Hare today, gone tomorrow.

JohnnyFlash · 24-09-2019 11:30AM #1

I was reading this morning that the presence of a deadly disease that kills rabbits and hares has been confirmed in six counties in Ireland. What's even more worrying is that the counties aren't next to each other, we have cases in Clare in the West, Offaly in the Midlands, Leitrim in the North West, and Wexford in the South East. One could then speculate that the disease is more widespread than we've detected so far.

Is now the time to look at a ban on hare coursing and the shooting of hares? Coursing involves trapping hares so they can be then be chased by greyhounds while fat men in flat caps gamble on the outcome. Shooting hares involves 'lamping', where fat men in wet gear shine high-powered torches to blind hares before blowing their heads off. For sport. Hare is a tough and sinewy meat.

Now you'll meet hunters who say this is part of our heritage. Well so was picking who your daughter would marry, and kissing the ring of a bishop. Blowing the head off a small animal is barbaric, and you should probably find a more satisfying hobby. Do the good people of AH agree?

Dr. Bre · 24-09-2019 11:33AM

Great thread name!

Trigger Happy · 24-09-2019 11:33AM

Does coursing still happen?
I thought it had died a death when the dogs had to be muzzled? Suppose that's just the law which is ignored in a lot of cases?

Thelonious Monk · 24-09-2019 11:34AM

All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.

IAMAMORON · 24-09-2019 11:37AM

As far as I am aware all the hares which are used for the coursing are bred wild on Oyster island off the coast of Rosses Point Golf club. So if that gets contaminated there will be trouble for the coursing.

You either have an issue with blood sports or you don't. I watched the documentary on RTE on Sunday evening about Irish wildlife, it was touching to see the researcher feeding bread to the foxes in a housing estate at midnight. They chase the hares also.

Earthhorse · 24-09-2019 11:38AM

What's your beef with fat men, OP?

Thelonious Monk · 24-09-2019 11:39AM

I dont think wildlife is really compatible with modern ireland

IAMAMORON · 24-09-2019 11:48AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I dont think wildlife is really compatible with modern ireland

I think as long as it is left wild it should be fine. Bats, Rats, Foxes, Newts are natural migrators. They don't have to worry about Free State politics and the border either, they are happy living either of Oghill and don't get too fussed about it, unlike everyone else.

Op, I never knew you were such a watership down junckie, do you sing " bright eyes " in the shower?

Eddie B · 24-09-2019 11:52AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I was reading this morning that the presence of a deadly disease that kills rabbits and hares has been confirmed in six counties in Ireland. What's even more worrying is that the counties aren't next to each other, we have cases in Clare in the West, Offaly in the Midlands, Leitrim in the North West, and Wexford in the South East. One could then speculate that the disease is more widespread than we've detected so far.

Is now the time to look at a ban on hare coursing and the shooting of hares? Coursing involves trapping hares so they can be then be chased by greyhounds while fat men in flat caps gamble on the outcome. Shooting hares involves 'lamping', where fat men in wet gear shine high-powered torches to blind hares before blowing their heads off. For sport. Hare is a tough and sinewy meat.

Now you'll meet hunters who say this is part of our heritage. Well so was picking who your daughter would marry, and kissing the ring of a bishop. Blowing the head off a small animal is barbaric, and you should probably find a more satisfying hobby. Do the good people of AH agree?

Probably not, because most of them like beef burgers, therefore animals heads get blown off in the process, and those who like bean burgers, animals heads get blown off to protect beans which are used to make bean burgers.

Woke Hogan · 24-09-2019 11:55AM

Earthhorse wrote: »

What's your beef with fat men, OP?

I'm not the original poster but I personally find fat men absolutely disgusting to look at especially the middle-aged "salt of the earth" type, even though they're soft as ****e themselves. With massive tits.

I was unfortunate enough to have to sit at a table in a restaurant next to a very overweight man in his late forties and his son after the boy's soccer game on Saturday.

The older man was spraying his son with shards of roast beef slices, telling the boy that he was "too soft" in the game had just played and urged him to "forget all that tippy tappy ****e" and to "get stuck in" more.

This was athletic advice from a man who poured so much gravy over his dinner he could have drank it, and whose stink of stale cigarettes smelled so bad it was probably illegal for him to sit indoors where people were working.

I stole a glance at the boy and he was just staring down at his own plate in shame, especially when his old man was giving him even more grief for not taking a full plate and committing the atrocity of eating moderately.

