Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

B0jangles wrote: »

Francie: Stop Trying To Silence ME

What other purpose would you have in posting that? Only to divert the thread and stop the discussion?

Time to start behaving genuinely and engage with the posts and not the poster maybe?

B0jangles wrote: »

Just a little joke Francie - you accused people of trying to silence you and I was making a lighthearted observation that your posts alone make up almost 10% of a 6000+ post thread.


I thought it was funny

I accused 'some people' of constantly responding the same way, a core of three or four posters. Who seem to do nothing else but take offence against some posters they see as anti-British.

For instance' I posted a serious point last night after an extraordinary day of politics and it was met by one of those posters by an emoji and yet another tired accusation from another of those posters.

I do have a high post count, because I have an interest in the politics of these islands...time for some to get over that.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think I have seen so many deflated MP's as there are now in the Newsnight studio.

The UK is in a strange and very volatile and dangerous place. Incredible really.

Edit, should have been an 'in' instead of 'is'

While politics in the UK is tempestuous at the moment, they're is no evidence that civil order is about to break down.

Hyperbole.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

While politics in the UK is tempestuous at the moment, they're is no evidence that civil order is about to break down.

Hyperbole.

I would certainly be of the opinion that it is at a tipping point.

That is not to say violence of the streets is inevitable but the conditions do exist for it to occur.
There is a dangerous build up of tensions being stoked by, among others, the PM and all it could take is a relatively minor incident to set things off.... or a referendum that returns a Remain vote - all those people who are been fed terms like 'surrender', 'traitors' etc are being primed. Should they explode it won't be pretty.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I would certainly be of the opinion that it is at a tipping point.

That is not to say violence of the streets is inevitable but the conditions do exist for it to occur.
There is a dangerous build up of tensions being stoked by, among others, the PM and all it could take is a relatively minor incident to set things off.... or a referendum that returns a Remain vote - all those people who are been fed terms like 'surrender', 'traitors' etc are being primed. Should they explode it won't be pretty.

I don't think that we live far from the tipping point at any time. When we look at the London riots it was a police killing that set it off, while not a common occurrence, unfortunately not an exceptional one either.

Demonstrations both for and against Brexit have been largely peaceful to date and while the political rhetoric has been ramped up of late and words do matter, they're is no evidence to suggest that political violence is about to break out in the UK.

There are some posters here almost wetting themselves at the prospect of disorder, but it doesn't mean it will happen. The "dangerous state" as they put it.

That hyperbolic nonsense says more about their own prejudices than anything else. And when you see the posters making these claims, it's hard not to put two and two together and get the 4 that is that their Republican leanings are colouring their judgement.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I don't think that we live far from the tipping point at any time. When we look at the London riots it was a police killing that set it off, while not a common occurrence, unfortunately not an exceptional one either.

Demonstrations both for and against Brexit have been largely peaceful to date and while the political rhetoric has been ramped up of late and words do matter, they're is no evidence to suggest that political violence is about to break out in the UK.

There are some posters here almost wetting themselves at the prospect of disorder, but it doesn't mean it will happen. The "dangerous state" as they put it.

That hyperbolic nonsense says more about their own prejudices than anything else. And when you see the posters making these claims, it's hard not to put two and two together and get the 4 that is that their Republican leanings are colouring their judgement.

Some more 'hyperbole' for you. :rolleyes:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-protests-london-riots-unrest-far-right-boris-johnson-no-deal-a9095161.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/brexit-risk-experts-fear-violent-consequences-no-deal-e-u-n1048616

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47806365

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Some more 'hyperbole' for you. :rolleyes:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-protests-london-riots-unrest-far-right-boris-johnson-no-deal-a9095161.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/brexit-risk-experts-fear-violent-consequences-no-deal-e-u-n1048616

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47806365

Actually that last warning from the police illustrates my point. It's from April, 6 months ago. There has been no violence of note since then as far as I'm aware.

So yeah it is hyperbole and you're cheerleader-in-chief for it here.

You might want the UK to go into a state of breakdown, but that doesn't change the facts.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So just ignore the up to date ones. Very good.

I have many family and friends in the UK, I no more want to see this boil over than you do.

The top link refers to a protest that has already taken place and nothing happened.

The second link refers to a no deal Brexit which is very unlikely to happen since the PM is bound to seeking an extension.

