethereal Cereal


    MOR316 wrote: »
    Welcome to 2019, where lies are the new truth and breathing goes against the #MeToo movement

    lul... wut?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭MOR316


    lul... wut?

    Poster said people seem to be offended that he didn't like the trailer.
    Just pointing out that in 2019, everything is offensive and lies are the new truth


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,563 ✭✭✭✭peteeeed




  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭Ethereal Cereal


    MOR316 wrote: »
    Poster said people seem to be offended that he didn't like the trailer.
    Just pointing out that in 2019, everything is offensive and lies are the new truth

    By referencing sexual assault allegations? This is a thread... about a movie...
    :confused:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    peteeeed wrote: »


    You can't really trust The Guardian's reviews. They often seem biased, in this case by the alleged incel cannotations (I note the reviewer deliberately addresses this to state it's not an issue but I suspect the lady doth protest too much).


    I'd trust Donald Clarke's review as an honest assessment of the film itself over the Guardian's, in fact much of media has gone the same way or has just totally sold out in its reviews.


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