Many men of this man's vintage love thinking that they're the last stand against the rise of effete snowflakes but examine their own behaviour at home and that's what you'll find. Gluttony. Sitting in front of a television drinking cans and eating takeaways. Smoking fags and gorging on plates of ice creams. Getting up only to take a ****e, scratch their hole or "let one rip." Soft. Soft. Weak men.

The Tetrarch · 24-09-2019 11:57AM

You should not have said "six counties".
The alarm bell has gone off in the media influencing section of an organisation.

topper75 · 24-09-2019 12:01PM

But it is not like there has never been such diseases before. All creatures have to suffer their outbreaks from time to time.
Predators like foxes and pine martens, even domestic cats and dogs, will clean it up and the survivors will get to breed on. And boy, will they breed on.
Predators don't fit into many people's Disney-like narrative on wildlife - but they are essential in any ecosystem.
I have concerns about the removal of pike (a native) from salmonoid fisheries for the same reasons.

Eddie B · 24-09-2019 12:09PM

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I'm not the original poster but I personally find fat men absolutely disgusting to look at especially the middle-aged "salt of the earth" type, even though they're soft as ****e themselves. With massive tits.

I was unfortunate enough to have to sit at a table in a restaurant next to a very overweight man in his late forties and his son after the boy's soccer game on Saturday.

The older man was spraying his son with shards of roast beef slices, telling the boy that he was "too soft" in the game had just played and urged him to "forget all that tippy tappy ****e" and to "get stuck in" more.

This was athletic advice from a man who poured so much gravy over his dinner he could have drank it, and whose stink of stale cigarettes smelled so bad it was probably illegal for him to sit indoors where people were working.

I stole a glance at the boy and he was just staring down at his own plate in shame, especially when his old man was giving him even more grief for not taking a full plate and committing the atrocity of eating moderately.

Many men of this man's vintage love thinking that they're the last stand against the rise of effete snowflakes but examine their own behaviour at home and that's what you'll find. Gluttony. Sitting in front of a television drinking cans and eating takeaways. Smoking fags and gorging on plates of ice creams. Getting up only to take a ****e, scratch their hole or "let one rip." Soft. Soft. Weak men.

Ya think that's bad. I was standing outside a pub yesteday, and there was this fella sitting with his son pissed. Young lad was only ten or eleven at best. Yer man was making the son take mouthfuls of beer and smoke fags. Kept telling him to man up. I would have intetviened, but yer man was skinny.

topper75 · 24-09-2019 12:11PM

Woke Hogan wrote: »

...
Many men of this man's vintage love thinking that they're the last stand against the rise of effete snowflakes ...

Wait... if they are not, who is? :eek:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 24-09-2019 12:25PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

As far as I am aware all the hares which are used for the coursing are bred wild on Oyster island off the coast of Rosses Point Golf club. So if that gets contaminated there will be trouble for the coursing.

Not the case. Individual coursing clubs are licenced to trap Hares in many locations around the country. These are supposed to be returned to the area they were trapped in, but there is a lot of evidence that many are not returned to the right areas.

WB Yokes · 24-09-2019 12:28PM

I like going lamping but we only kill foxes, with the farmers permission to use his land. I wouldn't kill a hare no way.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 24-09-2019 12:29PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I was reading this morning that the presence of a deadly disease that kills rabbits and hares has been confirmed in six counties in Ireland. What's even more worrying is that the counties aren't next to each other, we have cases in Clare in the West, Offaly in the Midlands, Leitrim in the North West, and Wexford in the South East. One could then speculate that the disease is more widespread than we've detected so far.

Is now the time to look at a ban on hare coursing and the shooting of hares? Coursing involves trapping hares so they can be then be chased by greyhounds while fat men in flat caps gamble on the outcome. Shooting hares involves 'lamping', where fat men in wet gear shine high-powered torches to blind hares before blowing their heads off. For sport. Hare is a tough and sinewy meat.

Now you'll meet hunters who say this is part of our heritage. Well so was picking who your daughter would marry, and kissing the ring of a bishop. Blowing the head off a small animal is barbaric, and you should probably find a more satisfying hobby. Do the good people of AH agree?

Why are you pretending you know anything about Irish wildlife? Hare is edible.

What are your hobbies OP? Maybe some here would like to ridicule them. We can decide if they are satisfying or not.

Do you eat? If you do, you're contributing to the destruction of the wildlife you seem so passionate about protecting. Or am I mixing that up with faux outrage.

You want to ban shooting because a disease has been discovered. Where's the logic? Farming, cars and cats are more detrimental to wildlife than hunters. Your agenda is so glaringly obvious, it's pathetic.

