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3 year old not wanting to visit dad (ModNote pst 37)

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  • 11-09-2019 10:30pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    Hi

    So I have a 2 and 3 year old boys. I am not with the mother but there has been disagreements this year and even her mother was having a go.
    Lately the minute I put my boys in the car they want to go back to their mam, then it settles but then when they get tired they are looking to go home. There was 1 or 2 things my 3 year old said recently that made me think are they having inappropriate conversations about me in front of the kids. One comment was when the 3 year old was having a meltdown and said I dont care about him or mommy, it was a very strange comment from him.

    Is this just a phase not wanting to go with me or would it be something deeper? I am trying to be logical and say it's a phase and he wants to be in comfortable surroundings but he is with me every Wednesday and every weekend so my place wouldn't be unusual surroundings to him. Maybe I am reading too much into it, just looking for some views on it.

    Mod Note: HERE


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    #2
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    To me it sounds like your ex and her mother are having conversations that the little fella is hearing.

    It's not right to badmouth the other parent infront of children but unfortunately it does happen.

    If he says it again or similar hug him and reassure him that that's not the case.

    If it happens again maybe have a chat with the ex. Though it's something I'd be wary of as it might escalate the situation.

    You seem to have set days of care so I presume that's court order....if it's just an amicable arrangement I'd be looking at getting it legally binding.


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    #3
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    The only thing I will say here is that if they are mainly living in the mother's home, then they probably see it as 'home".They are so small OP, and they just say what is in their heads and "home" is where they are most familiar with at that age, especially when they are tired-they want their bed and their familiar comforts.I am sorry, I think that particular comment is just their age.

    Best thing you can do otherwise is stay neutral.Unfortunately your ex could be saying all sorts of things, but equally three year olds say all sorts of things too-it's hard to know.


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    #4
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Kids are very simple folks. Try not to put too much wieght into what they are saying. Even if you don't get on with their mother or extended family, keep everything civil, whether or not the kids are around.

    For a kid that young, anywhere could be home. My son is almost 6 and thinks he has 3 homes. Mine, his mothers and her parents.


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thanks for the responses, i am doing as suggested and not taking it to heart and hugging him when he does it.

    Regarding keeping civil i am trying, everytime i am trying to get what is agreed on paper and signed she completely ignores it. i am moving as per changes she has made but i am afraid she will change again, she keeps on throwing about sending her a summons as she will legal aid that way and try to get more money.

    If i have my children around a third of the time what is actually a fair maintenance


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    #6
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I'd hate to be shuffled around the way children are with a joint custody arrangement. Seems so unfair that they have to suit what the parents have agreed and move from one place to another regularly. I'd want to be in one home at that age too.


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'd hate to be shuffled around the way children are with a joint custody arrangement. Seems so unfair that they have to suit what the parents have agreed and move from one place to another regularly. I'd want to be in one home at that age too.

    So what's your solution. Eliminate the father from the equation


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    #8
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'd hate to be shuffled around the way children are with a joint custody arrangement. Seems so unfair that they have to suit what the parents have agreed and move from one place to another regularly. I'd want to be in one home at that age too.

    Yeah having two parents living together constantly fighting is a much healthier solution.

    It's a cr@ppy situation and no one plans for it to end up like that.

    Children are very adaptable and the most important thing is they know that they are loved and wanted.


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    #9
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.


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    #10
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Thanks for the responses, i am doing as suggested and not taking it to heart and hugging him when he does it.

    Regarding keeping civil i am trying, everytime i am trying to get what is agreed on paper and signed she completely ignores it. i am moving as per changes she has made but i am afraid she will change again, she keeps on throwing about sending her a summons as she will legal aid that way and try to get more money.

    If i have my children around a third of the time what is actually a fair maintenance

    Getting her to sign a piece of paper doesn't mean anything. She can claim she did so under duress. Don't be afraid of going through the courts. Initially I did it with a Solicitor and Barister to get close to what I needed. but for anytime I'd been in since, The judge was very much willing to discuss things out.

    It doesn't have to be like that though. Try to see if a family court that's accesible to both of ye offer a mediation service. They can provide someone to advise on practical solutions, or how things usually work out, or what certain items ye are discussing mean. They won't be inclined to take sides however. If the mother is someone who would be sincerly open to a frank and honest discussion, this could be the better way of approaching it. The mediator can then get agreements sent to the court for a judge to finalise it. But she needs to be willing to be involved in that.