You can sleep easy so. The rhetoric won't boil over into violence.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You don't think the rhetoric stepped up a significant notch yesterday? I think you are the minority opinion on that one. The police warning again...

Senior police officers have been calling for politicians and other political figures to avoid worsening tensions with inflammatory language.


That is the man on the ground calling it an 'incredible febrile atmosphere'.

When I point out how irrelevant and out of date the links you provided are, you just ignore. Interesting.

Police are always going to ask for rhetoric to be toned down. They're not meant to be in the business of working people up now are that?

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I don't think that we live far from the tipping point at any time. When we look at the London riots it was a police killing that set it off, while not a common occurrence, unfortunately not an exceptional one either.

Demonstrations both for and against Brexit have been largely peaceful to date and while the political rhetoric has been ramped up of late and words do matter, they're is no evidence to suggest that political violence is about to break out in the UK.

There are some posters here almost wetting themselves at the prospect of disorder, but it doesn't mean it will happen. The "dangerous state" as they put it.

That hyperbolic nonsense says more about their own prejudices than anything else. And when you see the posters making these claims, it's hard not to put two and two together and get the 4 that is that their Republican leanings are colouring their judgement.

The point being that there are already tensions - mainly racial - that have exploded several times already seemingly without warning when in reality they come from an Us Vs Them place and are evident if one pays attention. I worked for many years as a community worker in the East End of London and became very attuned to the undercurrents. Mostly they quietened down but all it took was one spark.

I say this as a historian - what we are seeing is the potential for a perfect storm.

Existing racial tensions were stoked up during the Brexit debate, there is a trope that Leavers are 'racists' (some are, many aren't) or at the least xenophobic. Certainly there is evidence enough that the victory of the Leave side was taken as a licence by some to vent their racism in a very public way. That is dangerous enough by itself.

With the continued characterisation of Remainers as 'traitors' we begin to see extremely divisive politics added to an already volatile mix. It is pointing to people's family, neighbours, colleagues etc and saying THAT person is betraying 'our' country.
The use of the word 'surrender' echos the extreme unionist 'battle cry' of No Surrender - we know what civil turmoil that is linked to.

You said yourself the for/against protests have been 'largely' peaceful. 'Largely' is, to me, a warning.

Now we have a PM casting doubt on the judiciary, when government members are stating the Law is biased it undermines the legitimacy of the rule of law itself. That is a very dangerous road to head off down.

I hope it calms down.

I do not want to see violence on the streets of any part of the UK, but when I see a government who appear to have no problem bringing about the very real possibility of a return to the days of violence in NI - which is part of the UK after all - (it's already started hasn't it) ; A PM being dismissive of death threats against MPs; a continued failure to not only resolve the whole Brexit mess, that failure is being 'blamed' on everyone but the government by the government; a press that is frankly out of control and not even trying to hide their bias; a lack of clear information which is genuinely making the public very afraid; 2 political parties who have stated that should they win a majority in a GE they will ignore the wishes of pretty much half the electorate; a growing view in England that they don't care if the Union breaks up as long as they get out of the EU; Opposition members who on the one hand are saying 'we must stop No Deal at all costs' and on the other hand saying 'but not with the leader of the biggest opposition party as a temporary PM because we don't like him' then honestly - I don't have much hope.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So the atmosphere is feverish? Full of nervous excitment/energy?

Yes, senior police officers are often motivated to call attention to 'nervous energies'

Can't remember what commentator it was, that called attention to British complacency that their society is above breaking down.

We are not at societal breakdown yet but the UK is certainly at a dangerous time for it's politicians and judiciary. The sheer vitriol being directed at them is proof enough of that.

RobMc59 wrote: »

The only excitement here in Birkenhead is for the visit of William and Kate for the official naming of the Sir David Attenborough later today-will I have to fight through the barricades?

Barricades should be erected after the democratic vote of the people was ignored!

They'll never rename our Boaty McBoatface!!!

RobMc59 wrote: »

The only excitement here in Birkenhead is for the visit of William and Kate for the official naming of the Sir David Attenborough later today-will I have to fight through the barricades?

It will ALWAYS be Boaty McBoatface to me

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That's a stupid name for a submarine.

Should have named that Johnpaulgeorgeandringo.

it's yellow as well