Earthhorse wrote: »

What's your beef with fat men, OP?

OP has no real point, he/she just wants something to stop for reasons and does not know how to go about it. So the insults are a filler I guess.

IAMAMORON · 24-09-2019 12:35PM

Hailey Important Self-employment wrote: »

Not the case. Individual coursing clubs are licenced to trap Hares in many locations around the country. These are supposed to be returned to the area they were trapped in, but there is a lot of evidence that many are not returned to the right areas.

Thank you for clarifying. I am correct about there being a hare population on Oyster island though? I am certain I have seen a documentary on this in the past. It is used to breed hares on?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 24-09-2019 12:44PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Thank you for clarifying. I am correct about there being a hare population on Oyster island though? I am certain I have seen a documentary on this in the past. It is used to breed hares on?

Yes, it's managed by a club but purely for coursing.

BattleCorp · 24-09-2019 12:46PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Now you'll meet hunters who say this is part of our heritage. Well so was picking who your daughter would marry, and kissing the ring of a bishop.

I kissed a bishops's ring once when I was a kid. He's in jail for it now.

10pennymixup · 24-09-2019 12:55PM

Eh...what's the name of this disease?

Bob Harris · 24-09-2019 01:11PM

Are you talking about disease or hunting Johnny or just spouting out of your hole?

kneemos · 24-09-2019 01:14PM

10pennymixup wrote: »

Eh...what's the name of this disease?

Rabbit Hemorrhagic Disease.

JohnnyFlash · 24-09-2019 02:10PM

Wells Substantial Flare wrote: »

Why are you pretending you know anything about Irish wildlife? Hare is edible.

What are your hobbies OP? Maybe some here would like to ridicule them. We can decide if they are satisfying or not.

Do you eat? If you do, you're contributing to the destruction of the wildlife you seem so passionate about protecting. Or am I mixing that up with faux outrage.

You want to ban shooting because a disease has been discovered. Where's the logic? Farming, cars and cats are more detrimental to wildlife than hunters. Your agenda is so glaringly obvious, it's pathetic.

OP has no real point, he/she just wants something to stop for reasons and does not know how to go about it. So the insults are a filler I guess.

There's a lot of chewing in this post - rather like eating hare if it hasn't been slow cooked for about a week.

My point is that the Irish hare is a native species. It's a species that we now know is dying due to disease across the country. Hunters often trot out the tired mantra that they are somehow good for keeping the population of a species under control. I'm not here to argue that one. It's the same one bloodhound and national hunt breeders use to justify chasing down a fox for sport.

It's that we now have a disease impacting a native species. Should the sort of people who take pleasure in blinding a hare so they can shoot them dead not come together as a group, and say 'we won't bother shooting them dead until we know how bad this disease is'?

24-09-2019 03:39PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Hunters often trot out the tired mantra that they are somehow good for keeping the population of a species under control. I'm not here to argue that one. It's the same one bloodhound and national hunt breeders use to justify chasing down a fox for sport.

What is this gibberish?

It's not clear whether you don't know what NH means in horseracing, or you're confusing the UK rules on hunter certs with the Irish rules... Why you're blaming NH *breeders* for foxhunting in Ireland is bewildering. It suggests to me that you should stick to discussing matters within the M50 that you have a better chance of understanding.

Also bloodhounds in Ireland hunting foxes??

JohnnyFlash · 24-09-2019 04:23PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

What is this gibberish?

It's not clear whether you don't know what NH means in horseracing, or you're confusing the UK rules on hunter certs with the Irish rules... Why you're blaming NH *breeders* for foxhunting in Ireland is bewildering. It suggests to me that you should stick to discussing matters within the M50 that you have a better chance of understanding.

Also bloodhounds in Ireland hunting foxes??

A True Gael, Tyrant. Perhaps the last man in the country to be born to a Father who spoke nothing only Irish.

I'll admit that my knowledge of the NH rules extend to arriving up to Kilbeggan or Roscommon, and firing on a few quid on whatever is opposing Mullin's French bought 'progressive mare'. You can prattle on about the purity of the stock, but most of the 'leggy stock' in Ireland end up as fox hunters for Catholics who want to be Protestants.

24-09-2019 05:44PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I'll admit that my knowledge of the NH rules extend to arriving up to Kilbeggan or Roscommon, and firing on a few quid on whatever is opposing Mullin's French bought 'progressive mare'. You can prattle on about the purity of the stock, but most of the 'leggy stock' in Ireland end up as fox hunters for Catholics who want to be Protestants.