    With regards to maintenance. It's not simply down to the proportion of time the kids are with you. Primary residence clearly sounds like it with the mother, so it'll come down to affordability. You'll need to do up an "assessment of means," pretty much an affidavit of your budget. How much you earn, and conditions that could adjust your earnings, then what are your outgoings for rent/mortgage, loans, bills, commuting, clothing, groceries, enterntainment (with the kids). Think about what you've got after that and what you can possibly drop also. Not what you can do after you've paid it.

    Also about keeping civil, if it's difficult, just don't say anything.
    lazygal wrote: »
    The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.

    From my own experience, there were some difficulties for the kid, but they got over it. A break up from the status quo can be very confusing for them and hard to understand. It works a lot easier, if the parents don't go through it in a destructive manner. And you bring the kid through it, by trying to talk with them on it. I never expected him to just bounce into place. As far as he's concerned, my family and her family, are his family.


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    #11
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    lazygal wrote: »
    The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.

    So what's your solution?

    I've seen the damage done by parents living together in a completely toxic relationship. There is no way I'd bring my children up in that!

    Generally speaking the mother gets priority... Why should dad's only get a Sunday lunch spot? Why should they be missing out on quality time with their children.


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It's funny how you hear about the horrible men but rarely hear about the toxic behaviour from mothers. I am dealing with a situation where as long as I was doing house jobs and being overly flexible things were fine but the minute I said no it was passive and direct aggressive behaviour and now provoking me so I take her to court. So she can tell everyone I am the horrible dad who took her to court. Once I refused to be controlled in the name of being amicable and helpful she turned nasty and confrontational. I now realise amicable doesnt work and a clear cut access and maintenance with no flexibility is the only way

    She drove her ex husband to be suicidal and now he has zero contact with his daughter. Its amazing how.much this behaviour goes on without being called out for narcissism it is cos everyone seems to think narcissism is a Male phenomenon


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    #13
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    It's in everyone's interest to have clear cut access in place.

    You sound like a decent loving father.

    Don't bad mouth the mother in front of the children or in their company.

    Try to keep everything civil.

    Children can come out with some mad stuff so don't take it personally.

    I think once the child reaches 10 they get to decide if they want to live with a particular parent.

    I agree the mother isn't always the best choice of parent but it's usually the way the court goes unless there is real fear for children's safety.


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    #14
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Princess Calla wrote: »
    lazygal wrote: »
    The old "children are very adaptable" excuse. Surely there's some better way to organise access without making children stay where they don't feel comfortable.

    So what's your solution?

    I've seen the damage done by parents living together in a completely toxic relationship. There is no way I'd bring my children up in that!

    Generally speaking the mother gets priority... Why should dad's only get a Sunday lunch spot? Why should they be missing out on quality time with their children.
    I've seen the damage done when children are shuttled around because of custody agreements when they don't want to leave their primary home but have to pack up anyway. I don't have a solution. I'm thinking of how the children feel having to move around like this. I know my middle child in particular would never want to pitch up to a different place every weekend or whatever and if he was getting upset about it that's clearly not a child centred approach.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazygal wrote: »
    I've seen the damage done when children are shuttled around because of custody agreements when they don't want to leave their primary home but have to pack up anyway. I don't have a solution. I'm thinking of how the children feel having to move around like this. I know my middle child in particular would never want to pitch up to a different place every weekend or whatever and if he was getting upset about it that's clearly not a child centred approach.

    Clearly you did not read the original post clearly.

    Maybe put yourself in my shoes and see how it would feel. Knowing you are being bad mouthed in front of your child, having a grandmother scream and abuse you while dropping off your child and when I approached the mother on it I was told to send her a summons. So I suppose the mother is always right cos thats clear provocation

    As I said it was all rosy when I was doing as she asked and then that got abused by asking for more and more,to the point of house maintenance, shopping etc.

    And I have also seen damage done to children by emotional abuse by the mother in making the child feel guilty about enjoying going to their das to the point of the children taking the easy option to not want to go to the dad


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Princess Calla wrote: »
    It's in everyone's interest to have clear cut access in place.

    You sound like a decent loving father.

    Don't bad mouth the mother in front of the children or in their company.

    Try to keep everything civil.

    Children can come out with some mad stuff so don't take it personally.

    I think once the child reaches 10 they get to decide if they want to live with a particular parent.

    I agree the mother isn't always the best choice of parent but it's usually the way the court goes unless there is real fear for children's safety.