Johnny most people who ride to hounds in Ireland are not interested in retraining ex racehorses. If you think hunting fields are full of ex racers you are completely mistaken, especially in Ireland moreso than other countries.

You're confusing bloodhounds with foxhounds and making some tenuous link between National Hunt breeders and hunting. There's no such thing as a "progressive" or "leggy" horse either and it is not possible to distinguish a French TB from an Irish one. Here, go back to saving the hares.

EmmetSpiceland · 24-09-2019 07:06PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Johnny most people who ride to hounds in Ireland are not interested in retraining ex racehorses. If you think hunting fields are full of ex racers you are completely mistaken, especially in Ireland moreso than other countries.

You're confusing bloodhounds with foxhounds and making some tenuous link between National Hunt breeders and hunting. There's no such thing as a "progressive" or "leggy" horse either and it is not possible to distinguish a French TB from an Irish one. Here, go back to saving the hares.

You’re either getting fierce defensive or pedantic here, ATNM. Are you a “hunting” man, yourself?

Can’t abide the hare coursing myself, remember the old billboard posters that had the picture of the poor hare about to be torn to “shreds” by the dogs.

I’d say everyone has the view that the old “fox hunt” on horseback was for the upper crust, is it still run? The best thing to come out of that is the paintings you see on some country pub/hotel walls.

It should really have been resigned to history long ago, like visiting the mentally ill in an “asylum” like you would animals in a zoo.

Coursing, cock fighting, dog fighting, and all that “carry on” should be eradicated from the land. “Another attack on rural Ireland”, you may cry but it’s just not on.

As for lamping, and other types of “gun-based” hunting, I’m not a fan. When people talk about “toxic masculinity” these days one of the first groups I, personally, think of is these “hunters”. Lots of “over compensating”, bad fashion, those terrible gilets for example and everyone in that same boxy looking “jeep”.

All best consigned to those lovely paintings I mentioned above.

24-09-2019 07:33PM

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

You’re either getting fierce defensive or pedantic here, ATNM. Are you a “hunting” man, yourself?

I admit to having gotten a little indignant there Emmet but I can't help it. It grates when people propose to make your friends or family redundant and to ban a sport you feel passionate about, on the basis of a clear lack of correct information.

Hunting in Ireland could not happen without the support of farmers and local communities. They support hunting, for the most part, because they understand it. When people understand hunting and how it benefits the countryside as well as the economy and the equine industry, they almost always start to retreat from the reflex reaction that it's a cruel bloodsport.

And all of that nuance is undone when people make brash, false or misleading claims, upon which most reasonable people who've never given it much thought will quite naturally say "Yes it is a cruel game" -- who'd blame them for thinking that?

When they reflect on how it's ultimately less cruel than shooting, and that its eradication would lead to a massive cull of horses and hounds (150,000 hunt caps every season in Ireland), and the fact that hunting is mainly the sport of ordinary farmers and is nothing like its UK counterpart, people often start to open up to the other side of the argument.

Even if they still oppose hunting to hounds, I have respect people who bother to inform themselves on what the arguments are. There is no justification for wishing to put thousands of people out of work and destroy an important industry without doing any basic background check.

In referring to hunting throughout, I should say I mean hunting to hounds. I actually dislike shooting any game - not even foxes, maybe only rats or crows. I'd share some of your own views on that form of hunting.

Irish Guitarist · 24-09-2019 07:36PM

My father used to shoot rabbits although without the aid of dogs. The smell of animal innards around the house was disgusting.

A couple of years ago my brother put a picture on his Facebook page of my older sisters when they were kids and my father posing with a load of dead rabbits in the backyard. In the picture my father is holding up one of the rabbits close to my sisters face. It looks like she's going to kiss the thing. It's a fucking creepy picture.

24-09-2019 11:52PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

My father used to shoot rabbits although without the aid of dogs. The smell of animal innards around the house was disgusting.

A couple of years ago my brother put a picture on his Facebook page of my older sisters when they were kids and my father posing with a load of dead rabbits in the backyard. In the picture my father is holding up one of the rabbits close to my sisters face. It looks like she's going to kiss the thing. It's a fucking creepy picture.

Shooting rabbits was sometimes done out of economic necessity. In some houses, it was the wife's job to shoot rabbits for that reason. I don't agree with shooting rabbits these days but it sounds like your Dad was shooting them for the pot anyway, not as trophies. I don't think anyone would criticise him for that.

Hare today, gone tomorrow.

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