    Thanks for the kind words
    It's very tough when someone is deliberately manipulating the situation for their own selfish ego/needs.


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    #17
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Thanks for the kind words
    It's very tough when someone is deliberately manipulating the situation for their own selfish ego/needs.

    Expect fireworks when you get a new girlfriend. Make sure everything is legally binding before then.

    Just remember there are two sweet children in the middle of all this. They deserve the best!

    You can't change her behaviour but you can change your reaction.... Easier said than done admittedly.

    Good luck


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    #18
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Princess Calla wrote: »
    Yeah having two parents living together constantly fighting is a much healthier solution.

    It's a cr@ppy situation and no one plans for it to end up like that.

    Children are very adaptable and the most important thing is they know that they are loved and wanted.

    Children aren’t really that adaptable at all. Children like going to bed night after night in the same house and knowing that you are “loved and wanted” should be a given and not something that you need to be grateful for.
    The children’s father is essential in their lives and the parents should bend over backwards to accommodate both parents spending time with the children in their own home.


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    #19
    noel1980
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭noel1980


    You sound like a good solid lad and if you don't mind me saying, your ex sounds like a total bitch.

    Don't listen or pay attention to people like lazygal.

    As soon as they see a thread like this they hop on and start to spew their man-hating. They can't help it.

    Stay strong horse


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    #20
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Deleted User wrote: »
    lazygal wrote: »
    I've seen the damage done when children are shuttled around because of custody agreements when they don't want to leave their primary home but have to pack up anyway. I don't have a solution. I'm thinking of how the children feel having to move around like this. I know my middle child in particular would never want to pitch up to a different place every weekend or whatever and if he was getting upset about it that's clearly not a child centred approach.

    Clearly you did not read the original post clearly.

    Maybe put yourself in my shoes and see how it would feel. Knowing you are being bad mouthed in front of your child, having a grandmother scream and abuse you while dropping off your child and when I approached the mother on it I was told to send her a summons. So I suppose the mother is always right cos thats clear provocation

    As I said it was all rosy when I was doing as she asked and then that got abused by asking for more and more,to the point of house maintenance, shopping etc.

    And I have also seen damage done to children by emotional abuse by the mother in making the child feel guilty about enjoying going to their das to the point of the children taking the easy option to not want to go to the dad

    It's called parental alienation. It is extremely common and has now been recognised as child abuse in many countries. Not Ireland yet.


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    #21
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    noel1980 wrote: »
    You sound like a good solid lad and if you don't mind me saying, your ex sounds like a total bitch.

    Don't listen or pay attention to people like lazygal.

    As soon as they see a thread like this they hop on and start to spew their man-hating. They can't help it.

    Stay strong horse
    So man hating I'm married to a man and have two sons. What a silly post!


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    #22
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Children aren’t really that adaptable at all. Children like going to bed night after night in the same house and knowing that you are “loved and wanted” should be a given and not something that you need to be grateful for.
    The children’s father is essential in their lives and the parents should bend over backwards to accommodate both parents spending time with the children in their own home.

    In this case being loved and wanted is not a given.... The mother is being a vindictive c@w and telling her children that their dad doesn't care about them or their mommy.... To be honest I'd say she's 50% correct.

    These type of stories really p1ss me off. A child is not a pawn to be used to get back at your ex.

    Grow up, act like an adult and put your children first!


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    #23
    noel1980
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭noel1980


    lazygal wrote: »
    So man hating I'm married to a man and have two sons. What a silly post!


    This man cannot see his kids and he's reaching out to the community. This is not about you.

    I detect serious man-hatey vibes from you! You may not realize it because your mainly female co-workers continuously validate and re-enforce your worldview. Please stop sabotaging this fella's thread. You're happily married? Good for you. This is not the case for this man and he's reaching out. Have some empathy ffs.


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    #24
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    noel1980 wrote: »
    lazygal wrote: »
    So man hating I'm married to a man and have two sons. What a silly post!


    This man cannot see his kids and he's reaching out to the community. This is not about you, ok?
    This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.


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    #25
    noel1980
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭noel1980


    lazygal wrote: »
    This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.


    That's your opinion. Some children love going on road trips and having two homes. Every child is different.

    I'm sure he's not perfect either, but he's the one who started this thread and he reached out asking for advice. At least just have some empathy. Maybe start by saying "I'm sorry to hear about that, it must be rough not being able to see your kids". Give it a try.

    Seriously. give it a try.


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    #26
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    lazygal wrote: »
    This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

    I’m with you on this. 15 years of experience and 8 times out of 10 there’s at least one good reason why a father isn’t getting to see his kids.


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    noel1980 wrote: »
    This man cannot see his kids and he's reaching out to the community. This is not about you.

    I detect serious man-hatey vibes from you! You may not realize it because your mainly female co-workers continuously validate and re-enforce your worldview. Please stop sabotaging this fella's thread. You're happily married? Good for you. This is not the case for this man and he's reaching out. He doesn't need you bringing in your decisive vibes.

    Hi Noel

    Thanks for the comments. I think you read it a bit wrong, i do see my kids, however the ex is really provoking situations to drive me to take her to court. To what end i can only assume she wants more money. Its become very toxic and even collecting them has become toxic. What i have noticed is the kids are only acting like this since the latest downturn in the 'amicable' relationship.

    The ex is very transactional and manipulative. If you met her you would think i was the biggest Pr**k in the world and then after a while you'd realise theres a lot more to it. She seems to switch friends a lot which tells people fall for the victim and hard done by sympathy card until she eventually falls out with them.

    She has a certain cohort wrapped around her finger but most others have seen the light.

    It was only when my friends and family left enough time pass (when they knew we wouldnt be getting back together) that they really spoke their minds about what they saw as manipulation and a massive entitlement ego.

    Anyway as i said it was all fine when i was bowing to her commands which got more and more demanding and full on that i had to take a step back and now realise this was always going to happen. It was so ridiculous i was getting daily calls about every difficulty in her life and trying to get me to solve it, from asking me to get her a sliced pan on the way home from work to ringing about her holiday pay from work. it eventually led to me returning to my car with 8 missed calls and a message to ring as soon as i can. It was a personal matter not related to the kids but i was already around the corner from her house as i couldnt get through and thought something happened my kids. That made me re-evaluate and take a step back to create clear acceptable boundaries, as soon as i stopped taking her calls and stopped bowing to her unacceptable demands she got way nastier and i even noticed situations being blown out of proportion on the phone as other people were listening in. She even called my mam and was trying to frighten her about court.

    i just want her to go by what was agreed, only discuss things about the kids and be polite in front of the kids. She has reneged on most things agreed at this stage and i am getting replies to send her a summons. Trying to deal with someone like this is extremely draining and also daunting/overwhelming that i have 15-18 years of dealing with her and her watching anything nice i may get.


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    #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazygal wrote: »
    This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

    totally agree and the his story and hers is normally from his or her own interpretations, but i can assure you i am dealing with a different beast here. THere is a lot of issues surrounding her own family, neighbours and ex husband that does not paint a pretty picture. When all her battles were coming to an end with her own family, she turned on. At this stage she is a veteran of court and i have never been inside one and have no clue what to expect. I wont get into her insane arguments shes had with other people but trust me its insane and sad at the same time


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I’m with you on this. 15 years of experience and 8 times out of 10 there’s at least one good reason why a father isn’t getting to see his kids.

    I am seeing my kids, go back and read the thread. She is provoking to get me to send her a summons. She is on legal aid so shes on a waiting list, if she provokes enough for a summons from me, i have to pay and then she gets an earlier appointment. She is looking for more money cos as it is i have my kids about 30-35% of the time. She wants absolute control on every situation, i pick them up and drop them off at her house, then she wants me to pick them up and drop them off from her holiday home which is an hour away in the summer. Yes that expensive holiday home for someone who works 2 days a week, i'll let you make your own assumption on that one


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    #30
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    splinter65 wrote: »
    lazygal wrote: »
    This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

    I’m with you on this. 15 years of experience and 8 times out of 10 there’s at least one good reason why a father isn’t getting to see his kids.
    It's always a massive red flag when a man or woman needs to list a host of crazy ex things on a public forum. But mostly it's men who do this and seem to think everyone else buys their narrative. Meanwhile the kids just want to be in their home, sleeping in their beds and in their own routine. As an adult I'd hate to have to stay elsewhere every week or month. Why do we expect children to put up with this.


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazygal wrote: »
    This man is presenting his side of the story. I've heard all these "crazy ex" stories a million times. There's two versions of every story and then there's the truth, which is that it is unfair to make a child shuttle between households to suit the parents.

    And again, there was never an issue going between houses until i took a step back.The kids were always bouncing into the car, it has changed dramatically since that time and yes this is my side of the story, but i have enough messages to back my side of the argument up


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